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Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Now as far as the philosophy stuff, there are still no secrets there. There might be hiddne meanings, but the answers are given. Just because someone gives a cryptic answers, it's still there.
Originally posted by dalan.
Masons can't all be that bad. You are talking about a group of men whose club is symbolized by the compass and square. Meaning they have a high regard for geometry...how awful, not mathematics. I wil never understand why people are so afraid of Masons, all you have to do is look at what they have helped to bring us-FREEDOM.
Apparently the Masons who came to America and fought in the revolutionary war, believed in philisophies like democracy. And it shows in our constitution. Are Civil Liberties the kind of gift that you impart to an entire Country when all you really want is to rule the world? Because if that is all they wanted then they only needed to support the British Empire or the Roman Catholic Church; and not decide instead that no man deserves to be tyrannized. Now, I am not claiming that all of our founding fathers were Free Masons, but the ones who were, were quite passionate about living in a FREE society...and that by itself says a lot.
Perhaps if more of our leaders were Masons (Bush) we might not be in the mess we are in (Patriot Acts).
What makes you think they haven't?
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Hey, if they wanted to publish ALL the secrets to the mason world, but in some type of sophisticated code, then I would actually be fine with that
Originally posted by Masonic Light
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Now as far as the philosophy stuff, there are still no secrets there. There might be hiddne meanings, but the answers are given. Just because someone gives a cryptic answers, it's still there.
I would refer again to PLato's "Timaeus", which alludes to initiation into the mysteries. The Eleusinian Mysteries were the "Freemasonry" of the ancient Greeks.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Originally posted by dalan.
Masons can't all be that bad. You are talking about a group of men whose club is symbolized by the compass and square. Meaning they have a high regard for geometry...how awful, not mathematics. I wil never understand why people are so afraid of Masons, all you have to do is look at what they have helped to bring us-FREEDOM.
Apparently the Masons who came to America and fought in the revolutionary war, believed in philisophies like democracy. And it shows in our constitution. Are Civil Liberties the kind of gift that you impart to an entire Country when all you really want is to rule the world? Because if that is all they wanted then they only needed to support the British Empire or the Roman Catholic Church; and not decide instead that no man deserves to be tyrannized. Now, I am not claiming that all of our founding fathers were Free Masons, but the ones who were, were quite passionate about living in a FREE society...and that by itself says a lot.
Perhaps if more of our leaders were Masons (Bush) we might not be in the mess we are in (Patriot Acts).
Devil's advocate would say the revolutionary war wasn't exactly freedom, but more like a power hungry group of people that didn't want to be ruled anymore. How many of these great masons were involved in the massacring of native americans? I'm not blaming masons, just trying to show another side to the same argument. Maybe in fact they did want to rule the world eventually. How can you rule the world if England is oppressing you from doing that? Again, I'm not saying all of this is true, but I do think it is a good thing to think about. The whole america thing and fighting for freedom might partially be some propaganda we've been fed for hundreds of years. Not saying it is, but go back as far as you can in American history and you see shady things from day one. Oh well, I love living in America, just wish that the average american was a little smarter and tougher. Bunch of wusses and politically correct wimps we got nowadays. We even let our leaders do unthinkable things! I'm just as much to blame as every other American out there. Oh yeah, back to Masons, yeah they aren't that bad. I mean, who can be bad if they like math right?
Originally posted by JoshNorton
What makes you think they haven't?
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Hey, if they wanted to publish ALL the secrets to the mason world, but in some type of sophisticated code, then I would actually be fine with that
Originally posted by Ryan Lloyd
You make it sound like its something out of a movie...
Freemasons is a religion created by a fraternity a long time ago, and if they want to keep their views and believes and people hidden be it!
Originally posted by dalan.
How many non-masonic Christians were involved in the massacering of Native Americans?
How were the Masons to know that by helping in the birth of America, the Country would become a super-power? Or even bigger than Great Britian? I don't think they wanted power, I think they wanted freedom (implying yes, they didn't want to be told what to do, but they still respect the rights of others). The shady things that happen in America usually come from greed, take JP Morgan and Rockefeller for instance.
Yeah, you don't get it. It's not about ego. It's not about fame & recognition. It's about doing good works because good works need to be done. If someone notices, fine. If they don't, also fine. But at the end of the day I can lead a happier life knowing I made a difference, whether someone else pats me on the back or not.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
if they truly are into helping humanity, then they would show it to the world, not just keep it with their "own kind".
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Originally posted by JoshNorton
Yeah, you don't get it. It's not about ego. It's not about fame & recognition. It's about doing good works because good works need to be done. If someone notices, fine. If they don't, also fine. But at the end of the day I can lead a happier life knowing I made a difference, whether someone else pats me on the back or not.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
if they truly are into helping humanity, then they would show it to the world, not just keep it with their "own kind".
No. The answers are all there. That part's actually quite easy. What most people, including myself, often struggle with is coming up with the right questions.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
My feeling is that somewhere in the top, there is something sinister going on because, correct me if I'm wrong please, even in the higher ups in Masonry, the lower Masons are kept in the dark about some secrets as well, correct?
Originally posted by dalan.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Does it matter how many non-masonic Christians were involved in anything? The point of this thread is about masons right? not skirting the issue, but that's just opening another can of worms.
The masons didn't know the US would become a superpower. Then again, if you want to be rich, you work hard and do your best. You never know if you are going to ever get rich, but you never give up hope. Some people get rich, others don't. You just take that chance. If the masons were truly interested in power, this was their only way out. They could not protest from inside England because they would get shutdown before they even got started. If they truly wanted to start a country to take over the world, that was their best option and they did it. So, maybe they really did want to take over the world eventually, you gotta start somewhere. Do I believe this, not really, but I also don't think certain parts of freemasonry are innocent like they claim to be, but until I have some type of evidence or proof, then freemasonry is what it is-a secret society where anything is possible inside the secretive walls.
JPT
Originally posted by JoshNorton
No. The answers are all there. That part's actually quite easy. What most people, including myself, often struggle with is coming up with the right questions.
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
My feeling is that somewhere in the top, there is something sinister going on because, correct me if I'm wrong please, even in the higher ups in Masonry, the lower Masons are kept in the dark about some secrets as well, correct?
Yes, actually. I do, as do most if not all of the Masons posting here. I don't have the ceremony memorized, of course, but I'm familiar enough with it. (Just to hedge on exactly what you mean when you say "know the ceremony".)
Originally posted by justpassingthroughSo you know exactly what it takes to make it to the highest degree or masonry and you know the ceremony for it, etc...?
Originally posted by JoshNorton
Yes, actually. I do, as do most if not all of the Masons posting here. I don't have the ceremony memorized, of course, but I'm familiar enough with it. (Just to hedge on exactly what you mean when you say "know the ceremony".)
Originally posted by justpassingthroughSo you know exactly what it takes to make it to the highest degree or masonry and you know the ceremony for it, etc...?
[edit on 5/22/2008 by JoshNorton]
Originally posted by justpassingthrough
Weren't the Eleusinian Mysteries based on cult stuff, with the ideas of different gods and goddesses? So, are you saying that Freemasonry is similarly based upon cult ideas?
Anything I've ever read or heard by the freemasons seems to allude that they are a Christian organization, or that being the main belief.
Even doing good deeds is selfish based if you are doing them to hope to get to heaven one day.
I haven't seen one thing yet that shows the masons are out there to help humanity.
I've seen them do actions that appear to help humanity, but it always seems to come back to by doing good work it will benefit them somehow.
So, you showed your point of the Eleusinian mysteries, but that point doesn't really show anything except that a cult years ago practiced secrecy too. At least, that's what I'm getting from this. Please add because there's no way this is what you meant, but then again if you did, no problem, end of discussion I would think.