He could just resign, couldn't he?

Originally posted by hinky
Like I stated in the other thread running on this - how many do we need anyway. Can't all the anti-American just congregate in one place.

This clown deserves everything he receives, now. He'll have a court marshal at a minimum.

Privates through Generals do not pick and choose were they are to go and perform their duty. They have specific rights and regulations on following legal orders, BUT; they do not determine what is legal.

Back in the good ol' daze of WW2, how many guys would have not gone to Europe and free most of the anti-Americans now inhabiting these forums and spreading their wisdom....

Didn't have a choice then, don't have a choice now...

Again, WW2 was a JUST and LEGAL war. There is no comparison and obviously you did not take the time to read the whole thread otherwise you would not have made such a statement.

There is a huge difference between a legal war and illegal genocide.

What threat did Iraq pose to us?


[edit on 16-5-2008 by deadline527]

Originally posted by hinky

Privates through Generals do not pick and choose were they are to go and perform their duty. They have specific rights and regulations on following legal orders, BUT; they do not determine what is legal.

If they aren't to decide what is illegal to them who is? Their "superiors"? If you're a soldier and you're given an order to kill innocent people would you follow it?

Just because you're told to do something doesn't mean you should do it. Especially if you know or feel it to be wrong. Oath or not.

Originally posted by vor78
That's his choice and its one that I can respect, but on the flip side, he also voluntarily signed a committment with the US military and in return received numerous financial and possibly educational incentives from the taxpayers of this country for doing so.

There's certainly a price to be paid for breaking that committment. That choice should come with consequences. Whether that's a fine or prison time, that's up the courts to decide.

riiiiight. lets give the oath violators at the ground floor a life sentence and the ones at the top a free pass. To me this guy should be held accountable right after ANYONE in the chain of command above him is.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
Why is this guy not in prison already?
It does not matter what he THINKS. Regardless of his opinion, he needs to do his duty especially since he enlisted and was not drafted. It's not his role to decide what is legal and not illegal.

Fort Leavenworth should be getting a cell ready for this loser.

Without a doubt, this was the most mindless post I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

"Listen up people, what you think doesn't matter. Just do what you're told."

Try thinking about that, seriously.

Reading throughout the comments I am seeing the excuse, "Why did he re-enlist then?" being thrown around.

Knowing someone who was thoroughly screwed by a little thing called stop-loss and essentially forced back into service of the empire, this is a question I would have for all those who have "re-enlisted," including Chiroux, Were you threatened with stop-loss before you re-enlisted?

My buddy and his contractual obligation was up. He had served his time in Iraq and was ready to spend time with his two kids, both of who he missed being born because he was serving in this illegal occupation. Unfortunately, when his time came to turn in his rifle and go home for good he was given two choices, be stop-lossed for free and stay another 4 years, or re-enlist and get 20-thousand dollars.

See, so while he may have "willingly" re-enlisted, he did not willingly re-enlist. He was essentially extorted into staying in by saying damned+20K richer if you do, damned if you don't.

If anyone has ever wondered why the re-enlistment numbers during this occupation are so high, this is your answer.

Yes, this war is illegal. Yes, he is a hero for standing up against it. Only in the empire can so many people deny that a war started over wmd's that we sold to them and under false pretenses of Al CIA-Duh ties catapulted by the MSM is anything but illegal.

Instead, this imperial war of conquest that has cost literally over a million innocent lives and countless other maimings and deformities is called just, constitutional and valiant.

We will be greeted as saviors they said. Well, if by greeted as saviors they meant greeted with bloodlust and improvised explosive devices as a way to thank us for the death squads and carpet bombing of civilian facilities, they were 100% correct.

Then again, only in an empire such as our own could logic be so twisted and manipulated into "truth."

We are all so damn screwed...

Give this guy a medal.

In a world were common sense has gone out of the window, I applaud his choices....

Lucky his butt wasn't in a Communist country or a dictorship like Saddam's Iraq.

In Iraq, if you missed your post, you had your Ears cut off for starters.

He joined the forces, has an obligation to follow orders. He's known this the whole time.

Well folks, how much of the atrocities would have been averted if members of the nazis had stopped themselves and said ' No more. This is wrong.'
Sometimes it takes more courage NOT to fight...

I guess France would be German and Nazism would have dominated several countries if not for Americans taking him down.

Good thing those soldiers didn't quit, for evil persists when good men do nothing.

Yes, he volunteered to fight for his country and, apparently, has plans to retire out of the army. However, he also vowed to protect this country "against all enemies, foreign and domestic." THAT is what he is doing. The UCMJ gives him the right to deny an unlawful (i.e., unconstitutional) order. I applaud him and hope that many, many others will follow his lead. If more of our soldiers were willing to do this, they could end this war without the help of Congress or the administration.

Always remember that the people (including the soldiers) have infinitely more power if we just stand together.

Iraq is a legal war. Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make it illegal.

As for killing innocent civilians, this is the part of a legal order that is given. If you do not agree with an order on moral grounds, then do not obey, but be ready to defend your actions or suffer the consequences to superiors.

Back to the individual involved and his sudden decision not to fulfill his oath of office. Remember, he volunteered for service. He reenlisted at least one time. He is a big boy and can make big boy decisions, he's even a sergeant which puts him in a position over others which can be life and death decisions.

The guy can be and should be shot for cowardice.

Originally posted by hinky
As for killing innocent civilians, this is the part of a legal order that is given. If you do not agree with an order on moral grounds, then do not obey, but be ready to defend your actions or suffer the consequences to superiors.

Morality can be argued all day long and we will get nowhere, so we will simply argue legality. Anytime you are ordered to kill innocent civilians it is an illegal order. Willfully killing innocents is in fact a little thing we call WAR CRIME. And as we saw with the Nuremberg trials, just following orders is no excuse.

How can you EVER justify the killing of innocent civilians? Isn't that what the big bad Osama bin Laden is scorned for everyday in our controlled mainstream media? "Those evil Muslims who justify killing innocents!"

Whose side are you on exactly? The side of mass murderers or the side of freedom lovers?

[edit on 16-5-2008 by CaptInsanoX]

He was willing to play soldier so long as it was convenient for him and the Army paid, clothed, and fed him. As soon as it got difficult on him he quit, plain and simple.

No, perhaps he was willing to "play soldier" so long as it was a cause that did not absolutely violate his deepest morals. Tell me this folks, do you believe that there are missions of which a government would send it's soldiers wherein said soldiers have a moral obligation to NOT engage? If you don't think are times to draw a line in the sand, then you have no more conviction than an animal.

Are you one of these who think that men should always sacrifice their heads and the heads of others simply for the glory and pride of their arrogant leaders? I am personally proud of anyone with the balls to STAND UP for what is CLEARLY THE RIGHT THING! You go boy.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by whatsup]

[edit on 16-5-2008 by whatsup]

soldiers refusing to go to Iraq because= they come back dead to usa


they die from sniper fire and I.E.D's bombs that blow armored tanks, armored jeeps and Humvee to little pieces go watch your tube how terrorist kills u.s.a troops war sucks

I am surprised at how many people here don't understand the military at all.
I am also surprised at how many people are so ignorant of the so called stop-loss act.

How many people here understand that when you sign up for the military, regardless of how many years you go active or active reserve, your commitment is for 8 years. It is called the Inactive Ready Reserve and it has been around since at least the 80's.

What that means is that until your 8 years are up, you are subject to recall to active duty. When I signed up in May of 89, and didn't goto Basic til Jan of 90, I was able to apply those 8 months I spent in DEP towards that IRR time. It is all very clear in the contract you sign when you enlist.

As for this solider, he has his reasons for not going back, but he also understands that he is responsible for the his actions and by not going he is guilty under the UCMJ.

As for the legality of the war, tell me again, did the US congress approve the war? Yes or No? Has congress at any time voted to stop the war?

For those who insist that this is an illegal war, illegal by whose standards?