Iran rejects nuclear inspections unless Israel allows them

Iran is doing a smart thing here,eventhough from what I have read here and online Israel has not signed any kind of treaty,but still a good move.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by jetxnet

 

I'd be pretty pissed off if someone carved up England and gave it to a group of immigrants.

Welcome to America.

Where I live we have the worst traffic in the nation now, as I drive in it I notice 70% of them in it are Mexicans or Middle Eastern.

The police won't even arrest Illegal aliens, but they will citizens.

We've been sold out, just to let you know the 'American Status'

Originally posted by _Del_

Originally posted by neformore
All they need to do is give a period of notice and they can leave the NPT, legally.

Of course, the propagandists would have a field day with that, so I doubt Iran would do it.

They signed it freely they can leave it freely (with 90 days notice).

Exactly.

And Iran does not have to stay on the treaty.

Well,...look at the example that was set for the world by shrub, as in Kyoto. However, I'm not sure if he gave the required notice first. If he can just back out of treaties then everyone else can too.

Hey, the Iranians aren't stupid. I might like to think of them as barbaric and intolerant, but they aren't stupid. Good ploy, Iran

reply to post by jetxnet


Actually that's not what was said at all. He said the zionist israeli regime must be wiped off the map. A regime is not a country. The neo conservative american regime must be wiped off the map as well. Does that mean America? Hell no. It means it 's # for brains government. Israel has caused more trouble over there than any country including the u.s., which is really just kissing their ass anyway. That's because your government is so infiltrated by zionists and israeli double citizens, you don't know where they leave off and you begin. Get your information from somewhere beside fox or the msm....you'll be doing yourself a huge favour.

Originally posted by jetxnet
Israels prime minister didn't profess that "Iran will be wiped off the face of the Earth".

Who made a similar statement, but about Israel (clue: he is the President of Iran)?

Well you're wrong cos he didn't. The only "person" that said that of Isreal was the idiot who mistranslated the original statement. Of course now that that this mistake has been re-iterated many many times by the "lets nuke Iran brigade" it must be true.

You know, I read the first page and the last, and it all pretty much sounds the same. In my opinion, the best thing the west can do is normalize trade and relations with countries like Iran and Cuba. By doing so you start to export culture to these nations. The people of Iran have never been the issue and with over 60% of the population being under the age of 35, I doubt it will be. Yes they have a hardline streak, so doesn't every other nation, but if we open ourselves up with friendship to these nations, down the road they will become allies not enemies.

The U.S. government in particular needs to understand that the people are sick of paying for empire building. I for one very much think this. Instead of a foreign policy that is written, developed, and deployed by 60-70 yr old men who are pissed about past trangressions, we need new blood that has an open mind.

The only reason why Iran is an enemy is because we don't respect them. Learn to respect, accept, and develop friendship, and we would have alot less enemies.

BTW, I fully support Isreal, this being said, the U.S. needs to stop paying for the welfare state of the world, we can't afford it. Isreal being one of the largest recievers of Aid, needs to learn to stand on there own, or become a territory.

IT IS NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE U.S. GOVERMENT TO SEND AID TO ANYONE. If the people want to do this, so be it, but the goverment should spend BILLIONS of dollars on aid, that we don't have.

Cheers,

Camain

reply to post by jasonhb


Your arguments are a damn joke, seriously, where do you come up with this stuff you spout, sounds like it's right out of the Republican's Strategy Guide or something.

Israel just wants to be at peace....

They sure have a funny way of going about to gain it don't they..

Funny that it's been engaged in low-intensity conflicts ever since it's inception.
I suggest you seriously look at these links, and then tell me how damn peaceful Israel looks:

www.telegraph.co.uk...[/ur l]
[url]http://hrw.org/reports/1997/isrleb/Isrleb.htm
domino.un.org...!OpenDocument
www.democracynow.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...

An exporter of islamic revolution cant and hopefully wont be allowed to get nuclear weapons in my opinion.

Iran is exporting an Islamic Revolution?

How exactly do you export a revolution that rose up in one country to another? So your saying Iran is exporting Islamic propaganda to other Islamic countries in a sinister attempt to try and start an Islamic revolution? Riiight, that adds up.

For god's sake stop repeating this line, it's been debunked about 10,000 times by a lot of people including myself.
Iran is not exporting anything. They are Shiites. The rest of the ME is Sunni, Sunnis don't view Shias as legitimate Muslims, I seriously doubt their going to accept a Shia form of government any time soon or follow in their footsteps.

Who would israel proliferate to? The united states or canada? This is in no way an equal situation.

No one, it would keep them all for themselves and use them to aggressively threaten it's Arab neighbors. Israel doesn't give a dime to anyone, including it's #1 Pal and supplier of military hardware the US of A, who just last year sent them 2.16 billion dollars in "aid".

The danger is not in proliferation regarding Israel, it's in the actual possibility that they wouldn't hesitate to use them which is scary.
They've demonstrated they have little regard for conventions, treaties and ceasefires and won't hesitate to attack 50 civilians if they can scratch one terrorist.
And they have Nuclear weapons...
Oohh What a comforting situation.

Lets face it, radical islam is spreading and it's a religion based in hatred. It reminds me of the crusades. You can go off on the US all you want but what would you rather have, civilized societys or unrest all the time? We diddnt cause this.

Let's face it your a crackpot bubbling with bigotry.
Where was Osama Bin Laden 20 years ago smart guy? Or Al-Qaeda? Or Ayman Al-Zahari? Or the rise in Islamic Fundamentalism? The Taliban?
All those ragheads as you categorize them, where were they?

Nowhere to be found.
Yet, after the US decides to occupy Saudi Arabia, invade Iraq, jam it's nose up Palestine's as*, bomb Libya, invade Afghanistan, and go back into Iraq for seconds..

Suddenly... terrorism explosion! A day doesn't pass without a suicide bombing or attack... Coincidence?

Your lack of general history is astounding, you mentally block out every questionable foreign policy action in America's history, and act like they're not to blame..

As for the Crusades, I can see your point actually.
Western Christians invading the Middle East and taking Jerusalem back from the Saracens because well they didn't like the fact Muslims had control over all the sacred relics of Christianity, even though they allowed Christians and Jews alike to worship all they wanted.

Quite analogous to Iraq don't you think? "Mmm me jealous, me addicted to oil, who has Oil? Iraq. Raaaahh!"

[edit on 7/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

These people cant even get along with each other. They even bomb other non muslim countries like spain. They are taking over france. When and if we leave Iraq they will slaughter each other too, just watch.

Yeah I'm watching buddy.. I watched Iraq go from one dictatorship to another, from a moderately industrial Middle Eastern nation, to poorer than Albania or Sudan. Can't get more fked up than that, and wh

Tell me how many Muslim nations are currently in a state of war with another Muslim nation? (Pssst: zero)

Of course when you leave Iraq chaos will ensue, because there is no freakin' government installed (albeit some US puppet) and there are no freakin' security forces.
I'd like to see how civilized the USA would look with no Army, no cops and a foreign-installed Government. You guys would descend into anarchy within hours.

You started the sh*tstorm and now you must stop it.
Iraqis cannot stop what they didn't start. Neither can Iran. It's America's duty to resolve conflict in Iraq and develop a stable and functioning government, you choose to occupy it, leave with the fkn consequences. Don't blame fanatics and towelheads when you can't even cobble together a makeshift army together and keep control over a nation the size of Texas.

The Iraqi Insurgency isn't the one that decommissioned Saddam's Army, or installed a puppet regime. Neither are they the ones Iraqi civilians want out of their country.

Your other comments are not even worth mentioning. They're misdirected, racist attacks that make absolutely no sense or relevance to what were discussing here. You sure know how trail off onto a tangent don't you?

If they were peaceful they wouldnt even be in iraq or trying to sabatoge democracy in lebanon.

Can you show me where exactly in Iraq are they? I don't see too many Iranians running around on the streets of Baghdad blowing stuff up.

What about Lebanon? Hezbollah has more than 60% support from the Lebanese population. The Lebanese decide what kind of government they want and who they want running it. And they have decided. Iran didn't install Hezbollah in Lebanon as a terrorist group, Hezbollah has been around since Iran was in a crib. They rose up organically as a resistance movement against Israelis.

The Iran-Hezbollah connection is a pretty weak link. You want to compare apples and oranges, how about Israel and the US?

You guys are practically engaged on the global stage, Israel doesn't take a dump without first consulting America and America doesn't hesitate for one minute to cut back on weapons shipments to Israel.
You want to talk about state-sponsored terrorism, there's a shining example for you. Stick that in your pipe... or bong, whichever you smoke from.

The simple fact is you can't see through the smokescreen Bush had clouded the American people's vision with.
The #1 threat to stability and peace in the Middle East is the US. Above all else your presence in Iraq guarantees there will be terrorist attacks in the West and gives a valid excuse for Jihadists to spout their hatred and plot attacks. You provide fuel to fire, simple as that.

Your essentially their number #1 recruiting agency. Nobody else can send waves of Fundamentalism and Extremism surging throughout the Arab world like you guys can.

Whether your flushing Qurans down toilets in Guantanamo, building human pyramids at Abu-Ghraib, giving Israel new toys to kill Palestinian kids with or "accidentally" blowing up houses in Afghanistan you sure know how make Osama and Islamic Fundamentalists real happy don't you?


[edit on 7/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

[edit on 7/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Smart move...they know exactly what to say to get the useful idiots riled up...

Originally posted by jetxnet
You will convert to Islam Godfather or die.

You see the difference? Do you realize that Iran is indeed an extremist radical Muslim society (at least those at the top are)?

Iran would do much more harm to the Middle East than Israel ever would.

A Nuclear Iran is a very scary proposition, for all countries in the Middle East, not just Israel.


Edit: Do you think Israel would just sit by and let Palastine keep doing Suicide bombings in Israel? Aren't those people killed by suicide bombs innocent too?

[edit on 6-5-2008 by jetxnet]

We are not even aware what harm Israel or any country is doing. We just sit and stare. It is impossible for us to analyze what exactly is taking place.
But even then, radical islamists or radical rednecks are recognized by their talk and their money.
The harm that Russia, the US and China are doing with their armstrade is visible in the whole world. Wherever their are wars and armsdeals, those countries are making money. Untill now Iran is not making money with weapons, I believe. They are just shouting about the superiority of their believes and making money with oil and living their lives in a undemocratic suppressing society, just like we did for ages. They are in no position to hurt the rest of the world. US and Russian secret services are inside.

The land lives of oil. It would be insane for Iran to attack another country. Nobody buys their oil anymore and they get squashed. So what is happening? My guess is that there are characters that want to play monopoly. And they will. One of persons that was trying to avoid this is removed from the board: general Bill Fallon

I am curious what will happen now.




[edit on 7-5-2008 by Pjotr]

reply to post by Ruggeder


Know much about British history then? Apparently not...

Exactly how did England "steal" Scotland? Enlighten me, this should be amusing....

As for Wales, the country didn't even exist in the 12th century when the English clashed with the local Lords and the history is alot more complex than just "England invaded", you know. Same with Ireland, the North is populated by Scottish immigrants, so don't bitch about English taking the land.

All of the biggest imperialist leaders in British history have been Scottish or Welsh, but the English get the bad name. So before you come in here with your size 12's perhaps you might like to acquaint yourself with actual history.

If its good for the goose then the gander? just fine. Why should Isreal be exempt from having its massive nuclear weapons program examined?

Originally posted by FredT
If its good for the goose then the gander? just fine. Why should Isreal be exempt from having its massive nuclear weapons program examined?

They are exempt to the treaty (and it's benefits) because they are not a signatory. Iran has every right to leave the treaty and pursue nuclear weapons.

I just want to clear up my position here, since people keep "accusing" me of being overly anti-American, or anti-Israeli; while denying that Iran is rogue and dangerous state.

First off, I'm not going to deny that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollahs do harbor some anti-Israeli and US sentiment. He has made some not-so-scholarly opinions on world history and foreign policy, his Al-Quds militia probably does send weapons and fund to insurgents in Iraq and Lebanon and his record of humans rights is dubious at best BUT...
he's a relatively new president and nobody really knows what he's capable of.

That being said, just because he walks like a hardliner and talks like a hardliner doesn't make it so.
Iran is all smoke and mirrors and no action on the world stage. He may talk tough but I doubt he is seriously considering going through with invading Israel or Iraq at the moment.
He's a smart man, despite what the general consensus is; he has a Phd in Engineering, a doctorate and Master in Science, and he knows his history. He knows full well how fixated the Western World is on him currently, and that George Bush is widely unpredictable and perhaps even contemplating striking Iran.

The problem is, Iran hasn't done anything physically to invoke this kind of response and all this attention from the West. They have, so far been a completely passive state in the Middle East with little influence on anyone but Shiites, as Shiites are persecuted in the rest of the ME, and look up to Iran as somewhat of a bastion for Shia beliefs and causes.

They're reasons for Nuclear Enrichment shouldn't be so heavily scrutinized, if these people genuinely want Nuclear Power, then by all means the US should not stop them.
Why are Pakistan, India and Israel, all 3 states which are currently engaged in low-intensity conflicts and have publically stated they would be willing to use Nuclear weapons in certain situations allowed not only the ability to develop reactors, but also delivery systems without any cause for alarm??

Iran has a right to Nuclear Power if they want to.
They're population has more than doubled in 20 years, the country regularly imports gasoline and electricity to provide enough power for it's citizens, and on top of that burns fossil fuel in large amounts; not only extremely wasteful but extremely polluting.
Their oilfields are being depleted and a large minority of Iranians live with out electricity or water. Those are perfectly acceptable reasons to diversify their power production.

Hell, if the US is so preoccupied with judging nations by their history why didn't we stop the Germans or Japanese when they built reactors? These guys could enrich tons of Uranium a month if they wanted, but yet Iran, a former US ally can't even build a centrifuge without the Bush going apesh*t.

The smear campaign against Mahmoud and Iran I think is evidence enough Bush and the Republicans want to go to war with this guy. They know there is little hard evidence, and too much speculation currently to justify any military action that's why they're trying to discredit him on every possible level, but they haven't been able to successfully.

From claiming he wants "Wipe Israel off the map", denies the Holocaust, all those rumors about him being one of the Tehran Hostage Takers back in 1979, is anti-semitic, sponsors terrorists, etc...
It's all a big farce, the same step-by-step process they went through with Iraq to get the world to see Saddam as a bogeyman, rather than a paper tiger.
And we all know how duped we were by the Bush Admin before, so don't fall for it again.

Mahmoud is NOT anti-semitic, he may hate Israel but he hates their government above all else, not Jews:

...some people think if they accuse me of being anti-Jew they can solve the problem. No, I am not anti-Jew ... I respect them very much ...

news.bbc.co.uk...



The "Israel off the map" speech has widely been debunked as a mistranslation or a complete fabrication by Washington.
www.mohammadmossadegh.com...
www.juancole.com...

There is no solid evidence that he was a hostage taker back in 1979 in the US Embassy Crisis in Tehran, apart from one dubious photo and the US State Department's claim that some witnesses reported he looked like a hostage taker.
upload.wikimedia.org...

Even though the CIA stated themselves, with "relative certainty" he was NOT a hostage taker. Link: www.cnn.com...

Some people are actually waking up and seeing through the fog of ambiguity and confusion Washington spreads deliberately, to see that these accusations are all ultimately baseless, and secondly extremely analogous to Iraq.

They want to discredit this guy in every which way so they dig up any piece of dirt they can, give it a spin and publish it as fact.
They know they have no hard evidence of WMD's to justify war so the only thing they can resort to now is childish name-calling and a rumor-mill to fool people into thinking this man is dangerous.

All I'm saying is, give Iran a break. If nations like Israel can have Nuclear Power, so can Iran. The hypocrisies displayed in US Foreign Policy are not fair and not justified.
Iran has done little to evoke such a staunchly bad reputation in America, and has much reason to fear an American attack.
US Foreign Policy has to stop picking sides and stop playing "Good Cop, Bad Cop" whenever it suits them.
Unless some damning allegations and evidence surface, Iran just needs to be left alone and not forced into a corner before it's really forced to do something drastic.

Who would you rather give a reactor to, a nation who's constantly at war or a nation who has been sitting on the fence for a majority of its history?

[edit on 8/5/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Hi there,

I agree that Iran is all posturing. They have not participated in any significant conflict that I am aware of, but they are obviously very intimidated by the treatment of Iraq (as it's so close, I can understand it).

The thing is, they don't do themselves any favours. Electing a president who will go around screaming militantly how they are the strongest nation in the world when clearly they aren't is like saying "yeah, you think so huh? huh? well, what you didn't know is I brought my daddy's gun...". It makes it look like they are harbouring nuclear weapons, because that's the only possible reason they would have for spouting off. Anyone with any sense would just keep their heads down and cooperate.

I do not agree on your position on Israel. I'm not saying they are perfect, everyone has an agenda and everyone makes mistakes, but let's break this down for a second into what has happened, into (very) approximate time frames:

1200 BC - Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt.
1120 BC - Joshua leads the conquest of Canaan, the Promised Land, the land given to them by the God of Abraham.
586 BC - Babylonians conquer Israel, leading to the Babylonian captivity. The first Temple is destroyed.
527 BC - Babylonians conquered by Persia, Babylonian captivity ends, Cyrus allows the building of the Second Temple.
332 BC - Alexander conquers the Persian Empire, and lays the way for Hellenistic domination of the Middle East and Asia. Israel is significantly Hellenised under culturally-Greek rulers who want to remove the Jews.
66 BC - Conquered by Pompey for the Romans.
640 AD - Conquered from the Eastern (Byzantine) Roman Empire by the Muslim Arabs.
1099 AD - Crusades begin, territory exchanges hands often between Turks and Christians.
1918 AD - Middle East conquered by the British from the Ottoman Turks during WW1.
1948 AD - British leave Middle East after WW2, and assign the nation of Israel for the Jews.
1948 AD - Israel is immediately invaded by Egypt and Syria...

...and I'm sure you know the rest.

What I'm saying is, the Muslims have absolutely no more right to that land than the Jews, who were there 1800 years before Islam even existed. The entire Middle East has been determined by conquest. As the last people to conquer it were the British, and they decided how it would be (as dictated from the Bible), that is how it is. The Arab nations around it may desperately want the land back...but they aren't entitled to it. And they can't take it by force, so they are just going to have to lump it.

Add that to the fact that every war Israel has been involved in has been INITIATED BY THEIR NEIGHBOURS (in bold, because I want you to get that this is the important bit) and they have been under constant attack for 60 years, it's no wonder they are at the end of their tether, and just not prepared to take it any more.

In the words of Winston Churchill, Islam is a militant and prosetylizing faith. If the Israeli's lose just one war against the Arabs, there is no more Israel. The Arabs have lost a lot of wars to Israel and had remarkably equitable treatment. I would have given them a taste of their own medicine and held mass conversions.

The Arab nations are constantly, constantly playing the victim, and you have fallen for it hook, line and copy of the Koran.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira



I agree to the most part of your post, i am a Pakistani and a Shiite Muslim and just let you know Pakistan is the 2nd Largest Shiite Country After Iran (surprise)... You said Middle East is Sunni, well every one did believe Iraq is Sunni... Now you can see it was infact a Shiite State.... likewise Shiite are very well represented in all Middle eastern countries... and unlike Sunni, Shiite are very much associated with each other no matter what in which country they live... that's the real concern for US and they have not attacked Iran yet...!!!!!!

No one knows where would things lead to if US ever attack Iran... i doubt it will be a chaos that no one ever has experienced yet...


Yes you're right, the West need to respect Iranians... as they say love begets love... and i tell you... the day US stops its Aid for Israel they would become worst nightmare of US if not already....!!!!

Is anyone else getting strong Deja vu here? I'm sure they made a plan to invade Iran after the lunch break of planning Iraq pre-911. They say history repeats itself but damn, that was quick.

reply to post by dark_matter06


Well, think the US should just let othe countries deal with their own issues,unless they threaten us(the USA).

reply to post by jetxnet


Jetxet,

I am a Jewish American and I hate to sayit but Me and many other members of the community are disgusted by what Israel did to Lebanon over 1 Kidnapped missing soldier, Many Christians lost there lives when Israel specifically targeted Civilians hoping that they would turn on Hezbollah... All in all many Jewish Americans are no longer standing behind Israel. Iran is a danger for sure.. but only if pushed over the edge.. And it is true Iran has a very large Jewish community.. If the U.S attacks Iran which Israel wants.. we will have many casualties... Please wake up. If Israel really wants peace it should stop its aggression on all the neighboring states and stop taking Palestinian land..