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The Remote Viewing Hoax/conspiracy

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posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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As early as the 30s-40s tests were done regarding ESP, amongst them Dr. J. B. Rhine, who had subjects attempting to pick out symbols on cards, and of course certain subjects had high accuracy rates, including picking out cards that would be laid out one year into the future, and from one end of the globe to the other. Now these kinds of tests are old school.
I am pretty sure that many more sophisticated and advanced tests have been performed. RV is has been studied and used by various national security agencies for quite some time. The currently accepted views on it is that time and space do not play a role. You can remote view outside of the galaxy and in different timelines. The current accepted views do not happen by chance but by years of research.

Accuracy is made greater when larger groups participate, after training, and notes are compared.




posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Fathom
 


Well Dames certainly did his share to discredit RV, but it's origins were with Ingo Swan and Harold E. Puthoff and Russ Targ. Prapsychological research which was corrupted by military application. In my opinion. Just my two cents worth.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by mystiq
The currently accepted views on it is that time and space do not play a role. You can remote view outside of the galaxy and in different timelines. The current accepted views do not happen by chance but by years of research.

no no no, this is the disinfo part of it and this is what is discrediting the entire community when people believe this since it cannot be proven or disproved.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by Fathom
 


I read the book "Psi Spies" by Jim Marrs. It is interesting to read about what they are trying to see. When I had my OBE, I had little control over it. Maybe a RV who goes into space may describe cities on Mars when (s)he might actually be on a planet across the galaxy.
I look at it this way, while there may be kooks out there, the government would not of spent hundreds of millions of dollars and years on the subject if they thought it did not exist.

BTW, cool avatar andolin

Edited to add

[edit on 7/20/2008 by kidflash2008]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by aleon1018
 

and this is one of the quacks i mentioned in my post above this one.


www.answers.com...&r=67?nr=1&nrls=1

Thank you for your brilliant observations.


I even starred this one post just because you didn't ignore me. (thank you so very much!) .......I guess at least I'm an honest quack? I am not an intentional hoaxer or disinformationist. Maybe it's part of my programing? (idk)

Even deluded people seems to be part of someones program. Afterall, this is a conspiracy site. I guess I'm not as good at denying ignorance like the best ones here do. Ignorance........arogance? I get these confused.



So,...I'm assuming that you also know Russell Targ, Paul Smith and Joe Mc Moneagle? Ask them if I'm a quack. I heard Joe M. doesn't like negativity. (my bad)


Remote viewing obviously shouldn't be misunderstood. Blind or double blind studies may be perceived as some amount of proof, but, not from my suspicions of deception.

Interesting that I had actually thought there was an interview with Ingo Swann here on ATS MIX. I searched for it and it doesn't exist. (anymore?)

Maybe it was posted from another site?

Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the teachings of the Remote Viewing program?

It's a good thing to be able to share and vent your feelings and convictions anyway. So, good luck with that.


If you don't respond; I can only assume you added me to my very long list of ignores by other people.
I'm surprised you didn't get the U2U.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the teachings of the Remote Viewing program?
I'm surprised you didn't get the U2U.


nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

and what U2U are you talking about?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom

Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the teachings of the Remote Viewing program?
I'm surprised you didn't get the U2U.


nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

and what U2U are you talking about?


aleon1018 pointed out what I was referring to here.

It wasn't so much that I was upset or offended by what you said, but you went so much farther into the extreme left-wing of calling anyone else but your own opinion as a wacky nutjob, I felt there would be other people offended even further so as to not want to even to listen to you seriously in your defense of remote viewing as real, with "disinformation agents" attacking it via false information, what you had to say sounded almost like you were working for them.

Does this make sense?

Life is about a balance.

When you thrash out in reflecting your opinion upon anyone else, you reflect also the idiocy that you are in fact attacking that you want to shine the light on.

I'm not upset with you, Fathom, as I understand your perspective well, but it's your own personal beliefs expressed through the words you chose to lay out there, that made it hard to even want to listen to what you had to say. No hard feelings. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings as well.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Hey Spartan we seem to share the same mindset on RV. Do you Practice RV?
If so please U2U me.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom

Originally posted by aleon1018
Your defending Remote Viewing (in such a way) suggests something more 'personal'......which I'm guessing is probably out of character with the teachings of the Remote Viewing program?



nothing personal here, i think it is just a shame that remote viewing has been lumped in with the tin hat crowd and it is because of the wild claims some misguided (or maybe disinfo agents) are making! and i think a couple of them here are p'oed that they have been found out.

and what U2U are you talking about?


There seems to be little interest here on ATS with remote viewing as if it's been debunked already. The disinformationists like the military could be behind the tin foil hat thinking, just to discredit enough for their own agenda. That is another conspiracy aspect. So, I think it's important to consider the possible sources everywhere.

The U2U was written "as if" the site or someone else warned you to ignore me 'as if' sarcasm.

I have come to have even less faith in the internet being a credible source for questionable subjects whether it's UFO's, aliens or the like. People want the best possible proof you could give them.

I think it's important to just point out that you want to set the limits on it's more present credibility and ignore the rest as possible wanabe's and imagination. Did you even watch Suspect Zero?

I used to link to the PSI site for remote viewing awhile ago, but, am always suspicious of any business having a price on it without really knowing them. Some seemed to think it was spam so I quit.

There appears to be some yahoo groups in remote viewing with Paul Smith. I had asked about tasking the Califorrnia drones as a target and Paul Smith replied he hadn't bothered or whatever. Those postings could be military whether they are real or not. Paul Smith worked for the military. He did have some remote viewing articles in UFO magazine.

Like I said, I think I was a drop out originally, but unfortunately don't have any proof. How and what do you feel should be enough proof of it's success and credibility? Is that being a conservative or a realist?


Please share with us what you have tasked if you are able to from any of your history that led you to remote viewing and possible sessions; past threads or links. (practical remote viewing etc.)

I'm glad you started this thread anyway and even flagged it because I feel there's some amount of truth in what you say. It's just the delivery that was kinda rough.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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I have trained in TRV (Technical Remote Viewing) and there was never OOBE's / Astral Traveling involved. I dont believe that they should be 'lumped' into the same category.

I agree that Ed Dames has done alot to discredit Remote Viewing in his effort to be the "Master" remote viewer. Too many bad 'predictions' and some 'way out there' doom and gloom.

I also believe that you can view past and future events as well as the present. I have done a few sessions on future time periods and now that you have me thinking about it, I will have go look up some of my sessions and see if there is anything of interest that came to pass.

At any rate, good thread. There are a number of RV trainers out there that have all come out of the early govt programs and they all train a little differently. I haven't looked into training materials from other 'teachers' but that might be interesting to view. I think they all went their own directions and altered the material as they saw fit.

As with any alternative topic... there will always be someone out there providing the masses with disinformation to make the rest of us look foolish. But once you have experienced it yourself, no one can change your mind and it really doesnt matter if anyone else jumps on board or not. At least that is how I feel on this particular topic.




posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by Trustnoone1987
 


I do practice remote viewing, I have read up on it quite a bit, and have had strange experiences due to that knowledge through sleep paralysis as well as some other events I talk very sparingly on the Paranormal Forum about.

I will drop you a U2U tonight when I get home from work, and finish the post I need to do in the debate I am currently in on the Debate Forum.

Remote Viewing Secrets: A Handbook : Joseph McMoneagle

The first thread there is also the name of Joseph McMoneagle's book, and I talk a little about the book as well as experiences I've had.

Mental Imagery From Words Or Images

This one has more to do with other experiences I've had.

Memoirs of a Psychic Spy: The Remarkable Life Of U.S. Government of Remote Viewer 001

This is an Amazon link to one of Joseph McMoneagle's other books he has out there.


I am by far no expert on the topic, and the intention behind supplying these links was only as reference points that I understand it, not as supplying expert opinion, nor to de-rail this thread.

*We Now Return You To Your Regularly Scheduled Program*

[edit on 20-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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so why cant anyone remote view where bil laden is at.. they can go all the way to the moon,venus, and mars... tell us of lakes.. cities.. highways.. vehicles,etc.etc.etc. Read John Lears stuff,, I about fell over laughing.. especially about venus and the moon.. and he is suppose to be an intelligent man... anyhow im getting off the track.. If the government has all these remote viewers,, why cant they use them in the war.. and let us know which ones are strapping a bomb to there ass,, and wanting to blow up our soldiers??? remote view just across town ,, and see if they can spot the ones with the weapons that want to harm us..,,why cant they do that??? Why cant they remote view inside a house?? and see if the occupant is ready to blow there ass away with a missile launcher?? why cant they rv the road ahead.. and see if there is gonna be an ambush?? etc.. etc..etc..etc.. wishful thinking.. thats why.. they can only do the big stuff.. sure.. uh huh.. yeah.. ok.. right..



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by philjwolf
 


First off, Im not so sure that the goverment has remote viewers anymore (no money left in the budget or maybe the chinese own them now or perhaps they are all living in dubai
)

I believe there is a misconception about remote viewing... its not like getting a clear video stream of information that is obvious in its meaning.

I find that remote viewing is best done in groups so that common results can be identified and misc junk filtered out. Its information that comes through all the senses, sights, smells, sounds, etc. and the results of a session has to be analyzed. It is by no means an exact science in my experience, even with the most 'seasoned' remote viewers. Maybe one day it will be
But ofcourse this is based on my own experiences and i can only speak to that.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by SleeplessInUS]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by philjwolf
 

I'll tell you why. because they only remote view things, places, times that cannot be proved or disproved...that is why. that is how they can let their imaginations run wild and no one questions them and all their fellow remote viewers oooh and aaah, and they all try to out do eachother with wilder claims than the last.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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You seem to be contradicting yourself Fathom. My apologies if I am just not getting it. (wouldnt be the first time LOL)

Im not sure if you think RV is possible or if you think it is all a hoax. In your OP you stated you thought it was real if used for people / events in our time line but there was disinformation being propogated to discredit RV .... but in your last post you stated that basically its all a sham and "they" will only remote view things that cannot be verified and then ooh and ahh at each other, and I assume "they" are remote viewers...

Maybe I missunderstood what your OP was all about, the purpose of this thread. Having been involved in remote viewing, I would hate to think Im being insulted without knowing it.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by SleeplessInUS
 

when i say "they" i am referring to the remote viewers that "astral travel" to mars and to the soul catcher on the moon...those guys...
not the real remote viewers that can go to another country and check in on what michael jackson is doing in Paris ...or whatever.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:33 PM
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Got it.
Thank you for clarifying that for me.

I would have to agree it would be difficult to verify a remote viewing session of mars etc lol. And I would venture to say that most remote viewers dont enjoy that type of target since we prefer to get feedback from a session.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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here is a small contest to show off your remote viewing abilities.
it is sunday july 20th at 22:20 i am ready for bed, i am wearing a white t-shirt and....what color panties?



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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I can't really imagine what a cartoon avatar would wear.

And just because you use a female avatar doesn't mean you are either. There's a site for panties for men...if you're interested.

Maybe you could ask this guy from this video?

www.metacafe.com...

Commando:
www.dailycandy.com...


Weird, I just had a flash from an old comercial that says: "Sorry Charlie, only the best tasting tuna gets to be Starkist" and a cat meowing. Do you have a cat? and is it named Moxy?



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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" Having been involved in remote viewing" would indicate that I am not currently involved. It has been about 4 years since I last did a session but I am considering getting back to it.

It also takes me a good hour at least to do a detailed session and I cant imagine doing that just to find out what color panties you are wearing
besides, there is no way to verify the session to anyone other than you. The feedback would be invalid so what would be the point of the "test".



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