True origins of the Illuminati.....

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posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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wouldn't it make sense for the illuminati to let information about themselves slip out?


Not particularly sensible, the best secret is the one that nobody knows exists. There is enough paranoia in the World without needing to disseminate half-truths in order to cover whole-truths.


they shall take everything that that we hold sacred


By "we" I assume that you mean "I". You are promulgating a rather one-sided view. It may be that many people would agree with the "taking". There is no evidence of doctrine to diagnose and so a prognosis cannot be obtained.


people would uprise


Nobody would "uprise". Nobody has "uprisen". We have seen the "rape" of the Natural World in the last half-century and yet the vast majority of the Western World sit on their collective backside whilst the remaining "3rd World" attempts to emulate the pollutive and morally corrupt economies of "G7".

The Illuminati as it is spoken of within these pages is nothing more than a reflection of the the "sheep" rather than the "wolves". The next "World Order" will be born of decimation not desiccation. As morality dries up we will see a general decline and malaise effect nations, but history shows that NO major political upheaval, whether driven from above or below, is precipitated without physical confrontation. We are still chimps after all!


satan has been tampering with humans


"Satan" is a euphamisn developed approximately 1000BC-700BC specifically for the purpose of the unification of the texts of the Northern and Southern tribes of Israel and Judah. Satan does not exist in the conventional sense of horned beast with perma-tan and pointed tail, Unless you believe the ravings of a couple of Dominicans written in 1486 for the (rather ironically named) Pope Innocent VIII.

The polarisation of "Good" and "Evil" is perfectly natural, and the embodiment of each in a "super being" as "God" and "Devil" is understandable, however, no "tampering" is required to guarantee the decline of man I can assure you. It won't be for a few thousand years yet but when it does come, "God" won't shed a tear and the "Devil" won't be dancing.


most are actual people


As opposed to pretend people who have nothing better to do with their special powers than create vast hamburger chains and capitalist empires built on coffee shops.


But it becomes feasible when you realize who's behind it


It is even more feasible when you realise that ordinary people are behind it. Especially if you have ever worked in an large organization. The World's problems are caused by incompetance and stupidity. Bravado and Bullsh*t. Not Devils. New World Order? You still don't even know who "they" are, but "they" do, and they will never tell you.




posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 03:46 PM
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well, i had said, "people would uprise...hopefully," i never said of it as definitive. either way, in regards to the counterpoints you had otherwise made, people will never agree with each other. really, it's all about who speaks the loudest in the arguement, never who has the most sense behind them, yet what is sense? what is fact? what is fiction? our lives mainly revolve around ourselves, to prove to ourselves that we exist, and find any tidbit of information that suits our point of views, while completely disregarding other information...of course, this is only opinion. perhaps life itself is an opinion which the individual thought of? who knows. what has logic done for us? nothing in this realm is clearly defined or explained, although just having blind faith hasn't done much for civilization either. people will continue to butt heads, proclaiming "proof" and "truth." but whatever, i'm only speaking in regards to myself, to justify my own point of view, rather than your own...quite selfish, eh? oh well, i'll just tell my doctor i contracted "humanity"



posted on Apr, 16 2004 @ 04:34 PM
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Your response is considered and well proposed. You also (perhaps unwittingly) mention a thesis for humanity that is pivotal to the actions of "those who are not known". I use that rather dramatic phrase for want of a better term. The Illuminati they are not. Everything started with 0, not the number but the notion. Then 1, 2 and 3. Understanding of "the" triad would be all the unknown Illuminati could hope for, and all the real Illuminati will never have.



posted on Apr, 19 2004 @ 08:08 AM
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What exactly are you referring to with the term triad?
You lost me there.



posted on Apr, 20 2004 @ 02:19 PM
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The "triad" in the context proposed refers to the "power" sequence of 3. This is usually denoted as 3^n where, for the purposes of simpliciity in this illustration, n could be any positive number integer.

3^0 = 1
3^1 = 3
3^2 = 9 (3x3)
3^3 = 27 (3x3x3)
3^4 = 81 (3x3x3x3)

...and so on.

To the neophyte and initiate, this sequence has significance. As I mentioned once before, the sum of the 1st 3 powers gives 13. 1 + 12 may be familiar? The sum of the 1st 4 powers gives 40. Familiar with the Bible? Venus? 5 powers gives 121 which is a completed square (11^2). Structurally, it is often reflected in the hiearchical levels of countless esoteric organisations (including the Biblical disciples).

The triad is not necessarily mystical in itself, it is believed by some to act as a route map, showing the "autobahns", if you will. A map is a reflection of that which already exists rather than a precursor and cause of it. However, the significance of the sequence and inordinant references to numbers we see every day indicates a certain "resonance".

That it should be "3" is certainly a resonant factor. The Trinity? Remember that these numbers are shown as base 10, and care should be taken to avoid the base specific significance.

This may all seem pretty banal, however, the symbolism of this sequence and a myriad of other natrual formations taken from this sequence (e.g. 13, 40 etc.) is important in understanding that it represent THE primary route marker for ALL belief systems, especially THE primary belief system that evolved from the application of Arithmancy to it.



posted on Dec, 29 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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The people you want to know about history is outline in depth in
The Biggest secret by David Icke



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by GLeamer
The people you want to know about history is outline in depth in
The Biggest secret by David Icke


You cant believe everything just because it was written by David Icke. I will admit that the bloodline claim is interesting to look into, but breeding with reptilians?? abit bizzare for me



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 06:37 AM
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Originally posted by sigung86

Originally posted by valnrick
has anyone read the illuminatus trilogy. books:
The eye in the pyramid
The Golden Apple
Leviathan


Good ol' Robert Anton Wilson! Great stuff, brilliant spoof.


To quote Mr Wilson in an interview once when asked about the Illuminatus Trilogy... "So many people regard the whole series as MERELY satire that I now find myself, like Bernard Shaw, forced to repeat over and over that the biggest joke is that I'm completely serious."

I would recommend, no, FORCE the Illuminatus Trilogy on anybody who wishes to learn something



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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right let clear this up for once and for all, i will have a chat with SimonGray and Co to see about setting up a huge illuminati research project for 2005. I mean huge, like the biggest research project ATS has ever seen. Not just website information, books, guests and on site investigations



posted on Dec, 30 2004 @ 10:58 AM
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Orignal Members of the Bavarian Illuminati

Baader, Professor
Babo, Professor
Badorifer ("Livius")
Baierhamer ("Zoroaster" or "Confucius")
Bahrdt, Clergyman
Bajerhamer
Balderbusch, F. H.
Bart, Professor
Baron Bassus-in-Sandersdorf ("Hannibal")
Berger, Counsellor ("Cornelius Scipio")
Bode, F. H. ("Amelius")
Johann J. C. Bode
Braun, Canon
Burzes, Priest
Busche, F. H. ("Bayrd")
Baron de Busch
Constanza, Marquis de ("Diomedes")
Cossandey, Professor
Dachsel
Danzer, Canon
Dietrich (Mayor of Strasbourg)
Dilling, Counsellor
Dillis, Abbe
Drexi, Librarian
Adrien Duport
Ecker, Count ("Saladin")
Fischer, Magistrate
Frauenberger, Baron
Gaspar, Merchant ("Tycho Brahe")
Saint Germain
Johann Wolfgang Goethe (1749-1832) ("Abaris")
Grunberger, Professor
Gunsheim, Count
Hertel, Canon ("Marius")
Hochinaer
Hoffstetter, Surveyor of Roads
Kaitner, Lieutenant
Kapfinger ("Thales")
Knigge, Adolph Franz Friedrich Ludwid Baron Von ("Philo")
Kreitmaier, Prince
Kundi, Professor
Kundler, Professor
Lange ("Tamerlane")
Leiberhauer, Priest
Losi ("Ludovicus Bavarus")
Lowling, Professor
Massenhausen, Count Hertel Poltroon Mandl ("Ajax") (treasurer)
Mauvillon, Colonel
Meggenhoff, Paymaster ("Sulla")
Baron Mengenhofen ("Sylla")
Michel ("Timon")
Mirabeau, Count Gabriel Riqueti (1749-1791) ("Cornelius Scipio")
Morausky, Count
Morgellan, Count
Christop Friedrich Nicholai (1733-1811) ("Lucian") (Bookseller)
Orleans, Duke.
Ow, Major
Tallyrand de Perigord (Abbe)
Johann Heinrich ("Henry") Pestalozzi (1746-1827) ("Alfred")
Pfelt ("Cicero")
Pfruntz, Priest
Renner, Professor
Rothschild
Sauer ("Attila")
Savioli, Count ("Brutus")
Baron von Schroeckenstein ("Mahomed")
Seefeld, Count
Socher, School Inspector ("Hermes Trismegistus")
Steger ("Shaftesbury")
Strobi, Bookseller
Torring, Count
Tropponero, Zuschwartz ("Coriolanus")
Utschneider, Professor
Vachency, Councellor
Adam Weishaupt, Professor ("Spartacus")
Werner, Counsellor
Westenrieder, Professor ("Pythagoras")
Wortz, Apothecary
Kirchenrat Karl Kasimir Wundt (1744-1784) ("Raphael")
(the grandfather of Wilhelm Wundt)
Zwack, Herr von (Lawyer) ("Cato")

www.biblebelievers.org.au...



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by tututkamen
Occultists in the late 1700's were told by Francis Bacon that the new North American Continent was to be established as a New Atlantis.


It was "Francis Bacon's novel The New Atlantis (1620)".

I felt compelled to bump this thread, it wasn't difficult considering the research project part.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light


the illuminutties go back to the days of Mystery babylon school


That's highly unlikely (actually it's impossible). The Illuminati were founded for the purpose of gathering men who accepted the Enlightenment, which did not occur until the 18th century. Even the very name "Illuminati" refers to the Enlightenment.
The Babylonian Mysteries were a much different story; they too accepted the principles of science, but their doctrines were much more primitive and superstitious.
As an aside, the most famous priest of the Babylonian Mysteries was actually not even a Babylonian; it was the Hebrew prophet Daniel (see Daniel 5:11-12).

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 22-3-2004 by Masonic Light]


sorry but i believe that is the babylonian queen speaking of daniel to the king. Of course she would have her own interpretation. in no way was Daniel in the mysteries, and always credited the visions interpretation to God (like all prophets).



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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I like the idea of doing a large research project on it. If you've started one, could you show me the link to it as I couldn't find it.

Thank you.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 03:57 AM
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Don't tell me...
The only restrictions are:
1) The origins were DEFINITELY 1776.
2) No one used a fake name (Weishaupt a real name?
)
3) No suggestion of their involvement with the magickal occult.

Right, and the research project ends with some guy who just HAPPENED to get struck by lightning? No, that info was leaked....


Only what they wanted people to know, so it could be 'put a stop to'. Seemingly.



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 04:21 AM
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From WikipediaSince Illuminati literally means 'enlightened ones' in Latin, it is natural that several unrelated historical groups have identified themselves as Illuminati. Often, this was due to claims of possessing gnostic texts or other arcane information not generally available.

The designation illuminati was also in use from the 15th century, assumed by enthusiasts of another type, who claimed that the illuminating light came, not by being communicated from an authoritative but secret source, but from within, the result of exalted consciousness, or "enlightenment".


en.wikipedia.org...

The enlightened ones. It don't sound so bad does it.



The Bavarian Illuminati
History
A short-lived movement of republican freethinkers, the most radical offshoot of the Enlightenment -to whose adherents the name Illuminati was given (but who called themselves "Perfectibilists")- was founded on May 1, 1776 by the ex-Jesuit Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), professor of canon law, and Baron Adolph von Knigge, in Ingolstadt, Bavaria (now Germany). The group has also been called the Illuminati Order, the Order of the Illuminati, and the Bavarian Illuminati.

In the conservative state of Bavaria, where the progressive and enlightened elector Maximilian III Joseph von Wittelsbach was succeeded (1777) by his conservative heir Karl Theodor, and which was dominated by the Roman Catholic Church and the aristocracy, such an organization did not last long before it was suppressed by the powers that be. In 1784, the Bavarian government banned all secret societies including the Illuminati and the Freemasons. The structure of the Illuminati soon collapsed, but while it was in existence many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members.

Its members, drawn primarily from Masons and former Masons, pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes: the first, known as the Nursery, encompassed the ascending degrees or offices of Preparation, Novice, Minerval and Illuminatus Minor; the second, known as the Masonry, consisting of the ascending degrees of Illuminatus Major and Illuminatus dirigens, the latter also sometimes called Scotch Knight; the third, designated the Mysteries, was subdivided into the degrees of the Lesser Mysteries (Presbyter and Regent) and those of the Greater Mysteries (Magus and Rex). Relations with masonic lodges were established at Munich and Freising in 1780.

The order had its branches in most countries of the European continent, but its total numbers never seem to have exceeded two thousand. The scheme had its attraction for literary men, such as Goethe and Herder, and even for the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar. Internal rupture preceded its downfall, which was effected by an edict of the Bavarian government in 1785.

Cultural effect
Despite the organization's lifespan, the Bavarian Illuminati have cast a long shadow in popular history, thanks to the writings of their opponents. The lurid allegations of conspiracy theory that have colored the image of the Freemasons have practically opaqued that of the Illuminati. In 1797 Abbé Augustin Barruél published Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism outlining a vivid conspiracy theory involving the Knights Templars, the Rosicrucians, the Jacobins and the Illuminati. Simultaneously and independently, a Scottish Mason and professor of natural history named John Robison started to publish Proofs of a Conspiracy Against all the Religions and Governments of Europe in 1798. When he saw the similar work done by Barruél, he included large quotes from the latter's work. Robison claimed to present evidence of an Illuminati conspiracy striving to replace all religions and nations with humanism and a single world government, respectively.

More recently, Antony C. Sutton suggested that the secret society Skull and Bones was founded as the American branch of the Illuminati. Others think Scroll and Key has Illuminati origins, as well. Robert Gillete has claimed that these Illuminati ultimately intend to establish a world government through assassination, bribery, blackmail, the control of banks and other financial powers, the infiltration of governments, and by causing wars and revolution to move their own people into higher positions in the political hierarchy.

Thomas Jefferson, on the other hand, claimed they intended to spread information and the principles of true morality. He attributed the secrecy of the Illuminati to what he called "the tyranny of a despot and priests".

Both seem to agree that the enemies of the Illuminati were the monarchs of Europe and the Church. Barruél claimed that the French revolution (1789) was engineered and controlled by the Illuminati through the Jacobins, and later conspiracy theorists have also claimed their responsibility for the Russian Revolution (1917), although the order was officially shut down in 1790. Very few historians give credence to these views; they regard such claims as the products of overfertile imaginations.

Illuminati after 1790
Several sources suggest that the Bavarian Illuminati survived, and perhaps even exist today. Conspiracy theorists highlight the link between the Illuminati and Freemasonry. It is also suggested that the United States' founding fathers – some being Freemasons – were rife with corruption from the Illuminati. Often the symbol of the all-seeing pyramid in the Great Seal of the United States is cited as an example of the Illuminati's ever-present watchful eye over Americans.

The truth is probably much more mundane. The United States' seal has never been a Masonic or Illuminati symbol. Its design was submitted by Pierre Du Simitiere to the committee of Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams. Of the four, only Franklin was a Freemason, but his ideas for design were not accepted by the committee. The all-seeing eye was a classical symbol of the time, but the eye atop a pyramid seems to be an invention of Du Simitiere, and approved by the committee.

Very little reliable evidence can be found to support that Weishaupt's group survived into the 19th Century. However, several groups have used the infamy of the Illuminati since to found their own rites, claiming to be the Illuminati, including the Ordo Illuminatorum, Die Alten Erleuchteten Seher Bayerns, The Illuminati Order, and others.


Interesting, don't ya think???

Does this mean that if you become enlightened, you become part of the Illuminati???

[edit on 13/4/05 by Hunting Veritas]



posted on Apr, 13 2005 @ 06:55 AM
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a research project is going on into secret societies and the illuminati will feature in it. If you are interested, U2U me. Read through the thread in the research section to find out more.



posted on Apr, 20 2005 @ 09:42 PM
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Im a latecomer to this thread but I want to make a few points. First of all after reading Dan Brown's books I did some research on the illumanati and masons, knights templar, and others. I was under the impression that the primary masonic lodges (thru 1940) had only three degrees, none of which had anything to do with "Rosicrucian" Ill get back on the names.

This is a real person, so don't ask me for a link.


Also, about the leak thing. I no of no "secret" thing, be it organisation, product, knoweledge or something else, that has never had an info leak. Its human nature to make mistakes. Besides, if the Illuminati never made any such mistakes we wouldn't know they existed would we



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 01:20 AM
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I think part of the cover-up conspiracy about them, if there really is one (and if they'd truly exist), is people sticking up to the pattern of always refering to the Bavarian Illuminati, Weishaupt and 1776 when it comes to tell anything about their origins, while there's historical evidence that the group has existed since the 16th century, and elsewhere in Europe than Bavaria. The Bavarian Illuminati is just, straight and simple, the Bavarian branch of the Illuminati, and NOT the Illuminati as a whole. It's not the first illuminist lodge and not the last.. it's jsut that it's the only one that was really disclosed to the public.



posted on Apr, 21 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
while there's historical evidence that the group has existed since the 16th century, and elsewhere in Europe than Bavaria.

What evidence is that? Actual illuminati or groups that were interested in 'light' and whatnot?



posted on Apr, 22 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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There is evidence of the Bavarian Illuminati, but there is no other evidence pointing to other illuminati groups.






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