Proving The Existance Of God Cannot Be Done, Stop Trying

Prove that none of reality exists. If you can't, then you have found "God". Congratulations.

[edit on 8/8/2008 by Spoodily]

Here are 45 research articles (downloadable PDFs) that provide rigorous, irrefutable mathematical evidence for the existence of a transcendental intelligence that is the ultimate source of the sacred geometries of various world religions.

smphillips.8m.com...

By establishing a remarkable isomorphism between the Tree of Life (Otze Chiim), its inner form, the I Ching table of 64 hexagrams, the Sri Yantra, the five Platonic solids, and the Catalan solid called the disdyakis triacontahedron (in particular, see Article 40), the following question is raised: how can sacred geometries, which originated in countries thousands of miles apart and at times separated by thousands of years, display the same mathematical pattern unless they had the same origin, namely, the Mind of God? Furthermore, how can these geometries be proven to embody the group-theoretical structure of E8 and E8xE8, the two symmetry groups at the heart of superstring theory, unless this theory is actually part of the divine paradigm? The rationalist can explain away such a high degree of correlation only by suggesting that it is due to chance. A thorough study of Dr Phillips' research will reveal that this proposal is absurd, requiring the conjunction of a huge number of coincidences whose occurrences are so improbable that they would amount to believing in a miracle. Hence, the atheist or rationalist can either take a position that is anathema to him, namely, believing in miracles of chance, or else he has to admit that Dr Phillips has provided substantial evidence establishing a prima facie case for the existence of God, Whose nature has been represented in the sacred geometries of Jewish Kabbalah, Hindu Tantra and Chinese Taoism.

reply to post by TruthParadox


Hello

I can nod and smile at your perception of GOD.

Study Nassim Haramein IMHO the new Einstein. Read all of his peer reviews and papers and come back we talk about GOD.


BR
PPL

Originally posted by TruthParadox
Imagine using a computer to calculate a random number from 1 to 1 billion. say you got the number 200. You could say that the odds are extremely low that you got the number 200. However, if you look at the whole picture, the odds will be extremely low given any outcome.

Only problem is that most Random number generator software isn't actually "random", so in this situation the number 200 would have a much higher chance to appear than any other number.

Basically it appears to be random until you find out how it gets the number.
All outcomes are based on some kind of data.

Reminds me of this comic:


Also, how does ''our surroundings'' count as proof of the existence of God?
If God can create anything whenever he wants, proof would seem to me to be undeniable evidence that someone or something has this feat as well, and the only undeniable evidence that someone has the same feat would be to watch that person perform the feat.

Until you see God actually performing this *poof* creation feat you have no proof that he actually created it.

I could claim that I am God and show you the earth as my proof, but what does that proof about me creating what anyone claimed God to have created? Nothing.

[edit on 8/8/08 by -0mega-]

For those that believe in God no explanation (proof) is necessary. For those that do not believe in God no explanation (proof) is possible.

Originally posted by PPLwakeUP
Hello

Yes it can.

This is GOD
















theresonanceproject.org...

64 tetrahedron topological structure, based on a fractal growth of cubeoctahedrons or vector equilibriums, is fundamental to Haramein's Unification Theory.

BR
PPL

Three cheers for Metatron! Hip hip hurray! Hip hip hurray! Hip hip hurray!

Originally posted by AlexG141989

Proving The Existance Of God Cannot Be Done, Stop Trying

Why should anyone stop trying to prove the existence of anything?

What are you afraid of?

If there is no God then there is nothing to be concerned about.

Faith is meant to be evidenced that is its purpose, otherwise why have any faith in anything?

I disagree with you completely the things of God can absolutely without question be proven, and have been by untold millions and million of people since it all began, you just reject their witness as evidence.

People draw comfort to their conscience away from their denial by saying to themselves things such as, "faith is belief in something that can't be proven," as if it is true because they read it in the dictionary, but they conveniently ignore the idea around the purpose of faith, that is it is to be evidenced.

At what point does the evidence become sufficient to qualify as proof, that should be the real question?

I don't know if it holds true across every religion, but I do know that the major religions recognize a common command to each of their faithful by their professed Deity, which is to "PROVE" Him and all things related to the spirit.

The truth is God challenges all people to, "PROVE," Him, because He knows what will happen if you try.

You can take that in any interpretation of religion you like.

If God exists, why wouldn't He want every human being to have proof of His existence?

There are certain universal governing laws of reality which any person can learn and apply to manifest for themselves supernatural miraculous power.

For instance what God normally has me do, when the occasion presents itself, is perform miracles for people.

I have done this more times than I can count.

You may say, "Well that isn't evidence of anything," and you would be correct, but you would also be incorrect at the same time.

My performing a miracle may not be evidence for you, but it is certainly evidence for me, because I am the one performing the exhibition of supernatural miraculous power, and I know that it is not being done by magic or any scientific device or method.

No one is ever going to prove or dis-prove to another person anything to do with God, but the individual person not only can, "PROVE," the existence of God and the spiritual for themselves, but they are challenged to do just that by God Himself, regardless of what religious label your God has been slapped with.

To demand that people stop trying to do what God commands they should do, to me shows clearly, that while it may not be a conscious conspiracy against God, people are being manipulated to strive against His commonly accepted and universally recognized will.

Who are we that we should stand against God?

"Moreover, in earnest dire warning you must not confess that this Knowledge is real against the protestations of those who will not believe that man proceeded from The Lord’s Almighty Heavenly presence; condemnant quod non intellegunt - know that only the vanity of the mind may be served in futile argument and such is The Gift that it cannot be taken or given by spoken word alone but awarded only after patient and honourable study of wisdom and so bestowed by The Grace of God."

reply to post by dunwichwitch

Originally posted by dunwichwitch


...I'm a musician. I write songs, but I never considred them to be MINE. I couldn't consider them my songs, when I considered how I felt about them when I first wrote them. It was like magic... and then there was AMAZING SONG... and I would sit there in awe, playing it over and over again, enjoying it like it was a song on an album by someone else. You could say that it was just your spirit... but where did your spirit come from?...

I was a musician / songwriter up until 2 or 3 years ago...

I understand what you are saying and completely agree with you - music is a spiritual inspiration. When I was composing music or writing songs, it was like I was in another dimension, the feeling of euphoria was indescribable, and I'm just thinking, "wow, am I really doing this?" - that question would come to my mind a lot...


.................................

to the OP:

It's ironic that you should post this in Above Top Secret, as I was going to start a thread in Below Top Secret, in the Faith section (as I consider ATS to be for UFO's & NWO conspiracies etc).


..................................

I'm an Agnostic myself, but like most people on ATS, I am a Truth Seeker, and the existence of God is an important subject for me. I have not read the bible for a long time, but I came across a website a few hours ago which has a contemporary translation in modern English; I found it very easy to read & understand, and from what I gather - God doesn't feel the need to prove Himself.

Originally posted by TruthParadox
reply to post by DarksDeception

 

If God did create us, then he created us as physical beings designed to use logic. Then humans, who try to make the Bible 'work', state that he is spirit and we cannot understand his infinite wisdom. If this is the case, then why did God create us in such a way that 90% of the population would not be 'saved'? It would be like me locking a 2 year old in a room with a shotgun. There's a 90% chance that he will blow his brains out, but I'm only interested in the 10%. My point is, if God did exist, it would be his responsibility to make sure that 90% of his creation does not spend eternity burning in hell.

You say that God created us as logical beings! Well, thats illogical for starters! As God says: "mans wisdom, is not wisdom at all" He gave us a brain to think, and choose! Logic is about facts, God is about faith!

The best way I can explain it is this: My logic would be to take a bullet for Jesus! To you, that would not be logical at all! I never rememeber making a logical concious decission to do this, it just is!

Logic is a perception of what is fact to the individual!

Well, with my life, anyway!

YOUR an IDIOT you know.How can you say that???I can be friends with peaple that dont belive in god but seriusly.havnt you seen those mirracles and how could you belive that a ROCK could come to life....IT CANT!!!!!!You dont see a rock in your backyard saying;hey whats up.YOU CANT CAN YOU!!!!!everyone who belives what this thread is saying are ALL IDIOTS.No seriusly you are.(Cause how can a rock come to life)And if you belive we evolved from monkeys your cazy!Then monkeys wouldnt exist righ now if we evolved from monkeys.(Caues they would be human)So the only thing left is that there IS a god.

Well... I'm a born again Christian and I DO know there is a God. The PROOF is in everything around you. I personally don't need proof but look at the DNA molecule, what it does, and all the information it holds.. think that can happen by chance? hmmmm don't think so.... Only God can create something like that out of nothing. Only God can make a world as beautiful as ours. To this day.. there has not been discovered ONE planet that even remotely resembles earth. Why??? Because God deemed it so... If you can find a planet like earth out there in the universe.. be my guest...I promise you... you won't....

Also, do you really believe that we came from fish or monkeys or whatever and live on a planet in this VAST universe that has JUST the right amount of everything,( i.e. hydrogen, oxygen, etc) to sustain life? I think your very small minded and while true that to each his own, one day... yes one day either now or after your death, YOU WILL acknowledge God as the CREATOR of all....

You are so right AlexG141989. I think the problem is, so many people have been tricked into thinking that we are the highest creation thus, everything revolves around us.
This idea was shared long ago about the Earth as well and it was proven incorrect. I have a feeling that we are going to soon find out that we are also incorrect in the assumption that we are the center of life or its highest creation in the universe. When this is discovered this silly concept of a white bearded man in the sky watching over us will end!

[edit on 8/8/2008 by XcLuciFer]

How is thread at 6 pages already? I guess I'm glad it is because there is a lot of interesting stuff to read here. E8 I've heard of before, but I forgot about how interesting it was. Nassim Haramein I'm not familiar with but I'm gonna read his stuff.

I'm agnostic. I have an open mind towards pretty much everything in life. I can't fathom why people are so black and white. There either is a god, or there isn't?

One day we may proove God does exsist. We will never proove God does not exsist(it is impossible to proove something does NOT exsist). Granted, it might be reasonable to asume God does not exsist, this is not proof. With that being said, the only way to get a definitive answer on this subject is to proove God does exsist, so I say go foward and try and find this.

Asking people to NOT try and proove God exsists is a really silly thing to say. First, no one is going to listen to you anyways. Second, if people did listen to you then we would never get an answer....we probably will never get an anwser anyways, or maybe the answer will be something we won't like.

reply to post by AlexG141989

I'm amazed that anyone would make the claim that no one could ever prove the existence of God, if by 'prove' you mean scientific proof. How many times has someone declared something to be an absolute truth only to be proven wrong only a short while later ie. Man cannot fly...Man cannot travel to the moon...Science has learned all there is to know about the Universe.

There's a scene in the movie Contact, where the scientist asks the theologian this question. "what makes more sense...that a mysterious all powerful God created the universe without leaving any clues to his existence or that there is no God and we just made him up?" My answer to that question is maybe there is scientific proof and the scientist just hasn't come across it yet.

Let me give you one example of a scientific fact that is not well known and while it isn't definitive proof of God, it certainly is thought-provoking.

Basic chemistry. As you go up the periodic table, atoms have more electrons and those electrons occupy 'orbits' around the nucleus. There are a maximum number of electrons that can occupy a particular 'orbit'. If there is no God, then there is no reason why the number of electrons in each 'orbit' should follow a pattern. In other words, they would appear to be random. The first orbit can only hold 2 electrons, the 2nd orbit can only hold 8. The 3rd orbit can only hold 18 and the 4th orbit can only hold 32 electrons. 2,8,18,32 might at first glance appear to be random but they're not. Electrons spin and they either spin clockwise or counter-clockwise. It's a scientific fact that electrons that spin in opposite directions, tend to want to pair up. If you recalculate the number of electrons in each orbit in terms of electron pairs, you now get 1,4,9,16 and if you take the square root of those numbers you get 1,2,3,4!

I find it very difficult to accept the notion that an obvious pattern like that is the result of completely random forces.

You're right! You can't prove it either way and shouldn't even try to. People have their own beliefs and faith and should keep them to their self. I really feel that it's up to the individual to decide. I look in the mirror and all around me and can feel something but I don't know what it is. I can't say either way so I don't.

I don't think most people of this day and age really have any inkling of the reality of their life,or death.
It's all the same.
It's all meaningless without understanding that we all make up a little piece of what god is.
God is Us.

Where do you guys get this idea of a white bearded man in the sky? From movies and such?

Im not religious but to me God would be something like some form of energy with a conscious this being or energy would have omnipresence and transcend all galaxies and dimensions, time and space..It would be all knowing. Not everyone believes in the bible literally or takes it at face value.

And its always the atheist that seem to wanna disprove God every forum i visit it seems like they attack believers. Look at who started this thread.


Anyways I believe their is a higher power but its not a white haired man in the sky so shut up with that commercial concept of god.

Sometimes I get this eerie feeling their is more to me than this fleshy body i cant describe it, its just a feeling.



[edit on 8-8-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

Originally posted by euclid
reply to post by AlexG141989

 

LOL

So let me get this straight..... You are basing your "belief", that there is no GOD, on television, movies and various entertainment media without reviewing the source material (books) of science, religion or philosophy? (Which I admit will be a physically and mentally engaging effort for someone such as yourself; when compared to the relative passivity of "watching" shows).

I said thats the common image that is presented of him, so I used it. How am I basing my belief that there is no god on that???

"OK, I get ya guys now.... When I was your age that's when I was an athiest too. Ended for me right around 30..... but I did a lot of reading 3 to 5 500 page books a week for several years. Don't stop looking. Read science, religion, philosophy and psychology. When ya'll get to be about 35 or so you'll begin to "re-evaluate" things a bit. I didn't realize you were at that age.

Just remember old Euclid.... and what he told you."

I doubt I will ever go back to my ignorant ways of thinking

"A man can believe what he wants, that's his right. But, the reality is, you probably should disprove a creator first, before you say there isn't one.

For some people, creation is an unshakable truth. I'm not talking about blind faith either. Some people just know it, it's not a belief to them. It's not something you can force on someone, though."

Read my past posts where I talked about disproving the creater, I dont want to get into that again.

Anybody that believes in God, is using blind faith. I know what you mean by "they just know" but you know what??? they dont "just know" anything. They may think they do, but in reality they have as much proof of god's existance as I do, and that is absolutely no proof at all. Actually, it is something you can force on someone, even though one may not know he is forcing it on them. Whenever you teach religion to your offspring when they are at a young age, you are forcing them to believe in God. That is the reason almost all theists believe in him. We are after all, all born without a belief in God and you cannot deny that.

"Using this logic, because the MISSING LINK has not been found, evolution has been disproved. Since there is no proof of a missing link it simply does not exist."

But what about all the other evidence that points to evolution??? So no, it has not been disproved. There is still evidence, ALOT of evidence that points towards evolution, but there is no evidence whatsover that points to God.

"Atheism is the most retarded religion on earth. You need to have a LOT of faith to believe that NOTHING exploded, and out of that nothing came a rock that landed in the ocean ( don't forget the soup part), and BOOM! Here we are today.

Right

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
"I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice."
--Albert Einstein

If you think you are smarter than Albert, be my quest..."

hmm you think thats hard to believe, but you have no problem believing that some old white haired dude that lives in the clouds created the entire universe??? hey at least that big bang theory has SOME evidence to it. Can't say that about God now can we???

If your going to bring up Albert Einstine, at least bring up that quote regarding religion that was released not to long ago. It went something alog the lines of "religion is childish

here is an exact quote.

www.telegraph.co.uk...'childish'.html

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

"If your an atheist, then no matter what people say to you, you still wont believe god exists... so whats the point?

IMO Me or any other theists don't need to prove that God does exist.
Its a personal belief that you hold. But if you want actual physical proof, its all around you, and in the universe, the proof you want is in every living thing.

If you haven't noticed our solar system is in PERFECT harmony... The distance from the Sun, the Moon, the rotation, the axis of the earth, it is all balanced.. And why all these religions and 9 different Prophets? Look at how many different races/cultures/traditions/beliefs we have on this planet...doesn't this mean anything at all...?"

You cannot really use the distance from the sun, moon, rotation, or axis of the earth as an argument. These are the conditions in which WE were able to evolve. Who's to say that life didn't evolve on venus??? Not life like ours but life made up of different things, maybe life that can only survive under extreme heat. You really don't know about this and shouldn't use it as an argument.

Yes it does mean something, It means that when people don't understand something they have the need to attach some sort of God to it.

"The last "proof" I can provide for you is: Your Soul. Where do you think it came from? Take a look at the human body and examine how a child is born, when it is born into this world, it is absolutely pure, who / what created all this in the beginning? Did It just happen miraculously you suggest? Man did not create himself in the beginning, and we did not evolve from apes either. I believe the soul is what puts us apart from other animals.

But then, it all comes down to your way of thinking and living, and your beliefs & what you make of life.

Out of curiosity I want to ask you a question if you don't mind? Are any of your parents atheists as well.. and also have you ever been to church?"

There is no proof of any soul existing, so you pretty much wasted your time typing this post.

And regarding to your question. No... everybody in my family, as well as all of my friends ALL believe in God. I have been to church and never really saw the point of it. Even I believed in god until I was 18. I believed in God because I never had the chance to see the world any other way. I myself am a prime example of the point I was making earlier. That almost EVERY person that believes in God was in a way forced to believe.

reply to post by AlexG141989


As much as I want to argue with you on this I simply cannot. You make a solid point and one that simply cannot be refuted. My beliefs are based on faith. Those beliefs have altered drastically over the past couple years as I have moved away from the clutches of established capitalistic religion. However, I still maintain my faith in the fact that there is a God. Now, what the term God means to one may not quite mean the same thing to me.

To get to the point. I must agree with you. The arguments for 'absolute proof' that God exists are pointless. The reason is because until God actually shows up and begins to work wonders in front of virtually everyone there will never be that hard proof.