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Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

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posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:27 AM
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This thread has turned into an afterschool special.

Boring!




posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
This thread has turned into an afterschool special.

Boring!


Glad you could contribute such valuable and intelligent information. Don't know if you were joking or not, but c'mon bring something to the table.

JPT



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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Alrighty then, lets discuss these thing in particular..

What is the number 33?

Who killed JFK? and what alleged suspects were masons?

What is really on the moon and mars?

September 11 wasn't an inside job? Really, who did it?

NO MASONIC CONSPIRACY???? Please tell us about Hiram Abiff, Solomon and the Knights Templar?


Really I want to know, why it is okay to worship idols and call yourselves christians or jews or whatever you call it.

No masonic symbolry?

WTF????

Masonic or not, you guys adopted it, so what's the difference?

ARMY

You guys are the army, of ignorance.

You see things that can improve the world for good, yet you do nothing.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Alrighty then, lets discuss these thing in particular..

What is the number 33?

Who killed JFK? and what alleged suspects were masons?

What is really on the moon and mars?

September 11 wasn't an inside job? Really, who did it?

NO MASONIC CONSPIRACY???? Please tell us about Hiram Abiff, Solomon and the Knights Templar?


Really I want to know, why it is okay to worship idols and call yourselves christians or jews or whatever you call it.

No masonic symbolry?

WTF????

Masonic or not, you guys adopted it, so what's the difference?

ARMY

You guys are the army, of ignorance.

You see things that can improve the world for good, yet you do nothing.


wow, calm down. You kind of went a little off your rocker and then stated a million questions. If you are an anti-mason, your behaviour doesn't help your cause. If anything, it just makes the anti-masons look more silly and less credible and believable. What do you think the number 33 means? All the other questions can wait. Do you think the number 3 has a significance because of the trinity? Is it a coincidence that many paranormal activities seem to escalate closer to 3am? Do you think it's true that the use of the number 3 is in some way to mock Christianity when used by the masons or any other secret society? Or, is 33 just a symbol meaning something entirely different. I'm not defending masons by any stretch, but your tone and lack of intelligent discourse so far does nothing to help your cause.


JPT



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 03:07 AM
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Just honest quesions, thats all?

Wondering if I'm gonna get some honest answers or not.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
What is the number 33?


The Scottish rite of Freemasonry has an honorary degree called 33°.



Who killed JFK? and what alleged suspects were masons?


I don't know. I believe there is a conspiracy to cover up the truth. The masons have nothing to do with the conspiracy.

None of the alleged suspects were Masons.



What is really on the moon and mars?


Dust, sand, rocks, water (on Mars), possibly a flag on the moon, and certainly two rovers on Mars.



September 11 wasn't an inside job? Really, who did it?


I don't know.



NO MASONIC CONSPIRACY???? Please tell us about Hiram Abiff, Solomon and the Knights Templar?


What is the conspiracy here? Solomon was in the bible. How does that make it a conspiracy?



Really I want to know, why it is okay to worship idols and call yourselves christians or jews or whatever you call it.


Anybody may worship idols if they want to. Freemasons don't, since they believe in a single Supreme Being. All Freemasons are monotheistic. Christians and Jews do not worship idols. Christian and Jewish Freemasons worship exactly the same way as non-Mason Christians and Jews.



No masonic symbolry?


There are many symbols in Freemasonry. There are no idols.



WTF????


???



Masonic or not, you guys adopted it, so what's the difference?


What did we adopt?



ARMY

You guys are the army, of ignorance.


What are we ignorant about?



You see things that can improve the world for good, yet you do nothing.


Have you read anything about Freemasonry? The good things done by Freemasonry for the public are common knowledge. Even the most anti of anti-masons acknowledge the masonic charities. You are alone in the world in your belief here.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Really I want to know, why it is okay to worship idols and call yourselves christians or jews or whatever you call it.


I will take this question and allow other members of the Fraternity to answer the rest if they choose.

Why do you feel that Masons worship idols when there is no predetermined religion specified for Masons upon joining?

We refer to God as the Supreme Architect of the Universe, The Great Architect of the Universe or in some instances as Our Sumpreme Grand Master, as well as directly addressing God as God.

We do not call oursleves Christians or Jews or whatever, an individual Brother may call himself Chrisitan or Jewish but that is between him and his personal religion and that topic should never arise in lodge conversations. When a candidate petitions he is only asked one question regarding his faith: Do you believe in God?

If the answer is Yes and he is an upstanding member of the community then he may join, if the answer is no then he will not receive much from Masonry and will be asked not to join.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus
All Freemasons are monotheistic.


Not sure how accurate that is. In fact, it's an odd thing, because I had never heard the requirement of believing in a "monotheistic Supreme Being," the only requirement was to believe in a Supreme Being, and not be an atheist. It was explained to me that Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans (pagans) and any other religion were accepted, given they believed in a Supreme Being as opposed to being atheist.

I have never heard the requirement of a monotheistic god - yet when searching online, many websites have that listed as part of the requirement. Is this a Northern / Southern jurisdiction thing? What gives?



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


You have stumped me here...

If you don't mind, I would like to ask one of the other masons to answer this for you.

In my experience as a mason, it has always been that Freemasons must believe in a Supreme being. As far as I'm aware, Supreme beings (plural) doesn't qualify.

Do Hindu's qualify? I don't actually know. This has never arisen in my lodge.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


You've probably read it before, no doubt. But the book is like ten times more substantial. I have communicated with him a few times through email, and the stuff this guy has uncovered is incredible. You won't be disappointed.


I'll check it out. Crowley was a close friend of British spy Ian Fleming, who eventually created James Bond and wrote the Bond books. There is a rumor that Crowley allowed himself to be photographed while giving the Sign of Typhon, and the photograph sent to Hitler by British intelligence. This was because, supposedly, the Sign of Typhon could defeat the solar powers of the Swastika.

It has also been suggested that the real reason that Crowley was expelled from Italy by Mussolini is that he may have been spying on some Fascists.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by scientist


I have never heard the requirement of a monotheistic god - yet when searching online, many websites have that listed as part of the requirement. Is this a Northern / Southern jurisdiction thing? What gives?


All the Ancient Charges refer to "God" and the "Great Architect of the Universe" as the Supreme Being.

In Hinduisim, Wicca, etc., there may be a large number of deities, but very few literally believe in all of them. Rather they are seen as aspects of the ultimate Deity.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 08:54 AM
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I'm a Mason in Ontario...and just lovin' this thread! Don't think I'll be able to change anyone's mind here. Everyone is set in there ways.....but please by all means check out a couple of our websites to show what we do here. It's not as sordid as taking over the world....but we try and do some good for society at large:

www.grandlodge.on.ca

www.waterloodistrictmasons.com

www.kwmasonichall.com





posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by justpassingthrough

Again, I relate it to religion because I can read up on anything I want to in religion, I don't have to join a certain one and go up the ranks to learn about God. Nothing is hidden from me by the church or it's members. The unfolding process makes sense and is logical nonetheless.

JPT


Well the truth be told, you can do the same with freemasonry. All of the rituals, password, hand shakes and lectures can be found on the internet or at your local library.
Just because you can read up on anything you want to, be it religion or freemasonry, does not mean that you will understand the writter's intended meaning. There is a lot in both that requires personnal exspriance, before true understanding can be obtained.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by lost in the midwest


Well the truth be told, you can do the same with freemasonry. All of the rituals, password, hand shakes and lectures can be found on the internet or at your local library.
Just because you can read up on anything you want to, be it religion or freemasonry, does not mean that you will understand the writter's intended meaning. There is a lot in both that requires personnal exspriance, before true understanding can be obtained.



True, but the point being the info is out there and readily available. Now, when you say all the rituals, handshakes, etc., are all out there on the internet or library, you surely don't mean official mason writings, you must mean ex masons telling their tales or are there official mason docs on all that stuff out there? I agree that just because you read info, experience is the other half to sometimes fully comprehend and understand. It shouldn't be work to get any info, in my opinion, as far as having to jump through hoops or join some fraternity. The work for education and information should just be the actual reading and asking questions and heart's desire to learn and understand a more ultimate truth. I do have a question for all the masons out there. Why do all the ex masons or even the anti-masons that were never masons complain about a blood oath? Do any of you really take blood oaths?


JPT



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by justpassingthrough

I do have a question for all the masons out there. Why do all the ex masons or even the anti-masons that were never masons complain about a blood oath? Do any of you really take blood oaths?




Ancient York Masonry has its roots in medieval England, and somewhere down the line, adopted the same penalties for oath violation as was found in the Mariner Oaths, which were oaths taken by naval shipmen in England in the middle ages.

Many Grand Lodges have removed these from the ritual. However, many also still use them, but when they do, it is stressed that it is done out of tradition, and that the penalties are symbolic, not literal.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Ancient York Masonry has its roots in medieval England, and somewhere down the line, adopted the same penalties for oath violation as was found in the Mariner Oaths, which were oaths taken by naval shipmen in England in the middle ages.

Many Grand Lodges have removed these from the ritual. However, many also still use them, but when they do, it is stressed that it is done out of tradition, and that the penalties are symbolic, not literal.



I will admit that I find the blood oaths unsettling. I would think that any Christian or Jew would never condone that type of thing and therefore not join the masons. Of course, I understand that it's supposed to be symbolic these days, but for me personally, if something went against my religion, even if was symbolic in nature currently, I would still not feel good about joining something unless they banned it completely from anything associated with Masonry. I doubt very much that you can talk about it, but what is so important that you must take a blood oath for, or what WAS so important that a blood oath was needed. Anyhow, please correct me if any of my interpretations of info is incorrect. I'm trying to gain a better understanding of all sides of this argument and a better understanding of my feelings about something being wrong with the Masons being secretive. I'm trying to remain as open as possible to all the possibilities, but like anyone, we have our biases no matter what we say or try and do.

JPT



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by justpassingthrough


I will admit that I find the blood oaths unsettling. I would think that any Christian or Jew would never condone that type of thing and therefore not join the masons.


Why not? They have to do with culture instead of religious beliefs. Our current culture would find them unsettling. But the culture of medieval England considered them normal. All Christian knights took such oaths in the middle ages, and Jews also have a long history of it. Consider Jepthah, in the biblical book of Judges, who offered his daughter up as human sacrifice to Jehovah in order to fulfill an aoth.

Yikes!!!


I doubt very much that you can talk about it, but what is so important that you must take a blood oath for, or what WAS so important that a blood oath was needed.


They were probably introduced into Masonry during times of persecution. At that point, to be known as a Mason meant torture and execution, so utmost secrecy was stressed.

An alternative theory is that Freemasonry derives from the Knights Templar. Therefore, the inclusion of a military oath in the ceremonies of a craft guild was supposed to be "hint" toward the fraternity's true origins.



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Sorry I had a bit to drink last night, anyhow none of the questions posted above had that much do with freemasonry so I do apologize.

I have a couple more sreious questions though, and the first is about 1st degree initiation.

Aren't their many parrellels in the 1st initiation that would imply selling your soul, or subjecting it to vulnerability to uphold the masonic secrets?

Do you not learn in you persuit of becoming a 33rd degree mason alternate teachings than the Bible or Torah or what have you?

When does Luciferianism come into play?

Do you all study the work of Aleister Crowley??

Are you guys very familiar with Thelema and other teachings??

[edit on 23-5-2008 by 12.21.12]



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
When does Luciferianism come into play?


uhmm i dont remember anything that has to do with that while going through 1-32 + shriner degree's



Do you all study the work of Aleister Crowley??


Although it is mostly read in the Southern Jursidiction of Scottish Rite, not everyone studies it, its not required. you dont have to read it.



Are you guys very familiar with Thelema and other teachings??


mmm not that i know of



posted on May, 23 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Just to clear things up a bit, the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish rite, that is the bible belt, is it not?









 
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