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Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

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posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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I'm reading you.




posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by SymbolicLogic
I'm reading you.


Good to know.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle
 

What "in the open" makes you wonder?



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Hi there AugustusMasonicus!

I did read through most of this thread and was surprised to find nothing more then assumptions concerning The Masons.

Of course it is hard to come by any original files "straight from the horse's mouth" but a year ago or so some accredited scientists managed to decipher "The Codex Copiale" which turned out to be an "initiation manual" (my phrase).

The original handwriting is 105 pages whereas the English translation is only 20 pages.
Quite a short read.

I do mention this doc in this context because on the last 6 pages of the doc (starting at page 100... ) the author tells his brethren (after the whole initiation business is dealt with to it's final end) about...

> ## PAGE 100
> d . The so called key *tri* has in its turn something very special, it seams to be thought of beginning from
> agitation, is commendable by means, and it perished to a great part, as follows:
> on the green cloth there is first of all an olive branch, this is the sign of piece and tranquility, secondly, the drum
> is there, so that its acoustic noise bum bum bum gives the sign for a general revolt. Thirdly, the fama, which
> signals the alarm with the trumpet, calls the *bigx*together again to regain their natural freedom and therefore to
> build a corps, fourthly, the three-headed monster means the rule and governance, which, by means of power and
> perfidy, deprive man of his natural freedom
> ## PAGE 101
> and enjoyment of the timely things and of what we, human beings, need. Fifth, the sublime heap means tyranny,
> with which scaver we are printed, sixth, the three snakes, which are placed in a hieroglyphic and mystical way,
> stand for nature, justice and bravery. Seventh, the lance, pistols and flag are weapons of the *bigx*, to regain their
> lost freedom and to rejoice themselves in piece and calmness of all timely goods.
> Inquiring question about the key, which a *nee* needs to answer and to legitimize himself.
> Is the venerable brother a *nee*, by the key I go in the most sacred if I want to and if this is my liking. Where
> does the honorable brother come from
> ## PAGE 102
> through freedom. On which step tread do we find the love of a brother, the strength, the justice and the nature, so
> that in the end he kills the monster with all his three heads. Where can one find this monster? On a heap. Which of
> the most respectable know about the strength, tyranny, arrogance, injustice and ignorance? What does the dear
> brother wish from this death? The crowning with a laurel-wreath or a crown to live calmly and to rejoice of those
> human goods. What does the arrogance of the monster mean? Why does the dear brother want to do these kind of
> projects? For god almighty, which is the beginning of all things. Has the dear brother learned
> ## PAGE 103
> this { project secret } by means of a secret disclosure? When and at which time has the dear brother received
> such disclosure? On a Sunday. In which place did the dear brother receive such disclosure? In the house of the
> god almighty. What did the loving brother see on a high and sublime heap? A terrifying monster with three heads,
> three animals which held themselves together and climbed the heap. A drum, the fama, a branch, this was already
> answered in the previous questions. How was the dear brother accepted in the key *tri*? With faith, true
> eagerness and bravery. What did the dear brother promise himself? To let myself get killed by my
> ## PAGE 104
> natural freedom or it to regain again. In which way were you accepted in the key *tri*? As I was born from my
> mother's womb, that is free, not a servant and subjected to no human law, but obedient only to that of god. What
> is the sign of this *tri*? The hip according to the example of Jacob, to print on a mahl stick. What is the sign of
> kissing out of true fervor? What is the word Adonai? What is the word of the *tri* Yehova, the consolidation *tri*
> is a society of alchemists, which have their own carpet ceremonies and signs. Their work consists primarily of
> fixing the mercury
> ## PAGE 105
> to foresee and it is kept at the moment in Halle. Sundry is known, but not all of it. This new association is not
> thought to be continuous and is not regarded to be worthy of further examination. Amen.

...a new "so called Brotherhood" with the most appalling ideas...

REVOLUTION!

The author doesn't like that very much because when you read through the Copiale you will find that it's mostly about copying the "higher ups" in society and their manners to install the false self-continence in "The Candidate" that he belongs now (after his initiation) to something "above common ground" - whereas all phrases he had to repeat during the rituals were only empty shells of knowledge that was lost long ago.

The ((at that time (~ 1750) new and by Masons of official "colors)) disliked Brotherhood may have become the spark for The French - and also The American - Revolution (My opinion.) - even when the author of said Copiale attested them in his last words...

> ## PAGE 105
> Sundry is known, but not all of it. This new association is not
> thought to be continuous and is not regarded to be worthy of further examination. Amen.

Thank G he was wrong with that!

Here at ATS is an active and new thread by Domo1 right now about The Copiale.
> www.abovetopsecret.com...

The original Copiale with all necessary docs from the University of Uppsalla...

> stp.lingfil.uu.se...

Here you can download...

> Book scan:
>
> display-150dpi
> black and white scans: part1, part2, part3, part4, part5
> color-booklet.pdf (A4, 26MB)
> download-150dpi.zip
> download-400dpi.zip
> images-150dpi
> images-400dpi
>
> watermarks: wm-image-150dpi, wm-image-400dpi
> book cover: bc-image-150dpi, bc-image-400dpi
> text in transcription: txt, docx, pdf
> deciphered German text: txt, docx, pdf
> English translation: txt, docx, pdf
>
> Extra pages from the Oculist's archive in Wolfenbüttel (added February 2012):
>
> Documents from the Masters of the Oculists:
>
> transliteration: txt, docx, pdf
> deciphered German text: txt, docx, pdf
>
> Extra file from the Oculists about their rituals and rules (not corrected):
>
> transliteration: txt, docx, pdf
> deciphered German text: txt, docx, pdf

I have to leave now but will be back soon.
I hope that I could help somewhat.

Ansar



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Ansar
 


I am not seeing the relevance to the thread. How is the related to what we are discussing?



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Hello AugustusMasonicus!

I thought that I did clear that up in my above post.

If I didn't get you totally wrong in your opening post - meaning that I thought you to be of the opinion that
> there is no Masonic conspiracy

- my wish was to prove you right with the quote from "the Copiale".

Said Document, written in ~1750 in Germany in, up to 2011, unbreakable code, shows quite clearly that the "official" branch of masonry was against any promotion of conspiracy against any rules of society (absolutism at that time).

That is why the author tells his brethren on the last pages of this secret - and so very dear book - because it was done with so much painstaking effort - that all upheaval is to be frowned upon and hopefully won't last.

In my words: "Brethren stay away from any conspiracy. It is no good and will bear no fruit."

The author doesn't even think that the people he mentions in his last words there were fit to be real masons and not in their right mind to consider some actions against respected behavior.

So I would sum up my opinion as such:

There is no masonic conspiracy.
And if there is a conspiracy - it can't be masonic.

Greetings

Ansar



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Ansar
Said Document, written in ~1750 in Germany in, up to 2011, unbreakable code, shows quite clearly that the "official" branch of masonry was against any promotion of conspiracy against any rules of society (absolutism at that time).

That is why the author tells his brethren on the last pages of this secret - and so very dear book - because it was done with so much painstaking effort - that all upheaval is to be frowned upon and hopefully won't last.

In my words: "Brethren stay away from any conspiracy. It is no good and will bear no fruit."


Sorry, missed that part. I have since read the other thread as well. Thank you for your contribution.



posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Nothing to be sorry about.

It was my pleasure to clear that up.
Since I'm gathering my "20 posts" I was quite happy to have something to reply to.
The "other thread" is - in my opinion - not such a good read so far because the people there don't bother to read through the original material.

But to each his own. Who said that masticated food (for thought...
) could't be delicious?

Ansar



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Oh, I probably should add that the actual Copiale-Codex-Decipherment-Hype which links the "discovered" "occulist society" (that might be a masonic offspring) to anarchistic activities and speaks of a "terrorist mind set" is not only based on misunderstanding but on some simple and in this case most tragic TRANSLATION ERRORS.
Being a native German speaker a can vouch for that statement.

I made a post about that in the other thread that noone seems to care about because secret and evil plotted masonic activities are so much more fun.

I think this is the most "funny" way to demonstrate that the motto DENY IGNORANCE right at the top of the page in reality can also stand for "Uh? Ignorance? Never heard of it. There can not be such a thing!"

Also the order in which actions and statements from people in public positions appear makes it quite clear in this case where those accusations of the Masons in REALITY stem from.

Be well

Ansar



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
 

I have yet to see one individual prove that there is a ‘Masonic’ conspiracy of any type taking place. There has been a distinct inability by numerous posters to support their assertions that Freemasons and/or Freemasonry are somehow participating in various plots and conspiracies with the intention to perform one or more of the following; world domination by ‘high-level’ Masons, conversion to a one-world religion, the practice of worshipping Satan and/or Lucifer, pedophilia, mind-control and gang-stalking among more notable (notorious?) examples.

I have yet to see anyone, anywhere offer even the faintest glimmer of proof that would help substantiate or corroborate these remarks or beliefs. The typical ‘fact’ presented is the re-hashed opinion of another who has done no research of there own.

What is the underlying cause? Are they self-promoting with the hopes of ‘rising’ to the infamy of people like Icke? Are they just regurgitating theories they have heard in regards Masonry? Or are they- and this is the theory I tend to favor- completely unaware that there is no Masonic conspiracy?

I do not think anyone can prove, with the evidence that has thus far been provided, a conspiracy of Masonic nature, nor will they.
 





I've read a lot of your posts and discussed many things esoteric with you over the years...
However, I don't really see the point in your post.

If there were proof.. there's nothing in this day and age that wouldn't prevent anyone from debunking any "facts" whether truthful or hoaxed..

If I were a mason.. ( hypothetically and part of a grand conspiracy that would be abhorred by the masses..)
then I think it would be in the interest of the group to 'fish' for holes in my cover.
I'd write posts like this.. put it out there... "pick a fight" as it were.. just to see if there were any in the know about any specific 'holes' or flaws in my cover... and what an easy way to further protect any conspiracy.. to challenge researchers to prove the conspiracy... AND.. if any responses look promising and come forth as credible and viable arguments towards such a conspiracy... there you have it.. placed in your lap.. anything that needs buffering against in disinformation propaganda and mockery departments.

if masons are conspiring.. and they're NOT doing what I just described then I would begin to question the intelligence and aptitude of the individuals in the Masonic control strata.

regardless if it's 'malevolent' towards the pleebs.... one thing is true...
Masons do "conspire" ..(breathe in unison under one agreed agenda) to bring charity and brotherhood.

There's also an investigation in the works in the UK to look into any Masonic linkage to child rape circles.
Whether that's the Mason's own self-defiling media smear purported by themselves ...ON themselves to weed out the weeds.. some type of purification.. or simply to admit what they're doing... or a media smear by some other organization somehow.. more powerful than they.. which they can't combat..(hard to imagine) ..is up in the air..

but yeah..tricking the bright minds out there into researching and foolproofing your own loopholes might be a god idea.. if that's not what you're doing.. then i'm sure someone else is busy at it.
edit on 11/20/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge
but yeah..tricking the bright minds out there into researching and foolproofing your own loopholes might be a good idea.. if that's not what you're doing.. then i'm sure someone else is busy at it.
Well, as most of the Masons on ATS have stated at one point or another, if there ever did come to light any definitive proof that Freemasonry as an institution was up to anything nefarious, we'd all quit. So when people throw unfounded accusations at us, we ask them to back up their claims. When they can't, we can sit comfortable that our faith in our organization is still well placed.
edit on 2012.11.20 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2012 @ 12:17 PM
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CONSPIRACY NO. 1:
Take Good Men And Make Them Better... Then They Perfect Themselves!



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge
but yeah..tricking the bright minds out there into researching and foolproofing your own loopholes might be a god idea.. if that's not what you're doing.. then i'm sure someone else is busy at it.


An interesting theory and one that I have never come across prior to your post. The flaw that I see is for this to function there needs to be a constant or at least rarely changing heirarchy which Masonry does not have. Otherwise the canard that the 'low levels' know nothing becomes moot if every year we change leadership but somehow the continuity of the counter intelligence plan continues unabated as each successive elected officers would, by virtue of this continuance, had to have been briefed of its scope and aims.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Ansar
Oh, I probably should add that the actual Copiale-Codex-Decipherment-Hype which links the "discovered" "occulist society" (that might be a masonic offspring) to anarchistic activities and speaks of a "terrorist mind set" is not only based on misunderstanding but on some simple and in this case most tragic TRANSLATION ERRORS.
Being a native German speaker a can vouch for that statement.

I made a post about that in the other thread that noone seems to care about because secret and evil plotted masonic activities are so much more fun.


An interesting point as members of Masonry, the Bavarian Illuminati, etc were what we would consider liberal free-thinkers and would, to the establishment, be 'terroristic' to their attempt to retain control.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by prevenge
but yeah..tricking the bright minds out there into researching and foolproofing your own loopholes might be a god idea.. if that's not what you're doing.. then i'm sure someone else is busy at it.


An interesting theory and one that I have never come across prior to your post. The flaw that I see is for this to function there needs to be a constant or at least rarely changing heirarchy which Masonry does not have. Otherwise the canard that the 'low levels' know nothing becomes moot if every year we change leadership but somehow the continuity of the counter intelligence plan continues unabated as each successive elected officers would, by virtue of this continuance, had to have been briefed of its scope and aims.


why would there need to be a consistent placement of leadership for this to function?
it's a good idea for any organization.. business or otherwise...
a good idea sticks if it works.
this would work.
thus it would stick.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by prevenge
why would there need to be a consistent placement of leadership for this to function?


How else would the proposed mechanism trigger without executive direction?



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by prevenge
why would there need to be a consistent placement of leadership for this to function?


How else would the proposed mechanism trigger without executive direction?


huh? i didn't say there shouldn't be leadership ... i said it doesn't matter if the leadership changes all the time because the concept i had originally posted was a good idea. I'm not re-posting that .. you'll have to go re-read it.

you're sloppily flopping around in semantic loops here..

you know what i mean.
the CIA follows specific clandestine protocols and agendas and their leadership is constantly switching hands...
freemasonry should be able to pull up their big boy pants and do the same.

this is silly .. end of convo.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 09:50 PM
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I find oddly coincidental the masons have checkerboard floors and police sometimes wear checkerboard hats

I find it odd that the two pillars of jachin and Boaz are symbolized in modern archetecture

thats as close as i can get to a conspiracy of some kind, nothing too specific.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by truthermantwo
 

You're over-simplifying our symbolism and failing to realize that symbols are arbitrary and ambiguous.



posted on Nov, 23 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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I've asked myself the same thing.
How do all these con-spiracy theorists seem to know everything about "THE MOST SECRET SOCIETY".
They just feel it in their hearts i guess.





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