Iran rejects nuclear inspections unless Israel allows them

reply to post by ludaChris


It's not that easy. As soon as they pull out of the treaty, neocons will use that as "proof" that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and will start a war with Iran. What Iran is saying here is that they're being scrutinized and over-inspected because Israel and the US assumes it has nuclear weapons, when they don't, and yet Israel has weapons and yet no one bothers to investigate them.

The fact of the matter is, Israel can stay off the treaty and have nuclear technology, but Iran cannot because doing so would make US and Israel invade them.

I side with the Iranian government. Isreal has nukes and needs to disclose that fact. Then Iran will have no choice but to open their doors. Problem is, they can just move them far underground where the UN will never see them.

I have never trusted the government of Isreal. They only want what's best for Isreal and don't care about anyone else.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by ludaChris

 

It's not that easy. As soon as they pull out of the treaty, neocons will use that as "proof" that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and will start a war with Iran. What Iran is saying here is that they're being scrutinized and over-inspected because Israel and the US assumes it has nuclear weapons, when they don't, and yet Israel has weapons and yet no one bothers to investigate them.

The fact of the matter is, Israel can stay off the treaty and have nuclear technology, but Iran cannot because doing so would make US and Israel invade them.

Actually, they don't need an excuse to invade. It just seems polite in diplomatic circles to have one before starting in. They love their make-believe civility.

Just catching up with this thread. I have to confess although Iran is a dangerous regime they do make a valid point regarding Israel. Israel as we all know has nukes but not offically declared them. Iran is using that as a wriggling manoevour but it is a damn clever one too. As to the wider context of Israel my heart sinks in despair. Israel was created in 1947, only 2 years after the end of WW2. You would have thought that with the Jews having suffered terrible persecution under the Nazi regime and not to mention the millions who died in the gas chambers in the horror camps, they would have settled down i their new country and got on with living. Instead over the last 40 or more years we have seen the exact opposite. Israel is behaving in a way that the Nazis did by persecuting the arab people in Palestine (what's left of it). Israel have become the opressers instead of the opressed.
Dont get me wrong, fault lies on both sides and plenty of people have their hands deep in blood, but i think Israel should take the greater responsibilities for their actions and considering their tragic past/roots. As the saying goes in the Spiderman film "With great power comes great responsibility". If Israel is goiing to have nukes then it should take responsibilites for its actions in it's own backyard.
They can make a start by declaring offically the extent of their nukes. They probably have a couple of hundred. can't see why though one nuke is enough to triggger the end of days. That will put Iran on the backfoot for a start. Now if Israel was really wanting to be poilitically savvy they could smoke the pipe of peace by making Jersualeum, a city everyone has their claws in, a state in it's own right, like the Vatican is today. Since the UN was effectively responsible for the creation of Israel in 1947 they can jolly well get the ball rolling and sort the whole sorry mess out....

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira



Godfather you seem to somewhat know what your talking about, however, your knowledge seems to be more "i dislike or hate Israel" then anything else. Reason im saying this is because all your comments on this entire freaking issue are all blaming the U.S or Israel yet leaving all the other stuff such as rockets being fired into Israel from Lebanon before Israel invaded them. My point is how can you sit there and try and make someone or something look bad when your only pointing them out? Lol seems to me your more of the with me or against me side then any of us here.

Anyways yes the nuclear issue is a issue in its self however that is no right to reject a nuclear inspection unless they are hiding something indeed. So stop waisting your time trying to pick sides because either way Iran should be a bit more mature about how they run their nation.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by Mr.x211]

I havn't read deep into this thread past a few posts,as I do not want to get into a political debate or semantics with people.


But I will make this comment,even as a PROUD CITIZEN of the United States (if you can't tell by reading the threads on my signiture)I agree with Iran on the fact as to "Why should they have to let inspectors in if Israel does not?"

I know the US backs Israel,but we should not let them be immune to inspections cause we are their friends,so yea I agree with Iran on this9and I don't agree with them much).

But to make a point, they better come up with a solution soon or we will launch airstrikes.Personally I think we need to get the hell out of the mideast affairs and just maitain a business relationship,but Im not the President so I can't make that call.

reply to post by jkrog08


Lets see maybe because Israel never threatened to blow them up nor do they help fund killing Americans in Iraq...thats probably why we and many other nations such as Britain is wanting them to have inspections.

I noticed an Englishman on here saying that Israel stole land that wasn't there. So Scotland, Ireland, Wales, and all the other countries you stole should be able to bomb you at will right? Because English oppressors deserve to be killed and raped. I realize almost everyone thinks Jews should be killed, thats fine if you do, I'm not jewish, and it won't effect me, I just wish Europe, since they seem to be the largest group of haters, would have let Hitler finish so I don't have to see another I want all the jews dead and Israel gone thread on this site, maybe they could have gotten all the blacks, hispanics and gays too, that would kill a lot of the threads on here though, although arguably crime in America would be down 90%.

Originally posted by Mr.x211
Lets see maybe because Israel never threatened to blow them

Debunked.

up nor do they help fund killing Americans in Iraq

Also debunked as propaganda deliberately written by the Pentagon to misinform the public.

...thats probably why we and many other nations such as Britain is wanting them to have inspections.

Fine. Have inspections.

See, here's the problem with your reasoning: You assume any nation who doesn't want to allow inspections to be an Enemy who has something to hide.

Now let's make this a little easier for you with a more personal example. Let's say the police show up at your door. They tell you they want to come inside to look for guns. They do not have a warrant. What they do have is a full SWAT team loaded for bear in your front yard, and helicopters with snipers in the sky above, waiting for you to say "No" so they can take you down by force. Why? Because they just know you've got a stockpile of guns in there that aren't registered, or were purchased illegally. Do you really? Maybe, maybe not. Whether you do or not doesn't matter, because there's literally a bead drawn on your center of mass and at least five guys ready to pull the trigger right now because armed or not, they believe you're some kind of threat.

So what do you do?

If you really, truly believe your rhetoric on Iran, you should let them in, because if you have nothing to hide you have no reason to deny them entry, right?

But something tells me you're not the type to just let them in to look at their leisure. I'm guessing you'll tell them to get lost and get a warrant if they want to enter your home. Your property. Your private sanctuary.

With nations it's the same way. Just as you most likely wouldn't allow outsiders into your home, your sovereign territory on a fishing expedition, nor should any sovereign nation be pleased at such a prospect.

Iran, as a sovereign nation, has rights. Those rights are in jeopardy because of a US government that wants their oil for multinational business interests. We're rattling our sabers in the hopes of getting them to make the first move, and they're not falling for it.

As for their demand that Israel disclose its nuclear weapons program, well, they have a right to make that demand as well. If there's going to be an international community then everyone, and I mean everyone, has to play by the same rules--Iran, Israel, the US and UK. The NPT treaty be damned!! What matters here is fairness and sovereignty. Nations that have nukes denying other nations from having nukes (at gunpoint!), for whatever reason, is just as unfair as the anti-gun groups conservatives decry for wanting to disarm lawful gun owners.

Pandora's box has been opened. These weapons will start spreading.

Nuclear technology should not be spread so easily... especially to a Theocracy. The government of Iran should not be complaining... They already threatened another nation.

Originally posted by Mr.x211
reply to post by jkrog08

 

Lets see maybe because Israel never threatened to blow them up nor do they help fund killing Americans in Iraq...thats probably why we and many other nations such as Britain is wanting them to have inspections.

Um, all due respect but this is the wrong place to make such assertions lightly. As for the Brits, we KNOW what their government wants as does the world know what our government wants. What the people would like is hardly even openly discussed outside of the internet any more.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Isn't it funny how a nation like Iran, who has never invaded another nation in it's modern history is not even allowed the possibility of pursuing Nuclear weapons, but on the other hand Israel, who has been offensively bombing Gaza and Lebanon back into the Stone Ages for decades and have no restraint in attacking civilians; has acquired them without any discussion and without anyone knowing.

And what's more they have the nerve to deny that they have them, even after Mordechai Vanunu, a former technicians published a truckload of photos showing nothing but enriching centrifuges, stores of plutonium and military reactors.

The complete double standard of this whole episode is what pisses me off.
It's no freakin' wonder Iran wants to pursue Nuclear Weapons, their democratically elected President Mossadegh was overthrown by the US for not licking their ass, they were invaded by Iraq with US backing, now American threatens military action and has hundred's of thousands of troops stationed next door in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they're seen as deranged lunatics for wanting to pursue Nuclear Weapons?
Right, what whackjobs! Trying to defend themselves from decades of US aggression against them!

What hypocrisies... and how exactly did America start it's Nuclear programme all those years ago?
It did the exact same thing. Rumors of a German programme under development sparked Project Manhattan, we would do the exact same thing in the same situation yet here we are threatening to attack Iran for standing up for themselves?

US Foreign Policy knows no consistency...

Agreed!!!!!

I don't think this is a smart move by Iran because this gives Israel the exact excuse to start bombing them. Israel is reckless and have absolute backing of America, they have the confidence and absolute power to do what ever they want without facing the consequence. Iran should be more carefull than that, it's good that they are standing up for a cause but they should remember that after they are destroyed from the face of the earth their will be no one left to stand up against Israel and America.

I'm all for Israel AND Iran on this one. Come clean Israel and a lot of other nations will come clean with the world. Its not the fact of nuclear technology that Israel has but the delivery fact Israel has. If Iran announced tomorrow that it had the bomb, not many would do anything about it because Iran doesn't have effective delivery systems.

Example, their missile technology would only spit them as far as Iraq or neighboring countries. But Muslim countries like Pakistan have medium range ICBM capability that Iran could clandestandly take advantage of. I don't know if anyone remembers but during the Gulf War one of the Coalition ships turned away a shipment of Chinese Silkworm Medium range missile BOUND FOR IRAN. An isolated incident back then but now...?

Israel on the other hand has demonstrated Long Range ICBM capability with the launching of its first satellite back in 1998. So Israel can deliver their nukes farther and more accurately than anyone else in the Middle East. Its THAT delivery factor that fosters the hypocritical stand Israel takes.

And lets not forget that the US is pursuing spying charges against an Israeli here in the US: his target, the USA, and his masters, the Israelis. So I am for Israel AND Iran on this. Everyone come clean now and diffuse the issue.

reply to post by Mr.x211


I agree-to an extent about Iranian influence versus the US in Iraq and Afghanistan,but we should come up with either a political answer or come with a full scale invasion of the ENITRE mid east,this "in between stuff"isn't working.


Really I think the US needs to stop baking Israel and pull out of the mid east and let NATO deal with it,then have EVERY nation inspected-it's a complecated situation right now with Iran and Israel.

Personally I think ALL nations(US included)should DISARM from nuclear weapons and all nations should keep a reserve in a INTERNATIONAL COALITION like the UN and NATO for use in extreme situations,but thats my opinion....a damn good one I think

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by ludaChris

 

It's not that easy. As soon as they pull out of the treaty, neocons will use that as "proof" that Iran is building nuclear weapons, and will start a war with Iran. What Iran is saying here is that they're being scrutinized and over-inspected because Israel and the US assumes it has nuclear weapons, when they don't, and yet Israel has weapons and yet no one bothers to investigate them.

The fact of the matter is, Israel can stay off the treaty and have nuclear technology, but Iran cannot because doing so would make US and Israel invade them.

So do India, Pakistan, and possibly North Korea. I know there is an agenda for war with Iran, and it will probably come to fruition regardless of this trivial little matter(and it is in the grand scheme of things). Seriously though, what can anyone do about anyone who has nuclear weapons who supposedly shouldn't? Be it Isreal, Pakistan, India, or Iran. The neocons don't need the proof of nuclear weapons to go to war here, all they need is repeated tampering in Iraq and a major incident. Just my opinion of course, because since when has public opinion dissuaded them?

Yes that is the fact of the matter, because they were smart enough not to sign it, the do have nuclear weapons and can have them. And what is the world going to do about it? I was merely pointing out that Iran signed it and Israel didn't. Are you saying that you have to abide by some treaty that you didn't sign? Would you feel obligated to fulfill a contract you didn't agree to? Would you stand for someone trying to force you to fulfill an agreement you never entered? I'm just simply pointing out the simple logic. Its pretty much set in stone that Israel has nukes, thats a general consensus. Whether Iran has them or is working on them is iffy, but I'd be willing to make a small wager they are. It wouldn't make sense for them not to. I'm not justifying war with them as I could care less if they have them or not. Life isn't fair, get over it.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by ludaChris]

Originally posted by jkrog08
Personally I think ALL nations(US included)should DISARM from nuclear weapons and all nations should keep a reserve in a INTERNATIONAL COALITION like the UN and NATO for use in extreme situations,but thats my opinion....a damn good one I think

The last thing this world needs is Nuclear weapons under UN control. I don't trust the UN any further than I can throw it. We don't need the corrupt, we're gonna try and legislate the world UN. We have enough corruption of our own to deal with.

reply to post by jkrog08


A "reserve" of nuclear weapons? No thank you very much please.

I like them right where they are untill the day that they are never needed. Then we can just destroy them.

I have read a lot of this thread, and as is the habit of most longer threads, I will add this and it will be ignored. ALL of you on this thread have distorted facts to suit your argument. Isreal took land so they could have a buffer zone. It is as simple as that. Now ME countries cry about it. All muslims are not extreme, AND THERE ARE MORE DEVOUT CHRISTIANS IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAN HERE!! But we cry about that.
However, there are alot of nut-job extremists who may or may not be funded by legal states there. So there is no such thing as a wholesale solution to this problem.

But I wouldn't start telling a people that were almost wiped off the earth just 50 years ago that they have to give up the biggest deterrent they have.

Israel just wants to be at peace....An exporter of islamic revolution cant and hopefully wont be allowed to get nuclear weapons in my opinion. Who would israel proliferate to? The united states or canada? This is in no way an equal situation. Lets face it, radical islam is spreading and it's a religion based in hatred. It reminds me of the crusades. You can go off on the US all you want but what would you rather have, civilized societys or unrest all the time? We diddnt cause this. These people cant even get along with each other. They even bomb other non muslim countries like spain. They are taking over france. When and if we leave Iraq they will slaughter each other too, just watch. Comparing israel to iran is like comparing an apple with a volkswagen in my opinion. They arent playing payback. They would be doing it anyways to advance islamic revolution. If they were peaceful they wouldnt even be in iraq or trying to sabatoge democracy in lebanon.

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by jetxnet
You are from England? Hmmmm .. Arab living in England?

Er, no. Firstly, why would an Arab in England have an avatar saying "Proud Englishman" and "always loyal"?

Because they would be "proud Englishmen" and "always loyal"?
You realize that applies to them as well correct?

I realize Jet's comment was meant to be a dig, but it really is a silly one and should not even be addressed. What would it matter if you were an Arab anyway?

- Lee