Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?, page 38

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reply posted on 26-7-2011 @ 07:19 PM by capozelli

Originally posted by network dude
If you join the military, same thing.

But soldiers follow orders that are not always good or just. Does this mean you do the same thing?

reply posted on 26-7-2011 @ 09:04 PM by network dude

Originally posted by capozelli

Originally posted by network dude
If you join the military, same thing.

But soldiers follow orders that are not always good or just. Does this mean you do the same thing?

did your parents always tell you good and just things to do? Mine too. If they told me to steal things when I didn't need them I would have questioned that. I would have used common sense. Even with masonry.

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 03:42 AM by Schrödinger

reply to post by capozelli

I do not know about US soldiers, but I as a soldier, only follow LEGAL orders. A soldier is not supposed to follow an UNJUST order, since that would be an ILLEGAL order.
Good and Evil is a question about perspective, and not something a soldier should reflect upon.

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 07:09 AM by ForkandSpoon

Originally posted by Schrödinger
reply to post by capozelli

Good and Evil is a question about perspective, and not something a soldier should reflect upon.

Every man has to reflect on that sooner or later, soldiers are no different. Men who do not reflect on that but simply look to "legality", which is alot more like taking a CYA approach to my mind etc.....are the reasons for great atrocities. Many people for instance remember the My Lai massacre where soldiers were killing civilians in Vietnam, but people do not always remember Hugh Thompson who helped save several civilians and used himself and his chopper as a shield, and also persistantly persued justice for what happened. I'm very glad that he used his "perspective" and decided good was worth more then any dangr he might recieve to his life, command, or career.

Good and evil exists. Men in uniforms through history who did not reflect on that have often become monsters, and men in uniform who have reflected on that have often risked their lives and commands to do what is right. War is a horrible dirty buisiness, or as Sherman put it "Hell"....I can't imagine any occupation on earth more in need of considering good and evil then soldiers, unlike most civilians they confront it very personally sometimes daily.

I realize we're far off the original topic but....just a point I wished to make.

edit on 27/7/2011 by ForkandSpoon because: additional comment

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 09:39 AM by KSigMason

reply to post by capozelli

It's easy to pull a line out of context, but in reality, the Lodge doesn't have absolute control over a Brother, particularly outside of the Lodge. As a Past Master I would never have requested blind obedience of one of the members of the Lodge, plus my orders would only be concerned with Lodge operations and the powers of the Worshipful Master, as well as Grand Lodge officers (such Grand Master) are well defined by the Constitution and By-Laws, which amendments are approved by the voting members of that particular body. Freemasonry has many checks and balances.

reply to post by Schrödinger

A soldier should never follow illegal or unjust orders.

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 12:44 PM by DeReK DaRkLy

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

What other fraternal order do you accord them membership with?

Wellz... there are many, many, many groups that an aspiring Earthling can join:

Here's a list example:
List of Fraternal Organizations

Good to know we have all these "special" people in the world.

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 12:49 PM by Schrödinger

I am apparently failing (yet again) in explaining what i mean.

I was writing that a soldier has a duty to never follow an illegal/unjust order.
But if he has to reflect on good an evil, it will only complicate matters, and make him hesitate.

It will always be an illegal order to shoot a civilian, always!
Heck, I can't even shoot a soldier or a paramilitary if he drops his weapon!

reply posted on 27-7-2011 @ 08:44 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy

Sorry I did not see you post earlier, I was busy teaching someone Latin.

Wellz... there are many, many, many groups that an aspiring Earthling can join:

Here's a list example:
List of Fraternal Organizations

I was looking for something a bit more specific. If you had certain suspicions or information other than general tying persons to certain groups or orginizations.

reply posted on 31-7-2011 @ 01:19 PM by DeReK DaRkLy

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Well perhaps "conspiratorial" isn't the essence of what's really being discussed here...

One function of fraternal organizations is to provide a base where connections and resources ("power") are shared. Perhaps there's also a lot of ritual, dogma, history, pride, ego, etc. involved in this, but that obviously isn't the only point.

Before there was an internet, or even telephones, people had to band together physically to congregate, make plans and express themselves, whether for personal, spiritual or business endeavors.

I think a lot of people shun the secrecy of these groups, perhaps because this new "information age" we find ourselves in demands transparency (while the media gives us illusion, of course) and so people naturally assume that with secrecy comes bad intentions.

I just wonder when/if humanity will evolve enough to include the entire populace in its "club", so that we might help each other without trying to cloak ourselves in egotism, imaginary honors and a colossal sense of personal entitlement over others.

edit on 31-7-2011 by DeReK DaRkLy because: typo(s)

reply posted on 31-7-2011 @ 02:26 PM by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
One function of fraternal organizations is to provide a base where connections and resources ("power") are shared.

True, but you would be better served joining an orginization that has as its mission statement the attainment of, or at least similar, goals to what you personally are looking to cultivate, i.e. joining a businessmans or chamber of commerce if you are seeking to promote your business, a political club if you are pursuing a political agenda. Masonry, while you can meet people of many occupations and backgrounds, has no mechanism in place to further ones personal amibitions other than the fact that you will be coming into contact with persons you might not have met otherwise.

I can speak from personal experience as I was a business owner prior to becoming a Mason and did not have flocks of Brothers patronizing my establishment once I did join. I would see a few here and there but that was mostly because I had become friends with them outside of the lodge.

I just wonder when/if humanity will evolve enough to include the entire populace in its "club", so that we might help each other without trying to cloak ourselves in egotism, imaginary honors and a colossal sense of personal entitlement over others.

All Masons are charged to help both Masons and non-Masons equally. Charity is not a gift that is bestowed only to the membership. On the contrary, it would appear that the majority of the 'good deeds' go to persons who are not nor will ever be Masons.

reply posted on 31-7-2011 @ 05:40 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
Before there was an internet, or even telephones, people had to band together physically to congregate, make plans and express themselves, whether for personal, spiritual or business endeavors.

I think a lot of people shun the secrecy of these groups, perhaps because this new "information age" we find ourselves in demands transparency (while the media gives us illusion, of course) and so people naturally assume that with secrecy comes bad intentions.

I just wonder when/if humanity will evolve enough to include the entire populace in its "club", so that we might help each other without trying to cloak ourselves in egotism, imaginary honors and a colossal sense of personal entitlement over others.

I would argue that the opposite is happening—in this information age when more of our social connections are with people we've never seen in the flesh, there's a backlash of people who want that personal connection and will join groups that meet in person simply to get away from the virtual world and the so-called transparency of main stream media. Such people might rather trust someone they actually know than a talking head on Fox News…

edit on 2011.7.31 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-8-2011 @ 09:28 AM by DeReK DaRkLy

reply to post by JoshNorton

there's a backlash of people who want that personal connection and will join groups that meet in person simply to get away from the virtual world

And thanks to the phone & internet, such meetings are WAY easier to organize. ;-)

I would think that by now the number of telephone calls, texts, chat rooms and emails far outweigh similar specially-purposed physical congregations.

reply posted on 2-8-2011 @ 09:31 AM by DeReK DaRkLy

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

True, but you would be better served joining an orginization that has as its mission statement the attainment of, or at least similar, goals to what you personally are looking to cultivate
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I'd probably be better off starting one, but I'd probably end up with the same member I started with. ;-)

All Masons are charged to help both Masons and non-Masons equally.

And the President is charged with upholding Constitutional values, but it doesn't always work out that way. =)

reply posted on 2-8-2011 @ 09:56 AM by Saurus

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
All Masons are charged to help both Masons and non-Masons equally.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
And the President is charged with upholding Constitutional values, but it doesn't always work out that way. =)

You are quite correct - as AugustusMasonicus has already mentioned, Non-masons usually get better help, due to all the Masons working together as a team to help those non-masons that are needy.

edit on 2/8/2011 by Saurus because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 2-8-2011 @ 01:04 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by JoshNorton

there's a backlash of people who want that personal connection and will join groups that meet in person simply to get away from the virtual world

And thanks to the phone & internet, such meetings are WAY easier to organize. ;-)

I would think that by now the number of telephone calls, texts, chat rooms and emails far outweigh similar specially-purposed physical congregations.