U.S. Soldier Refuses To Serve in 'Illegal Iraq War'!

reply to post by dariousg


I don't know whether that defense will work for him. Why? He's not being paid by the US government to interpret constitutional law. He's paid to be a soldier in a war. He's not going to be held personally responsible in the event that the war is eventually ruled 'illegal', either.

In the end, I think its a simple case: he had a contractual obligation to the American taxpayer that he failed to meet. IMO, the only chance these guys have is a presidential pardon to clear their record at some point down the road should the war be ruled 'illegal' in a court of law. Even then, I wouldn't bet on it.



[edit on 16-5-2008 by vor78]

reply to post by MidnightDStroyer


Im sorry, but anyone in the US Military knows they the chance of them going to Iraq is HIGH. Especially the Army!

He decided ONE MONTH before he was to deploy that he didnt want to go, based on his claims. ONE MONTH. So, in month he got hit in the head with this "truth" ?


Give me a break. That is not even believable.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by dariousg

 

Does he?

Then why did he choose to re-enlist? Nobody forced him to. He must not be too brilliant if he knew he would go to Iraq to fight in this "illegal war" and yet still choose to re-enlist. Not too bright.

The army is better off without him.

[edit on 16-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

As MidnightDStroyer said, we do not know the timetable as to when you re-enlisted and when you came to the conclusion that he is fighting an illegal war. It is quite possible that he only recently looked into the legality of the war he is fighting. I hope others follow in his path and realize this whole war is just one big fat lie.

S&F for you DD.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I don't thing he himself is wanting attention but more of wanting to bring attention to the issues at hand. It's a huge statement! Need to see if MSM will pick it up and follow it up.

I doubt they will since they NEVER follow up on any issue EVER; that is never follow up on issues on regular programming.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I understand what you are trying to say. However, as it was stated somewhere above, how do we know his full story? 'When' did he come to understand that the war is illegal? He has gone into hostile zones before from his credentials so it does not appear he is afraid. He truly is making a stance based on what he signed on to do. UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION that just happens to be a piece of paper according to this guys commander in chief.

Do you agree with our prestigious leader? That it is JUST a piece of paper? You see, THAT is what this brave soldier is doing. He is standing up for what he believes is right.

reply to post by dariousg


I agree. We dont hear all the story. But I find it hard to beleive that he just woke up a month before leaving - after he knew his orders for awhile...and decide "im done".



[edit on 16-5-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by vor78
he also voluntarily signed a committment with the US military

He voluntarily decided to risk his life to defend the constitution.

Not to violate it.


He's doing the right thing. This person IS a hero.


To go to war for corporate masters for corporate profits while neglecting the safety of millions of Americans, America's economy, and America's reputation worldwide is not the act of a patriot. It's the act of an ignorant, disposable tool of the establishment.

I would still like to know why these soldiers were testifying in front of members of Congress to begin with. Are they still working on funding, or is this some other investigation?

reply to post by vor78


Okay, then being a taxpayer that holds his contract I give him my FULL pardon. There. Done. Why? Because I truly believe he understands what he is getting himself into. He is not doing this to be a coward. If he was a coward he would have fled to Canada or Mexico. Did he? No. He decided to take the brave route and fight for what he believes in. This country. This country does NOT stand for invading countries that did not attack us. This country does NOT stand for oppression, deceipt and lies. That is what THIS administration stands for. They have lied to us and our soldiers so much over the past 8 years that I can't believe they avoided impeachment.

This man is only doing what many others are hopefully going to start doing. Questioning the illegal actions of some of the more power hungry within our government.

We must address our standing in the world and start to make amends soon before it is too late and this administration succeeds at what they are trying to do. Start a third world war that will end in nuclear destruction. That will make them a boat load of money and they will go unscathed as usual.

This man is not a coward. He is a hero for standing up and making this stand. It is not up to the courts to decide what is constitutional. It was up to me to understand what I was agreeing to uphold. It was up to me to learn the constitution when I signed in. It was up to me to uphold it in a fair manner. Not the courts. When the courts get involved it is usually too late. Do you understand that? When they are involved it is usually AFTER THE FACT.

This man is stepping up BEFORE THE FACT. Before his morals are destroyed and his dedication to the basis for this country is put to the test in an ILLEGAL war.

reply to post by ianr5741


But again, his problem will be that ultimately, he cannot arbitrarily decide whether this war is illegal or not. He can think it, but he cannot unilaterally break his committment to the US military based on what he thinks is true.

Ultimately, the legality of the war must be decided in a court.

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Let's try this scenario. It's not too far fetched. My time in the service was all spend in the intel world. This kind of happened for me which kind of enlightened me to what people in positions of power are capable of.

Say he started hearing 'things' about the legality of the war in Iraq during his last tour. He gets back stateside and gets his orders for deployment into this war. He keeps hearing these rumblings and of course, as all good 'patriots' do, he laughs them off at first.

However, now that he keeps hearing these rumors and such and is actually going to participate, he decides to look into it during the month leading up to this deployment. WOW! He gets a big dose of reality square between the eyes.

He starts to think, what the fuh? This war isn't legal. It never has been. There have been THREE different reasons given for us being there and yet we are still there illegally. Holy crap. And I'm going. I'm going to be asked to participate in an illegal occupation of a non-aggressive country. WOW.

You see? It is not as far fetched as you might think my friend. Enlightenment does not always come with patient learning. In most cases it comes with a fast and furious bang.

**edit: Spelling**

[edit on 16-5-2008 by dariousg]

reply to post by dariousg


And you're one of 300 million. For all I know, there's 299 million who want to send him to the chair.

I'll state it once again: he may have an argument in a court. But many people in this thread act like there shouldn't even be a trial. Just turn the guy loose based upon what ultimately is HIS OPINION.

His opinion may be correct. And it may not be. But he has ZERO legal authority to arbitrarily decide whether or not the war itself is illegal or if the constitution is being upheld. That MUST be decided in a court.

Do you have the legal authority to completely disregard a traffic ticket because you believe the officer didn't act within the bounds of the law? Of course not. You take it to court and that's ultimately where this issue must be decided as well.

reply to post by vor78


LOL..."299 million might want to send him to the chair"???

Have you been paying attention to HOW MANY people in this nation are TIRED of this ILLEGAL WAR, and want our men to come home?

NOBODY, save for the tiny few war-mongers and gov-employees still left here would want this guy to go to any chair based on his taking a stand against a TREASONOUS, ILLEGAL WAR---That was initiated ALL ON LIES.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Sigh...

I'm simply making the point that one average joe's opinion to free him from his contract means absolutely nothing and that public opinion on the matter is essentially irrelevant to the case. The only way that he can be freed of his legal obligation is if a court of law determines as such.

reply to post by vor78


10-4...Gotcha...Took your comment out of context.

Apologies.

Carry on...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He won't be missed. His kind is useless in a combat zone, anyway.

Because hes not a silent-obedient-sheep

He'll probably like prison much more than fulfilling his miltary obligation.

At least in prison he will have the good conscious in knowing he didn't participate in an un Consitutional, un just war for profits.
which has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people.

His "military obligation" is to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION of the United States, Iraq posed no threat to the CONSTITUTION.

He'll make a lot of sweet friends there.

maybe he will.

His dishonorable discharge and criminal record will look good on his resume, too.

At least his soul wont be damned for murder.


[edit on 16-5-2008 by C0le]

reply to post by DimensionalDetective


Not a problem.

Sometimes its difficult to convey meaning on an internet message board and things can be taken in a different context than intended. Add in political discussion, where arguments often get heated, and the potential for such misunderstandings intensifies.

No harm, no foul in this case.

I think we are assuming much to say that he made his decision just one month before his deployment date. The thing is, the decision may have been one he has debated within himself for some time. Perhaps it is not out of the realm of possibility that the decision has been made for a long time, but out of fear of retribution, he has waited to go public with it. Right or wrong, I think it is noble that he is following his convictions based on the very brief account in the article about what is going on.

Aaron

Why is this guy not in prison already?
It does not matter what he THINKS. Regardless of his opinion, he needs to do his duty especially since he enlisted and was not drafted. It's not his role to decide what is legal and not illegal.

Fort Leavenworth should be getting a cell ready for this loser.

I'd say his career with the military is over.

When you refuse to obey an order, you're going to find yourself in deep do do.

Deploying to Iraq is not optional depending on one's view of the legality of the war. When the military says you're ordered to go somewhere, if you choose to not obey the order there will be consequences.

Having said that I have to admit that I admire his courage. He has just put his military career on the line and most likely he'll end up in jail.

I don't know how many people have that kind of courage.