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The Remote Viewing Hoax/conspiracy

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posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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Here is a website I stumbled upon for remote viewing. Its pretty cool, it gives you the coordinate numbers and then lets you go at it, then at the end you can see what you were remote viewing.

The really cool thing is that you can see how other people did. Some of remote viewings that people do are amazingly accurate. So accurate it makes you wonder if it is all B.S. But what would they have to gain?

Oh here is the site:

www.dojopsi.com...

You will need to sign up but its free.




posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Zul007
 

cool site! thank you.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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The CIA had to disclose a few years back, that they where funding and involved with SRI in remote viewing for 20 yrs. They said it was a dead end. Usually after a year or so, if a funded program does not produce results its dumped. You do the math. Although I have never had a successful remote viewing experience, I have had several OBE’s, some voluntary some involuntary. This experience has helped me replace belief with knowledge. Its tuff, and Iam no saint, but you have to weed out what works for you, and ignore the hogwash. Have any of you heard of Robert Monroe, “Journeys Out of the body”. Most of the names throw out in these threads have spent some time at his institute.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by earthbear13
 


As one who has had an involuntary OBE myself, I am one to think some people can control it. Also, the Army used remote viewers in the military for a while (I read the book "Psi Spies" but am drawing a blank on how long it lasted). If the alphabet agencies used it for over 20 years (and probably still have classified programs) there is something to it. The Soviets used it from Stalin's time until the break-up of the Soviet Union.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 
Another good book to read is “Reading the Enemy’s Mind by Paul H Smith” Paul Smith is a retired army intelligence officer that has worked with Dimes, McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, etc. The program’s name at the time was called the Star Gate program. This program was dumped, when after 20 yrs too much info was being leaked. Many former Army remote Viewers believe now the program is under some other name, and much more secret then before. As for having successful OBE’s don’t give up, do some more research for techniques, and beat the fear factor.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by earthbear13
 


It is not a fear factor with the OBE. The one I had was totally unexpected when I was taken to a hospital. They did not give me pure oxygen or any drugs (I asked all the EMTs and medical personel as well as checked my records). My mind was quite sound as my first thought when it started happening was "Oh, sh!t! I'm dying!" (my sister laughed when I told her that one. It is funny what one is thinking at a time like that). When I floated above my body toward the outdoor ceiling of the hospital, I was really relaxed and the feeling I had is indescribable. When my soul went back into my body, it was like everything was very loud.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Fathom
 


Just out of curiousity, since you want to expose the hoax aspect of Remote Viewing, to what extent have you gone to in order to prove the parts of it you feel are not a hoax, other than talk on here in this thread about it?

Oh yeah, as far as the question as to your attire the other night, since I know no one you know, can not verify it other than to actually show up at your door, and there's no independant way to verify, anyone who was to state a color would have to take your word for it, and not that I'm stating you would lie about it, but there's absolutely no way to prove you wouldn't lie either.

If you check out the book I've referenced by Joseph McMoneagle, he gives out the name of the organization he works for currently in this field. I'd tell you what it was, but I've loaned out the book currently and do not remeber the name he gave.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Zul007
Here is a website I stumbled upon for remote viewing. Its pretty cool, it gives you the coordinate numbers and then lets you go at it, then at the end you can see what you were remote viewing.

The really cool thing is that you can see how other people did. Some of remote viewings that people do are amazingly accurate. So accurate it makes you wonder if it is all B.S. But what would they have to gain?

Oh here is the site:

www.dojopsi.com...

You will need to sign up but its free.


I went to this site and Im confused about several things.

1. It in no way verifies the validity of Remote Viewing as the sessions posted cannot be verified in any way (the viewer can view the target photo before he/she ever posts their session.

2. The target numbers are not condusive to free flowing pen movements on paper (cant really get into that without making a boring post to most)

3. The target 'question' is revealed before the onset of the session which does not make the session "blind" as they say it is and gives the viewer preconceived ideas before their session begins.

4. In posting their session results, I see no session work..... IE thoughts, drawings, etc....

anyone can go into this site.... request a target number.... look at the immediate feedback to see the photo and then post something oooooh and ahhhhhh about the picture and what they "saw" in their session LOL seems kind of silly.

At any rate, anyone serious about learning Remote Viewing or Investigating it or even debunking it would need to see some valid resources, definately not the above mentioned site IMO.

perhaps you would find some of these of interest
Remote Viewing Processes and Layers of Meaning - Ingo Swann
UK MOD on Remote Viewing Findings - FOIA (interesting)

Types: (protocols)
ARV
CRV
SRV
TRV

Im sure those arent all of them out there now but those are the most widely known. I studied the protocols of TRV.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 
It would let me know who to take serious and who is all talk.
for example if you had gotten it right I would follow every word in every thread that you posted in.
btw, since you can remote view the past, you can still get the answer right.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 
It would let me know who to take serious and who is all talk.
for example if you had gotten it right I would follow every word in every thread that you posted in.
btw, since you can remote view the past, you can still get the answer right.



Fathom, Fathom, Fathom or 666? www.answers.com...


This sounds to me to be more like a personals ad than a remote viewing session lead. Although, I'm now getting a picture of a white persian cat (familiar) and a night stand with prescription medication. (Possibly a former stalker as well.)



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by SleeplessInUS


1. It in no way verifies the validity of Remote Viewing as the sessions posted cannot be verified in any way (the viewer can view the target photo before he/she ever posts their session.



How do you view the target before you post your results, I did a test and even if you hit back you cannot do so? Did I miss something, thanks.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 
It would let me know who to take serious and who is all talk.
for example if you had gotten it right I would follow every word in every thread that you posted in.
btw, since you can remote view the past, you can still get the answer right.



You ignored everything I stated as to why it would be silly to even attempting something like that with you.

There is no way to corroborate your version verses what anyone else would say, since you're the only one to know in actuality what you were wearing that night.

Whether I believe I am right, you can still state I'm wrong.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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I think I can see how some or most people desire to have psychic abilities like an empath to read their (potential) partners minds. Some of this has been suggested in a few movies as well.

en.wikipedia.org...


I can imagine how frustrating it may be for some who have tried and failed using various psychic claimed methods for finding romance and other personal gains.

A possibly true empath might be able to tell this person that it's really them and not usually others who have the most issues that potentially ruin relationships.

healing.about.com...


Remote viewing suggests past present and future as for the long term. I think some people such as females may read romance novels and somehow expect their own relationships to go as scripted. (OCD? or..)

I found one site that refers to the use of remote viewing in a proposed fictional romance novel. But, I don't think the link will work here.

Here's another site about potential television program uses and polls.
blog.learnremoteviewing.com...

The program Medium is good example of a popular psychic show. Although, she isn't remote viewing but has dream premonitions. I wonder how many remote viewers also have these?

The X-files with Peter Boyle was quite memorable as a psychic example. One of my other favorites was Dead Zone with Christopher Walken. I think these types of shows connect people to these abilities as more than just fictional representations.

Remote Viewing history suggests it was orignially used under more controlled or clinical environments for military objectives such as spying. Having multiple individuals for targets suggests better accuracy. It seems to have lost it's higher standing by scams and for the wrong objectives.

Remote viewing probably can take us just about anywhere, but, I think it shouldn't be confused as a source for that 'perfect romance.'

I'm under the impression here that the OP had these as their original intentions whether they admit it or not. After possibly several failed attempts through some sites claiming these abilities; I can understand how anyone would become disillusioned and "P'oed" as if hustled.


Apparently, the OP wants to use themselves as the target for a more 'personal' fishing expedition? Is that professional for remote viewing? Possibly a criminal profiler.

Somehow reminds me of the movie: Basic Instinct.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by Fathom

Originally posted by mystiq
The currently accepted views on it is that time and space do not play a role. You can remote view outside of the galaxy and in different timelines. The current accepted views do not happen by chance but by years of research.

no no no, this is the disinfo part of it and this is what is discrediting the entire community when people believe this since it cannot be proven or disproved.


This is not disinfo, rudimentary studies that showed you could accurately predict things one year in advance are old hat. Quick searches are revealing a seeming replacement of prevalent knowledge on RV, which is strange. There seems to be a real downplay on this as though it was played with by the CIA and then abandoned because it wasn't accurate enough. Well from disclosures and the stuff I've read its still going on strong . I think psi in general is very dangerous to the PTB, and they want all the most talented working for them, or dealt with somehow. Now this has got me really curious why some the best sites don't come up immediately on the searches like they used to.

Found Ingo Swann's biomindsuperpowers sight, and there is some good papers suggesting the current view of RV, is simply to attempt to take this information and the secret use of it, Black.



www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/Ebon1.htm

Mikhailov was asked to provide expert testimony on the paper Petukhov had given to Toth, which the police were now treating as "evidence."
Specifically, Professor Mikhailov stated: "The article beginning Petukhov, Valery G., from the word of `micro-organism self-radiation' to the words `by means of vacuum particles in space' states that within the content of living cells are particles . . . and these particles are grounds for discussing the fundamental problems of biology in the context of biology and parapsychology. There is also information about the uses of such particles. This material is secret and shows the kind of work done in some scientific institutes of our state."

After two days of confusing interrogation, Toth was told: "Parapsychology as a whole may not be secret information. But there could be fields of science within parapsychology that are secret. It is not for me, as it's a matter for experts, to say what is secret, and what the scientist has stated that the materials you received are a secret. And you received them under circumstances where your behavior and the information seems to be a breach of our law."

The U.S. Embassy received confirmation from the Soviet Foreign Ministry. Toth and his family quickly arranged for a flight to the United States.
The Toth incident was reported world-wide, and the WASHINGTON POST and THE NEW YORK TIMES ran accounts of it.
The incident then passed into oblivion, and most were none the wiser. But intelligence analysts understood that Toth had gotten into his hand, if only for a few moments, one of the tips of the enormous iceberg of top secret Soviet research into psychic powers of the human mind.


It was stated in here that the governments official position was that in no way was anything psi being studied seriously by the government, though Mikhailov's testimony contradicted that.


www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/CIA-InitiatedRV.html

As summarized in the Executive Summary of the now-released Final Report [2] of the second year of the program, "The development of this capability at SRI has evolved to the point where visiting CIA personnel with no previous exposure to such concepts have performed well under controlled laboratory conditions (that is, generated target descriptions of sufficiently high quality to permit blind matching of descriptions to targets by independent judges)." What happened next, however, made even these results pale in comparison.


Seems there is some disinfo happening currently, but I don't think its regarding the actual properties of RV, but the attempt to discredit it and keep it secretive. The last thing they want amongst the citizens groups is many RV groups forming in every town and city, exchanging notes.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by mystiq]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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As far as the possibilities of types of hoaxing; the military might also be using MKULTRA along with the information gained through remote viewing to perform their own means of deception. Alternate realities are always another strong possibility. I still have doubts and suspicions as to where much of remote viewing or psychic information may be coming from.

I think it's important to 'keep in mind' these people may also have any types of implant devices.

I think it's important to not let this thread die and stay on topic rather than on the person who started the thread.

Here's a link on a site with statistics:

www.remoteviewingnv.com...

Predictions:

www.remoteviewingnv.com...



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by aleon1018
Remote Viewing history suggests it was orignially used under more controlled or clinical environments for military objectives such as spying. Having multiple individuals for targets suggests better accuracy. It seems to have lost it's higher standing by scams and for the wrong objectives.

bingo, that is what i am saying.


I'm under the impression here that the OP had these as their original intentions whether they admit it or not. After possibly several failed attempts through some sites claiming these abilities; I can understand how anyone would become disillusioned and "P'oed" as if hustled.

no. i have never attempted it.


Apparently, the OP wants to use themselves as the target for a more 'personal' fishing expedition? Is that professional for remote viewing? Possibly a criminal profiler.

no, just an attempt to find someone that can walk the talk.


Somehow reminds me of the movie: Basic Instinct.

uh...no



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Fathom, you would have to come up with something more 'controlled' than "what color panties am I wearing to bed"


If you want a remote viewer to "walk the talk" you need to have more people than yourself and the remote viewer involved unless it is only for your own benefit.

I would think that you would need a panel of sorts that would come up with a blind target.... assign it a number set and then allow a group of, or one, remote viewer(s) to attempt the target in a certain time frame and post the results before knowing the target. Something of that nature although not that simply... there has to be a fail safe set up or the event as "proof" of anything would be worthless.

And you would have to find a few remote viewers (or at least one) that would agree to your "test".



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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I would imagine they're referring to somone who's actually capable of remote viewing them as a target. Other questions would probably then follow such as remote viewing the home, bedroom etc. I don't see the need to be doing an extended session by a blind target using an envelope or whatever. The alleged panties was a personal, although, inappropriate target. I have yet to see very many guessing what color they were here either. A tleast they didn't ask what flavor as in the edible kind
I think it would be best if they would change the target rather than some underwear comercial. I suppose size does matter?.....

............Shallow Hal comes to mind in his one bedroom scene.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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Originally posted by SleeplessInUS
Fathom, you would have to come up with something more 'controlled' than "what color panties am I wearing to bed"
and why is that? who would know better if they got the answer right? and this would tell me that the person that got it right may also be telling the truth about other remote viewing things. besides i would just u2u them and congratulate them if they got it right. i wouldn't post it on here if they got it wrong. and embarrass them. it could all be done discreetly via u2u.



If you want a remote viewer to "walk the talk" you need to have more people than yourself and the remote viewer involved unless it is only for your own benefit.
yes, my own benefit, no one else needed.



I would think that you would need a panel of sorts that would come up with a blind target.... assign it a number set and then allow a group of, or one, remote viewer(s) to attempt the target in a certain time frame and post the results before knowing the target. Something of that nature although not that simply... there has to be a fail safe set up or the event as "proof" of anything would be worthless.
nah, too complex, why not keep it simple? ,just tell me the date you ...uhm...took a peek and the color. simple.



And you would have to find a few remote viewers (or at least one) that would agree to your "test".
nope, just need one brave soul that believes he/she can RV and is confident in their abilities.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 10:28 AM
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I gotta say... if a well thought out 'test' was developed I would probably get my skills back up to snuff and give it a go. Could be fun, interesting and informative....But for the purpose of "proving" something to one singular person for the benefit of no one else but that one singular person (on a very insignificant thing like color of underwear) I would pass. Perhaps another person would take it upon themselves for the fun of it but since you are directing your test towards me, I have to say no thank you. plus what are the odds of 'guessing' the right color
I would say pretty high.

I find RV to an important topic for discussion and I hate to see it taken down to a form of 'parlor game'.




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