Capitalism has only overcome democracy and resulted in the brainwashing of millions, but, become a republican and, apparently, there's nothing going on, just good business.

I always remind people in discussions like this of how the difference between the two partys began. Andrew Jackson shut down the fed, it was called the 2nd national bank.

The slogan was "The Democrats -vs-The Aristocrats". This was only 150 years ago!! This elitist tie can not be ignored in the face of logic.

The country is operating exactly the way a FEW people want it to, it reminds of Rome, no doubt other people too!

"We Have Nothing To Fear But Fear Itself", and other people who want you to be scared, the Republican elitists.



I really didn't intend to get off topic, just looking for the root cause for you're frustration!!

Also, this would sound crazy spoken in the wrong place, I trust you not to bash me, ATS is an open minded forum!! I have not a racist bone in my body, Was never raised that way, I live in the south though, and it does exist on small levels in my beloved redneck community. Ihave to say I have witnessed more reverse racisism in my lifetime, hopefully because I'm not black and it's the only kind I've been exposed to. Anyway, back to the topic.

I believe we lost most of our rights during the civil war!! Again, slavery was the cruelest injustice, along side native americans, Yet the central govt. gained more control over individual states than any point in history.

It all wasn't about slavery, alot of it concerned the fact the northerners introduced slavery through New York Harbor to be precise. At first all of the abused people were bought and sold from the elitists. When they stopped making money off it, it became a problem. Again I belive the Abolition of slavery was worth going to war for. That's not all that was to be included in the bills to "abolish slavery", it was intentionally loaded to provide the National Govt. the right to control all states.

Just food for thought, the reason I bring it up is because it's so sensitive as an issue, people often forget it's importance to the Federal Control and conspiracries on that level all together. Not only did they gain more power to control us, we suffered extreme losses in our power to contol them!!

[edit on 26-6-2008 by azblack]

This is a great thread. I've been feeling the same way. Lets drop those nukes. Vaporize everything. Did you know that nuclear winter would counter global warming? Maybe It would halt the massive global extinction which is happening now. Besides, the earth can't hold so many billions of people. We need to trim the fat.

America is a great country. We have had it pretty good. We enjoy a ton of freedoms that most of the world envies but theres a definite undercurrent of fear that the government now claims the right to imprison just about anyone they find distastefull for any length of time, without trial. Just look back at the red scare and how so many people were labeled communists and blacklisted. Nowadays its the same scapegoating only now instead of communists, its terrorists. Its all the same garbage excuse to oppress people who are different.

now sure you can argue that we are at war but I could counter-argue that this war on terror was made up by the bush administration and the mass media and just look at how much has changed. give an inch and they take a mile. Sure some sick bastards in the middle east like to blow up stuff stateside once in a while and some thousands of casualties have happened but dammit, we went into afghanistan and Iraq and over a million people have died and if that doesnt make you feel bad to be an american, how much worse is that disgust when you learn that its all because of war profiteering. (watch Iraq for sale)

If I had absolute power to structure the world as I believed it should be, I'd call this a complete wash, scrap everything, totally change the entire fabric of society at every level. Money is out. Its the worst idea ever. Fossil feuls are out too. I swear, we could have free energy for everyone if we just built solar farms, wind farms, hydroelectric and geothermal plants, nuclear, wave pwered generators etc. Free energy for everyone. Everything should be local. People should grow their own food, eat organic homegrown fruits and vegetables, communities should share communal farmland and share the food amongst each other. Everyone works and everyone eats. Everything should be produced locally by real craftsmen, and built to last forever. Designed obsolescence is the stupidest concept anyone ever could have come up with. If I had a time machine to go back and kill any one person, it would be the person who started this trend of making cheap disposable garbage out of everything. hundreds of years ago if you got a chair it would last you a lifetime, it would last through your kids lifetime and your grandkids lifetime. Nowadays you buy a chair at wallmart and it falls apart in less than a year ensuring that you need to go back to wallmart and buy more chairs and get taxed so the government gets more of your money, the chinese that built the chair get more of your money, none of that money goes to the local economy. its idiotic. People need to slow down and appreciate life. The rat race we run every day makes our lives trivial pointless affairs. Theres no substance. Your whole life becomes a chore. What we really need to do is get back to our core ideals. The constitution and the bill of rights are wonderfull documents. If we burn all the lawbooks and all the beurocracy of 200 years of making things worse and just get back to those core values it would make a huge difference. Religion has a set of values also. I find it odd that you have these commandments but people break these rules all the time. I cannot possibly say enough about how we need to return to those core rulesets to get back on the right track.

I think we need a direct democracy. I believe it is possible to design a system where every citizen can go to a gov website and vote on all the issues personally. This would encourage people to get involved. It would make america better. Its gotta be airtight though. If its hackable, then evil men will exploit it. I know it can be done. Nowadays there really is unbreakable encryption.

I was at a party tonight with over 50 underage drinkers that got busted by the cops. All they said was for everyone to quiet down and then they left, plain and simple. People were also visibly smoking weed

You're right though I'm not free.

[edit on 6/26/2008 by InterestedObserver]

flag and favorite.

Everytime I talk about direct democracy internet voting, people go crazy saying it would be fixed, there would be widespread voting fraud. I say to that- We have widespread vote fraud anyway! The last two elections looked rigged to me and even in the current race to pick the candidates, there was serious voter fraud going on, ATS was full of threads about it.

Another thing that needs a major overhaul in our civilization is the education system. Theres something seriously wrong with our world and it starts in our schools. Our education system is a joke. The problem is that parents are working like mad just to put food on the table, so they send the kids to school to learn and the schools are overcrowded and underfunded. What we need is for parents to have more free time to spend WITH THEIR CHILDREN so that they can TEACH them personally ONE TO ONE, and there is the added benefit of bonding with your kids. Nowadays homeschooling could be so easy. The internet provides the sum total of human knowledge, all you need to do is access it. It could be refined in the future with intelligent social networks aimed at individual education with dynamic systems to provide the child with a choice of topics to pick from and to learn at the childs own pace. You might say that kids need to be around other kids in a school environment and thats fine but they could have clubs and youth groups for that it doesnt necessarily need to be at school and really the problem is that in a classroom of 30 how does one child get the attention he or she needs? Not to mention how different kids progress at different paces, I think internet based individual training is the best route.

The healthcare system is a mess too.
Health care should be free. Doctors take an oath to heal the sick. Its all about insurance and getting paid the way it is now. Insurance is a racket. Its like extortion. Its a foolish practice. This goes back to my first point about money bieng the root of all evil. In my world, there is no money. So of course health care is free. But why does a person go to the hospital to be a doctor if he isnt getting paid you might ask? That type of thinking is EXACTLY what I want to erradicate. The doctor should do it because healing people is the right thing to do. It makes him feel good to save lives.

We need to design our civilization to encourage positive healthy ways and to discourage destructive unhealthy dysfunctional ways.

I don't know how things degraded to this point, maybe its the natural entropy of the universe which leads people down this path. We are the result of 4 billion years of evolution we are the most advanced life on this planet. The concept of a utopian society exists. Just because its never been sucessfull doesnt mean we should stop trying.

Originally posted by slackerwire

They allow more of our liberty to be taken away, usually in the name of "protecting the children". They allow more of our money to be stolen from us by government in the name of "being compassionate".

They allow the government to infringe on more and more of our rights in the name of "fighting terror", yet they continue to allow the jackasses in DC to leave our borders wide open. Yea, very effective "war" strategy there, leave your front door wide open.

So what do you suggest WE do about it?

What are YOU doing about it?

Originally posted by guyopitz
flag and favorite.

I don't know how things degraded to this point, maybe its the natural entropy of the universe which leads people down this path. We are the result of 4 billion years of evolution we are the most advanced life on this planet. The concept of a utopian society exists. Just because its never been sucessfull doesnt mean we should stop trying.

i am very much for personal responsibility of the education falling on their parents shoulders. i have always thought i would homeschool my children and want to more than anything i could possibly dream of. but, i fall victim (and even worse, so do my children) to this society. i am a single parent whose ex SHOULD be required to help support, but that just isn't where we are at. i am forced to work like a dog during the day (yes, i get breaks and i come here in hopes of sparking some ideas in myself or others for ways to change things ) and even sometimes at night just to put FLIPPIN' scraps on the table for them to eat. hell, i go days w/out eating just to have enough $$ for so they can eat (which is great for my waist line, but not much else lol).

as far as not knowing how things degraded to this point, i have your answer. it is written all over this thread. ppl accept. they accept bc they compare. it COULD be worse. well GD!! it will be worse w/ that attitude. typing on here may very well not do anything to change things, but then again, at this point, it is all this single tired YOUNG mom has for hope.

Originally posted by craig732


So what do you suggest WE do about it?

What are YOU doing about it?

Short of a violent overthrow, I'm don't believe there is anything WE can do about it.

As for what I am doing: My goal is to become invisible to the government. I have taken the appropriate and sometimes expensive steps to make that happen, and by this time next year I should be flying well below the radar in every facet of my life.

Originally posted by ohioriver

Okay Vance. Since you have it all figured out maybe you can help me. I had a good job with health insurance but I got sick. I went to the doctors for treatment (which was a joke) then insurance company refused to pay , calling it pre existing condition(endometrisis). $12,000 bill I'm stuck with now. Kept working and developed carpal tunnel, insurance company refused to pay said it could never be caused by my repetitive motion job. Appealed and denied then fired. Applied for disability and was denied because my symptoms not severe enough (HA). Applied for food stamps but since I was staying with family member I was denied, but case worker said if I lived in my car I would be approved. I worked for 20 years from age 15 to 36. I paid all my taxes. This is what this country has become. It no longer matters if you work hard and are honest. The only ones who are doing good in this country are the corrupt corporations who lie, steal and cheat their workers and consumers.

Have you ever seen the movie Fight Club?
"Its only once you've lost everything that you are free to do anything."

why people don't rebel- responsibilities to family, country, god

so, If you lose your job, your home, you have no family, no friends no roots at all. You are absolutely free to rebel. Its the way of the world for the horde of starving peasants at the base of the pyramid to surge up and wipe out the elite at the top of that pyramid. The elite will always oppress the meek but the meek will always inherit the earth. The fate of the elite usually ends in violence. Not because they were financially fortunate but because they were spiritually barren and sowed misery and suffering in the world. They reap the rewards of their sin.

so what Im trying to say is. Project mayhem could be a reality. If you've been marginalized and your about to be smothered by our cruel society then its your god given right to fight back and fight back HARD.