I hear Members of Congress Saying 'If We Could Only Nuke Iran': Ron Paul

reply to post by johnsky

Originally posted by johnsky
Any country that uses nuclear weapons as a first strike option automatically becomes the lowest form of scum on the face of the earth.

Lower than Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, or any other lowlife you could ever imagine.

As a first strike option, I agree. This is why the crazies in charge of Iran must not be permitted to build or buy nukes. It's bad enough that countries like Pakistan and North Korea have them.

reply to post by mybigunit


Thanks - that's a nice pie graph of federal receipts. But it doesn't answer my question. My question is important because you stated there would be no change in the current tax rate for corps.

And that big BLUE chunk of pie....what about that? You willing to give that up?

Originally posted by jheated6
JFJ I like your approach to the subject but their is a big problem with it, you're making the assumption all people think like you...

I don't believe ALL but a vast majority. Obviously based on the administrations approval rating, most people in the US are not happy with them.

Using Germany as a metaphor with Nazi's was a bad example because a lot of time when I hear about what happened in WW2 all I hear about is Germany as a whole. People like to generalize to associate a place with an event, so either way you look at it people are going to think that America and their citizens are behind it.

That was my whole point that people need to realize what is really going on and not make uneducated assumptions.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Thanks - that's a nice pie graph of federal receipts. But it doesn't answer my question. My question is important because you stated there would be no change in the current tax rate for corps.

And that big BLUE chunk of pie....what about that? You willing to give that up?

You seriously have read my posts my friend because I already told you that I couldnt just get rid of that I would probably have to do a minimal national sales tax on certain industries to offset those costs but eventually send the burden to the states and let them choose if they want these type of programs or not. Your right though you cant just drop them but you can phase them out of send the burden to the states and prop up the states long enough till they can decide how they want to handle it.

I didnt give you the tax % because there is no set % it depends on income. Its anywhere between 15% and 35% and if your making mega profits can even be 45%. There would be no change accept some people would go from paying 15% for example to 35% because they are selling way more products and making a lot more money a price Im sure 100% of the corporations are willing to pay to rack in that kind of business.

reply to post by mybigunit



You want a tip on how to deal with SS? Privatize it over time, as Bush suggested.

Otherwise states will implement it differently, and you'll have a bunch of angry boomers on your hands. And you do not want that problem.

Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by mybigunit

 

You want a tip on how to deal with SS? Privatize it over time, as Bush suggested.

Otherwise states will implement it differently, and you'll have a bunch of angry boomers on your hands. And you do not want that problem.

And that should and could be a very good option but either way the federal government should not be handling it. If the states want to handle stuff like that its their choice but the federal government should not be in that business. Same with welfare, education, and the war on drugs. Its a state to state issue because every states situation is different.

I think you see now that Im not a socialist Im not looking to redistribute wealth at all Im looking to put the wealth in the peoples hands and let them choose but there is a cost for doing that and that cost is big government cut backs and out of the box thinking on ways to get income but that is the price we pay for you and me to keep our hard earned money to spend how WE choose not how the government chooses. Dont worry though my friend your style of government will not change anytime soon because the people feel they have to rely on the government now. Even some of the staunchest of conservatives have been brainwashed into thinking they NEED the government in one form or another not realizing there are OTHER options. Sorry for getting testy but when Im getting called a communist or socialist I kind of get a little goofy. I know I needed to clarify positions more sometimes I get impatient though if I am to run I need to learn to change that.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by mybigunit]

Any country that use nukes is the scum of the Earth, so thats America then as they are the only ones who have used them and are the only ones who talk of using them now.

Its great is it not when all the tough guys with the guns telling the guys with knives that they cannot have guns. And when we have a despot nation America waging war on anyone it likes for the pursuit of power and personal gread its really great.

America is so far up turd creek without a paddle the idiots in charge can only think that war will solve all their problems. What they do realise is that it will be the end for America and its people, they will be consigned to the scrap heap of history whilst the perps and parasites feed off their ill gotten gains in some nice safe country, a bit like what the Nazis did coming to America etc.

When I was a child I learned that my family was of German origins......(my Grandfather of seven generations removed, came to this country in 1735)....I then began to learn about the actions of Hitler et al, and the consequences of the world war that they caused....

I felt, even as a child, some deep sorrow and puzzlement that people, just like me, (perhaps even some long lost relatives) could have blindly gone along with what was so obviously at best a very wrong headed, idea..... ( at worst, total evil)

How could supposedly intelligent, generally normal people not have seen what was coming?? How could they not see that what they were allowing would bring misery and destruction to their own doorsteps??

I fear that now I'm getting a front row seat in the 'answer' to some of my questions....

Originally posted by jsobecky
As a first strike option, I agree. This is why the crazies in charge of Iran must not be permitted to build or buy nukes. It's bad enough that countries like Pakistan and North Korea have them.

By the sounds of things, we might have to take the nukes away from the crazies in the states before we can start worrying about other countries.

Especially other countries that have no feasible way to launch a nuke at us.

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by jsobecky

 

Did you not read above WE PAY COPORATE TAXES NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The tax % would not change and corporations would see a BOOM in business because the people will have more money in their pocket to spend. [edit on 6-7-2008 by mybigunit]

I totally agree with this. Winston Churchill had a good saying that sums it up nicely: "A country that tries to tax itself into prosperity is like a man who stands in a bucket & tries to pick himself up by the handle."

There is an Eastern European country that has gone down this route of lowering taxes. The result? Businesses have flooded there because of the tax breaks, there is plenty of work for everyone, they all earn reasonable money, & they have money to spend, which they do, resulting in a propserous economy for everyone.

On a side issue, Health insurance/ national insurance will never be scrapped, because the money goes straight into the governments spending pot, not some retirement or investment pot. Its like a big pyramid scheme, where todays contributions pay yesterdays contributors. Take the contributions away & theres no money to pay the retirees.

Any excess goes on other essential things, like probably more bombs & other weapons.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by johnsky
Any country that uses nuclear weapons as a first strike option automatically becomes the lowest form of scum on the face of the earth.

Lower than Saddam, Hitler, Stalin, or any other lowlife you could ever imagine.

And as such, any country that dares to do something as disgusting as using nuclear weapons as a first strike option must be destroyed.
There's no question about it, no options, that nation, whoever they are cannot be trusted to remain part of this earth.

I really hope the US, once a leader in freedom and democracy, wouldn't dare even imagine using nukes as a first strike option.

I'm not a praying man, but if I were, I'd pray no nation would ever consider such an option. It would become every mans duty on earth to ensure of that nations removal from this planet.

There is a difference between The Nation and The administration. I don't know of ANYONE who thinks bombing Iran in ANY capacity to be a good idea. The VAST MAJORITY of Americans are peaceful people who are not interested in conflicts. So my point is that our NATION would not launch a first strike against Iran but our ADMINISTRATION might. Would you convict all Germans because of what some nazi's did?

This is the likely nuclear weapn they are considering using against
the hardened underground nuclear facilities in Iran.

en.wikipedia.org...

The nuclear bunker buster, it makes a lot of fallout is the really
bad part of the weapon.

The union of concerned scientists has made the following warning video:

www.ucsusa.org...

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


God help us all

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Hi folks, don't know if you remember the U.S Embassy bombing in Nairobi Kenya in 1998. The night before it happened I saw the whole thing in a dream. I had an alarm clock next to my bed at the time which was set to 6am to wake me for work every morning. After waking from what I had seen, I looked at my clock which read 5:50am.
At 6am the clock went off and the radio news was on saying there had been a terrorist bombing in Kenya which I thought was an amaising coincidence.
When I saw the images on T.V that night I was totally shocked and amaised, as I had seen it all in a dream the previous night. In my dream I was on a bus opposite the embassy. I remember looking at an attractive British women on the bus who was seated opposite me. She resembled Sarah Furgusson that's why she caught my attention. There was a bright white flash accross the street then an explosion which blow the bus on it's side. I remember all the windows in the bus being blown out and glass everywhere. Everyone had blood pouring out of wounds mainly from their head, and people were screaming.
I told a few close trustworthy friends what I had seen.
To this day I still don't know how or why I had seen what I did. People can disbelieve and doubt my integrity but I know what I saw.

A couple of Saturdays ago a had another disturbing dream/vision.
In my dream I was contacted by my mother by phone who told me to turn on the T.V news as there was something serious happening in the U.S.
I turned on the T.V news. The announcer had a British accent and there was a logo at the bottom of the news bulleten which had the letters ITV. In the news bulleten on the screen it was night time somewhere and I could see what looked like a large building of some type being hit by a missile. As the missile hit, there were two separate fireballs or firey projectiles which shot skywards from the building, like an explosion.The announcer said the building was a factory.
The announcer was saying that "tensions between the U.S and Russia should never had been allowed to get to this point", and things are escalating quickly". About ten seconds later there was a bright flash in the distance somewhere followed by a purple orange fire ball which looked like a nuclear detonation. The announcer then said that" Human kind as a species and civilisation is now in question, with the biggest question being, who will be next". I was absolutely horrified and disgusted at the whole situation and thought how the hell did things get out of hand soo quickly, and the speed of which this conflict had escalated.
I don't know the timing of this conflict, but I know that I have a real ominus feeling if the U.S is stupid enough to strike Iran.

Only time will tell if what I saw was fact or fiction.

I told a friend of mine about this that lives out of the country...and he emphatically told me to get as many people together to stop this madness before there are serious consequences for everyone not only americans and iranians...also i feel ron paul is a credible source so i believe it to be true and unfortunate

[edit on 7-7-2008 by AgnosticX]

reply to post by zealman

Hi Zealman, fascinating account of your premonition. I believe you. Remember 7/7 here in the UK. I had a dream thirty eight hours before the bombs went off in London, saw bus and buildings blown apart, most vivid dream ever. Like a film. Woke up told the misses and my dad too the next day. Went to work, mates said tell someone. Decided to phone both Scotland Yard and The US Embassy in Grosvenor Square. The woman seemed to take me as a bit cranky at Scotland Yard. The person at the US Embassy who answered my phone call did seem more interested, but here's the thing, he said the Embassy was short of staff to deal with my call due to some American holiday! Said he'd leave a message for when the staff returned! Jeez................
Next morning Bang Bang Bang Bang! I've always thought about this since. I believe you.

reply to post by zealman



DEBUNKED!

Using the words “attractive British women" and "Sarah Ferguson" in the same sentence has to be a lie.


Oh and then this: posted by you just before two saturdays ago.

Originally posted by zealman
I wouldn't be so sure about that my friend. It would come down to a nuclear exchange in the end. Ever heard of the MAD ( Mutually Assured Destruction policy) ? There are no winners in a nuclear war only losers who wished they were'nt so arrogant as to think they could actually win. You can have all the conventional weapons you want, that wont stop the carnage and destruction caused by the nukes, and people's lack of will to fight when they can't get safe food to eat and water to drink.
Russia is currently building the most sophisticated nuclear weapon systems the West has ever caught wind of. The Topol 4 missile has multiple decoys that can duck and weave incoming ordenance. The U.S's Anti Ballistic Missile System wether it be ship - bourne or land based is far from reliable. One article I read described the ABMS as like trying to shoot a bullet out of the sky with another bullet, so it's not that simple.
The Russians have stealth and laser weapon systems incorporated into both ships and air craft as well.
Arrogant thinking such as yours will be the downfall of your country.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by InterWeb]

[edit on 7-7-2008 by InterWeb]

All i can say is (if) some one starts to use nukes in any way shape or form we are all doomed I think we the human race are on the very edge of life or death And right now it don't look to good for us

We can only hope that the Governments of the world wake up and stop playing with our lives Then again they are awake it's us that needs a good old slap around the head




Peace light and love to all

Originally posted by InterWeb
DEBUNKED!

Using the words “attractive British women" and "Sarah Ferguson" in the same sentence has to be a lie.

Oh and then this: posted by you just before two saturdays ago.

Give him a break man, he stated what his dream was, not his opinions.

The two ARE allowed to differ.

I had a dream involving two Asian girls and lime green Jello once. I don't like Asian girls, nor lime green Jello.

Don't be so quick to jump at other members, otherwise, they might find it worthwhile to hound you back. Karma man.


He has a point.
A war between the US and Iran would end up pretty bad... and I'm not just referring to what Iran can do.

I'm finding a recent trend in the minds of people lately... a very primitive way of thinking that can only take root in the minds of severely uneducated people.
This "They're bad guys, we have to kill them!" attitude.

Who was it quoted during WW1 saying, "In other circumstances, we might have been friends."
THAT is a rational view of war.

Show me a soldier of another country who you think is a "bad guy" and I'll show you a patriot.

The people you guys want to have killed are people just like you and I. You might not like to admit that fact, but remember that the next time you get thoughts of war.

The only reason so many congressmen are calling for this is because they're eager to take the next step in the planned depopulation of the world and validate the hideous artwork at the Colorado International Airport.

It would be the war of contracts. If Iran has the technology to retaliate, and with the contract countries joining and exchange, within 10 minutes half the world could be dead before anyone heard the news. So, can we really come up with a quick way to absolutely stop it. A protest with so many millions it makes their jaw drop maybe! Cause the next step is actually throwing them out!

Congressman Ron Paul has warned millions of radio listeners that the US is heading into a deadly confrontation with Iran, revealing his disbelief at members of Congress who have openly voiced support for a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the country...

"...Most of them will say “I agree with you on all you say but the Iranians are bad people and they might attack us some day… I hear members of Congress saying ‘if we could only nuke them’.”

I would love to know who exactly is saying this. Why won't Paul name names, and why should we take his word on it? He is a politician, a snake like any other; because he is a politician, we know he is lying by the virtue of his mouth moving. And that is why he won't say who said this, because he is either lying or engaging in the worst sort of hyperbole. If he named names, he would have to prove these individuals actually said it. He would have to demonstrate some form of accountability.

And really, does anyone here think anyone in their right mind would utter anything like this, even in private, around their political enemies? Of course, this is Congress we are talking about, so I may have answered by own question.

I know Ron Paul and others want to blame Neo-Cons for this legislation, but it was drafted and introduced by Gary Ackerman (D-NY), who is hardly a Neo-Con.

From the former link provided, if you are worried about this, you may find a bit of comfort in this:

This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills go first to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills never make it out of committee.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]