U.S. Soldier Refuses To Serve in 'Illegal Iraq War'!

Well in all honestly its not like our military always has things covered for the best interests of its people,

take the Air Force, for example, if a base is being over run by Enemies, the pilots are required to Shoot an KILL their Crew Chiefs, This was something I learnt when I was in, an was a result of the Korean War, when they invaded the air base their an strung all the remaining personell with safety wire from the hanger ceiling, thats after they tortured them of course.

It was a joke around our base that if that was to ever happen to us apon a TDY, that we were gonna go out with wretches an sockets a swingin.

that had prolly about 5% of relevance to what I am trying to state that our military has Numbers in mind, not people, Its a military if they cared about people then they wouldnt be a good military In the opinons of many.

But this guy prolly has been thinking about this war since it happened, an after all the seriously negitive feedback that is comming out of Iraq, would any of You want to stay an be sent to be a part of it? Could you live with yourself knowing you took part in something You felt was wrong? Many can't.
its called Morals. everyone has them, an no one really thinks about them unless they are provoked by a certain issue.

Maybe he talked to alot fo the people comming back an really was astounded by what he was hearing,

In all honestly We here Know but jack an Fecal Matter About this, AN Im afraid Jack left town Quite some time ago......

So instead of saying this guy is a loser, a quiter a shameless attention whore is kinda harsh when you dont even know what movies he likes or who he is as a person. that matters, not to the military but to him. Just like your thought processes matter to you.

I mean we arent leaving Iraq anytime soon, this is likely to go on untill we start another war with another country... Cough Iran Cough.

Its how things are done, an why things are Fubard.

Welcome to Jamrock.

There is no way to defend this person without lying. His defenders are therefore liars. Remember he voluntarily reenlisted into an all volunteer military after Iraq had began and knowing he could be sent at any moment.

For the English Challenged:

1. A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily: an information booth staffed by volunteers; hospital volunteers.

1. Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers: volunteer firefighters; volunteer tutoring.

1. To perform or offer to perform a service of one's own free will.

I don't think it takes a genius to see he does not even deserve mention in the news or on ATS. This whole episode is some sort of a scam he is pulling. Stay tuned for his book

Originally posted by vor78
That's his choice and its one that I can respect, but on the flip side, he also voluntarily signed a committment with the US military and in return received numerous financial and possibly educational incentives from the taxpayers of this country for doing so.

There's certainly a price to be paid for breaking that committment. That choice should come with consequences. Whether that's a fine or prison time, that's up the courts to decide.

And who will hold your government and DOD for the three (3) trillion unaccounted dollars "your" tax payers used and is unaccounted for?

If the head is corrupted don't go nick picking the innocent because thats all "You" can reach to impose "your" will. Step up and be counted and make your own changes.

Those in power enjoy seeing everyone else fight for the scraps... To bad some are to blind to notice...

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
THIS GUY IS A TRUE HERO!!!

Nope, he is a quitter plain and simple.

To make him out to be anything more is stupid.

If he did not want to play in the "illegal war" then maybe he should have gotten out after his first tour came up?

He was willing to play soldier so long as it was convenient for him and the Army paid, clothed, and fed him. As soon as it got difficult on him he quit, plain and simple.

I doubt those who lost loved ones both victims/bystanders/patriots from both sides of a war would call it playing

Just because you've not walked in another's foot step does not mean the pain is any less for another. When you lived/breathed the pain of another then maybe you will reconsider. Until then.. you will live out your fantasy as you best see fit for "yourself".

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He won't be missed. His kind is useless in a combat zone, anyway.

He'll probably like prison much more than fulfilling his miltary obligation.

He'll make a lot of sweet friends there.

His dishonorable discharge and criminal record will look good on his resume, too.

[edit on 2008/5/16 by GradyPhilpott]

"fulfilling his miltary obligation."

And why has it been pass on to "you" to dictate what a persons obligation is? Are you their guardian/owner? Does not every person have a free will to do as they please and deal with the consequences?

So politician are able to double talk and break not only their promises but their oaths?

When a system is broken from the top, then don't expect those bellow to follow obligations to the letter also.

Unless those in power get a pass? Or are they "gods"/"untouchables" who are exempt from moral obligations?

Just because you prefer to live in your limited box you created based on rules you wish to live with, does not mean your box fits others also.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by Willbert]

Originally posted by Trance Optic

In all honestly We here Know but jack an Fecal Matter About this, AN Im afraid Jack left town Quite some time ago......

He was mentally stable enough to reenlist and make Sergeant. The facts are overwhelmingly against him. If he were suffering from a mental disorder he could get out legally without issue. He is after something else here. Either way he lied when he took the oath and why trust a known liar? He did not just suddenly find out what war is about. He knew for a fact what he was doing the second time around. He is up to something dishonest. Perhaps he is an operative for the Democrats?

I'm not a Republican by the way. I'm also opposed to staying in Iraq. It just that what is going on here is so obvious. He is pulling some kind of scam and it smells of politics.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

How many people join ATS on a daily basis and learn the truth about things? There is no telling when an what information this soldier had to make him decide not to go at the time he decided it. And unless you were there when he made that decision then you can't say anything about it.

As for him not going? I applaud him and hope more soldiers follow his lead. Only when the soldiers refuse to fight will we see and end to this illegal war.
Taking and oath to defend the constitution is just that. We are not defending our constitution in Iraq. We are violating it.


[edit on 16-5-2008 by Simon_Boudreaux]

I wasnt reefering to a Mental disorder, Just that he may of changed his mind about how he felt, it happens all the time, in marriages, carrers, hobbies, an even national security.

He is very mentaly fit, is why hes comming to his conclusions an listening to himself an not the Prepackaged Meatless steak he was fed as a Younger recruit.
Like " You can choose to goto any base you want " lol

Im a rep. Have been since I turned 18, But not out of supporting their beliefs, but out of supporting mine, an staying in the sheep room as a wolf. lol

I vote so oddly I dunno if I have a true side... It would be transparent.

Here is my take on the situation:

Many soldiers enlisted or re-enlisted because they thought what they were doing was justifiable and the right thing to do. Then, they go to a war-zone where there is constant war crimes being committed, atrocities that are unforgivable both morally and legally even if you claim you were just following orders. The way the media has been censoring and totally blacking out any opposition to this illegal and unjust war is appalling and in my opinion misleads many young Americans who THINK they are doing the right thing, until they get there and realize they are being told to murder, abuse, degrade, and totally devastate an entire region both physically and emotionally. All this while being illegal as before stated.

A soldier has a duty to uphold the constitution, but then they enter a combat zone where they are being FORCED to commit WAR CRIMES, then obviously you can see the reason for the about face. They joined the military to protect America, to serve as a soldier, and to uphold the freedoms we so much enjoy - NOT to be murderers, theives, and executioners.

They diddnt join the army to kill children in front of their mothers, or to beat fathers in front of their children. They diddnt join the army to endlessly occupy a region illegally. They diddnt join the army to spill their blood so some politicans can make themselves and their friends even more filthy rich. The army is not here to rape, ruin, and destroy communities for no apparent reason short of genocide.

I applaud this man for standing up for what he believes in, and no longer commiting horrid crimes in the name of national security. I wish more people would stand up for what they believe in, and pray for the innocents whose blood is being spilled for no reason other then greed.

Edit: I am about as pro-Military as you can get, but I do not believe in pointless genocide.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by deadline527]

One of the most courageous and powerful statements a person can make is to walk away.

This guy is by no means a coward. He may simply not want to risk being killed any more or he may be making a political statement, but to call him a coward is - frankly - childish. Theres not a single person that posts on this forum that is inside his head, knows what he has seen, heard, believes or may be going through.

Simple as that.

I don't understand how people think that even though you sign up for the army then you have to do it. Just because they're clothing you and feeding you doesn't make them any important.

This man volunteered in the army because he believed America was doing something right, when he was awoken to the facts that this is a war for money is it his fault he could not justify killing others for money? Seriously are troopers are basically mercenaries and hitman through no fault of their own. How many soldiers have come back saying they were told to fire on a group of civilians? You say well that War, well screw that. Maybe he signed up to PROTECT America, not to invade other countries.

And in his point of view invading Iraq has nothing to do with protecting America and it's constituion. In fact I think he's protecting America way more by refusing to go then by fighting with a gun out in the dessert.

Yeah the army clothes, feeds, and houses you when you work for them. BUT YOUR PROMISING YOUR LIFE TO THEM. Who's getting the better deal?

Well i'm extremely glad to know that there are soldiers out there that see the truth. So when the gov tries to turn the military on the "disobedient" citizens there will be atleast one brave soldier who will refuse to do that because he sees the truth in the governments actions.

Originally posted by deltaboy
Soldiers have preferences these days now?

Do you want to fight in wars? Check Yes or no

If yes what country do you want to fight in? Fill in the blank.

Do you want to be in peacekeeping missions? Yes or no

Do you want to participate in humanitarian missions? Yes or no

If no, why?

If memory serves me right.. there was a poll the Army had their employees fill out to the effect of will you shot US citizens.. its somewhere here on ATS.

This was reported by someone in Iraq who had to fill this poll. How lame is that.. this questionnaire goes way beyond lame compared to your asinine questions....


[edit on 16-5-2008 by Willbert]

Our military is full of 50% people who fight for freedom an 50% people who will kill at a drop of a hat.

Ive seen em, they are 100% trigger crazy an just wanna Kill things, thats who our military likes the most, the people who will do anything becuz someone else wants them too.... can we say Here puppie puppie puppie.....

This guy an the others that are likeminded are the reason this nation is who it is, an why we the people are going to be ok.... but not before our house has been turned upside down an all our belongings removed.

Theres a storm a brewing.....

reply to post by neformore


No disagreement. None of us have the right to call him a coward. He has his own reasons for deserting the military and I can respect that, even if I may not agree with them and even if I believe there should be some consequence for his actions.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by dariousg

 

Does he?

Then why did he choose to re-enlist? Nobody forced him to. He must not be too brilliant if he knew he would go to Iraq to fight in this "illegal war" and yet still choose to re-enlist. Not too bright.

The army is better off without him.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Your opinion and justification holds little to no value..

Unless you walked in a persons shoe.. how can you or anyone know what goes through that persons mind?

If I'm a biologist and it's my profession.. should I then know how to build a rocket to get us to the moon?

We are each educated based on what we each experience and are exposed too.. Commenting on a persons intellect just goes to show how little you value those around you and base your arguments on factual lingo which has as I said little to now value.

The only reason you got a response from me was to show your ignorance not only to how you view others but yourself.

reply to post by Trance Optic


I understand your point. Its the fact he rejoined and took the oath after knowing what would likely happen that smells.

Part of my problem is that I'm remembering what went on surrounding Vietnam and I'm sensing the same things going on again. Very few of the activists in my day were genuine and I doubt they are now. They were attention hounds and phony political activists. They never had a job and they leached off everyone else. Those that I'm still in contact with are the same unemployed bums they were back then. They are opposed to everything except doing nothing positive to contribute to society.

I fully support the concept of a conscientious objector and I know it is easy for a person to get out of the military these days. When they take this route they are after something else. I guess the question is; what is this person after? The facts are not in his favor.

If he is so mentally challenged that he rejoined voluntarily knowing he did not want to go, he should be in treatment; not in front of the cameras and in the news. At the time he first enlisted, the education level of those in the military was higher than the general population and that should raise flags as well.




[edit on 5/16/2008 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by neformore


Spot on - some may not like it, but we know nothing about his motivation for doing this.

I also think that if he's given the chance to tell his side of it, and we get to read it, we might come to a different conclusion about him.

He's doing it for the right reason(s) in his opinion - he's not an abstract case study, or an essay, and he has his reasons and opinions like anyone else.

I'd like to hear his testimony before stating a position.

Like I stated in the other thread running on this - how many do we need anyway. Can't all the anti-American just congregate in one place.

This clown deserves everything he receives, now. He'll have a court marshal at a minimum.

Privates through Generals do not pick and choose were they are to go and perform their duty. They have specific rights and regulations on following legal orders, BUT; they do not determine what is legal.

Back in the good ol' daze of WW2, how many guys would have not gone to Europe and free most of the anti-Americans now inhabiting these forums and spreading their wisdom....

Didn't have a choice then, don't have a choice now...

I bet the mainstream media won't say much about this...