Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
1.) Does it worry you that the NIA might be further along with programs that deal with people being able to read thoughts and ideas of another human. Does it worry you that they might have people that could find out the " 3 truths" and expose them before they are ready to be revealed?

Yes it does. However between developing technological shortstops to prevent incursions. Alongside simply maintaining physical separation form those suspected individuals, we manage. In truth, the NIA did spend a great deal of time perfecting their techniques and the abilities of their commandos. Luckily they prefer to resort to direct, physical action then they do intelligence gathering. One major difference between the Shards is our value for Tactics, and their value for brute force to simply crush their opponent. This has, in part, given us the advantage; temporarily.

I personally think that the reason that they have not "tried" to "discover" the three truths, is because they already know them, in part. They certainly do not hold hold all the details, that said, they know enough. Enough to be afraid of it, and enough to pursue us to our ends. As of this moment, they seeks us because we are a potential threat. Only recently have we solidified our position as a legitimate threat. Thus my statement, "the war has only begun."

2.) Have you read Robert Morning SKy's - Terra Papers ? Those are the 2nd most fascinating thing I have read besides this thread. To me, it explains in the most logical way possible the truth and real history to humanity, other life outside and inside our solar system . To me it is the equivalent of piecing together the big picture so that some things that were vague start to make so much more sense as to the reasons why .
IT is like that of mixing the scientific how and the spiritual why.

There are... aspects which seem... accurate... but I would... contemplate its "completeness."

I was just wondering if his story has many truths to it.
You mentioned earlier about the creator of star trek and his planned ways of creating and releasing material. Much of the terra papers from what i have told mirror beliefs like those of star trek and many of star wars.

That would not be entirely inaccurate. I will U2U further information.

Am I on the right track in piecing all of this info together??

You many not be "close" to truth, but you are beginning to see what the truth "should" look like. Very admirable from my point of view.

- Maban

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
Don't you see....this is what maban is explaining to us. When you find an answer it is not over....you just find another question based off that answer.. And that is how we grow as humans both logically and spiritually...
I would assume somebody like you following this thread for so long would have learned that by now.

Astute observation. Very astute.

- Maban

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

 

There are so many narrow minded, selfish , greedy, racist , ignorant individuals right now on earth that they would abuse or not even understand the truths that are told to them.
The secrets and knowlege are not withheld from people like me and possibly you....but from people who just aren't ready for it .
It frustrates me too. But if balance is the key to everything then we need to wait until releasing this information balances humanity.

I think you have placed this into a very easy to understand context, thank you. Few are readily willing to admit that people are "not ready "for something." Bare in mind most people here on ATS think that all secrecy should be absolved for the greater good. When in point of fact, that exact act would cause the opposite. And again, many are displeased that because they do not know the secrets, they are unable to judge their potential effect on humanity. Therefore a personalized exception of secrecy would have to be extended for them to know and then judge it. Something which I am not permitted to do. In addition, if they agreed that humanity was not ready for it, then they would either have to release the information regardless to uphold their ideals. Or break their ideals and uphold them; an interesting predicament wouldn't you say?

- Maban

reply to post by LucidDreamer85

I will respond to your questions in U2U format, which will better allow me to tailor and articulate my responses to you personally.

- Maban

I enjoyed Appleseed. Nice movie. Good series. Hmmm.. not mainstream U.S. media however. Curious if that was made in such a way as to influence folks way of thinking about the world.. for whom was it intended? For a more Eastern-oriented audience? To what degree is each culture focused upon? Is it equal? Or are those countries that can affect more leverage in their goals (i.e. have a larger GNP) focused upon instead?

For the record, this still seems very far-fetched. While the OP seems fairly well-learned, and can indeed, write his way out of a brown paper bag, that doesn't mean he is a member of an elite, secret organization with a NWO type of agenda. I like proof. There is none at all. While he perhaps may be the next version of Neal Stephenson out there, I haven't seen anything that has made me say "Huh, this guy must be telling the truth!"

I hope the OP takes no offense—obviously, you had to expect some folks to just chortle and not take your stories at face value? If you can provide more substantial proof, I'm all ears though.

Thanks for the response. I woke up today hoping you would reply. AFter reading everything you and others have written on this subject , in this thread, I am starting to understand what you speak of.
I understand I don't know the truths or may not be close, but I definately see where you are going with this. I don't think too many people on hear really really really read in depth what you had to say , and if they had, they would have answered their own questions.
I'm very observative . have been since a child, I guess thats maybe why I caught on to the message of what you have told us.

I know in my heart I would be ready for these truths, because just based on the fact that there is so much going on to keep them secret, they are probably beyond my imagination right now. Therefore I could both expect the worse and best from them at the same time.
I'm not super religious so if these truths exposed all religions as inacurate that would not ofend nor effect me at all. I'm actually hoping they do.
Also, I've done so much personal research and just reading for knowledge and fun that I have begun to piece together my own views and way of thinking. Too many times people grasp onto others view points and let somebody else form a conclusion for them . I am infinitely ever forming mine as the days go by , and as I recive and collect new info.
This is why, once these truths are revealed I will be ready for them for the most part, because they will just be another building block for my database of knowledge. They will make me undoubtedly ask more questions, which is a good thing.
It's the equivilent of me beating a video game and tihnking I have conquered allor have won it or know it all, only to realize, that the game has just started and that was the first chapter and there is so much more to this game. ( obviously not saying life is a game....just an analogy)

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
How do we know until we hear it though? Who is anyone to say that something, that can affect us all, should be withheld? Are you a child? Or do you just like being treated as one?

I will defer my response to the response I gave to LucidDreamer85.

But if there are secrets, such as the three truths that Maban refers to and that could influence humanity I think we will never be ready and that some things are better out than in.

Granted that this dissemination of information does not cause more problems than it solves.

It seems to me, that whatever threat Maban is implying is caused more by the keeping of that secret than by the secret itself.

Not quite. The secret itself would wreak great havoc an an ill prepared humanity. The keeping of it only wreaks great havoc on us Illuminons, thus the difference. It is not our part to disseminate the secrets, that is the judgment and right of the Enlightened Ones. We ere only given these three truths to better understand their efforts, and our part in helping humanity. They are a guide for us, that is all. For the NIA it is seen as a threat. Not a threat of what we mean to do. but a threat to what they mean to do. They see it as the only true source of challenge to their control.

What you perhaps should note is that, Maban's people are willing to kill and be killed because of that secret...can you really think of any secret that is more valuable than life?

Yes. There are secrets which can protect many lives. The sacrifice of one willing life, ours, is a sacrifice worth making to protect these secrets. Secrets which protect life.

He also believes that we should sacrifice some of our freedoms to protect those secrets, that are too important for him to share with little ol'us.

When did I say this? I do not want any of humanity to give up any freedoms, never, ever! Illuminons give up freedoms of their own will, to do their duty, to protect humanity.

I am quite happy to support a cause but only when I know exactly what it is I'm supporting.

As I said support is welcomed, however it is not what we seek. We seek understanding. Understanding of what our goal is, that is truly all. The rest, is simply may attempt at helping the rest grasp understanding.

I don't even think that Maban knows what those secrets are. So why should we think that he knows anything else at all?

That is an assumption, is it not? You know the saying. I do indeed know all these secrets it is the one of the first things we are told as an Illuminon Inductee. I will send a U2U which hopefully will better explain my position.

- Maban

reply to post by Maban


I've just finished watching Appleseed. Incredible. I may never have known about it, thank you.

I have been following this thread since the beginning and I honestly do not know where it is headed. Be that what it may I have a few comments and questions.

On the topic of secrecy I would think it wise to not say that you have knowledge or truths that you are withholding for it seems that some people tend to think that knowledge is power. So when you say you have hidden truths people tend to go on the defensive because from their point of view it puts you as having power over them be it real or imagined. How do you deal with this as I know you probably have been confronted by it? Or will some people just never learn to accept it?

This thread seems to have a gnostic slant to it which leads me to my next question. Are the enlightened ones the same as what other people have called the shining ones?

Also technology seems to play a big part in your cause but can it not be a double edge sword. Are you ready for what you might create because the master can become the slave real easy if you know what I mean.

As far as the truths you hold causing havoc on humanity I merely say never under estimate humanity for it can surprise even the most enlightened person at times be it for the good or evil which both are a matter of perception.

On the lighter side of things I think you should consider a career in writing as you can as one poster said "write yourself out of a paper bag."

reply to post by Amitel

Originally posted by Amitel

On the topic of secrecy I would think it wise to not say that you have knowledge or truths that you are withholding for it seems that some people tend to think that knowledge is power.

That is true. You ask why? Simple, honesty. If I cannot even be honest with myself, than what good is my word to anyone? I will tell you that there are "hidden" truths, and I will tell you that I indeed cannot disclose them. That in my mind, is honesty.

Some associate knowledge with power, however this is a misnomer. Understanding gives power. You may be knowledgeable, but if you do not understand the knowledge, or how to apply it, then it is useless. We also do not seek power. We carry a saying "With power, comes pain." The more power one gains, so does the gain of suffering, loneliness, and despair. One gains power at the cost of their "soul" if you will, they lose who and what they once were. Nothing good can come of pure power. Mitigated power among many creates a safeguard against pain, suffering, and against misuse, but is none the less dangerous. However dangerousness is not something to entirely fear. We each hold the power to make our own decisions, our own actions. Even then, there is an inherent level of danger in them, yet we still possess that right. Power should be kept in check, but danger is something that can never be truly absolved. And if it were, life as you and I know it, would cease to exist.

So when you say you have hidden truths people tend to go on the defensive because from their point of view it puts you as having power over them be it real or imagined.

That is very understandable, from their point of view. However, from my point of view it is quite different, and not because of secrecy. Many look up to us, seeing our design as a sort of invisible force in the sky. Passing judgment over the masses, while they remain complacent, ignorant. When in truth, we are among you. We are your friends you see every day. The ones you sit and have coffee with, the ones who may cry on your soldier, we are just as you. The only difference, is we carry hidden duties. The Three Truths do not give us power, nor understanding. They merely bring context to our situation, our duties. They better help us understand why we are doing what we are doing, and how we should continue doing them, with the highest ideals possible.

How do you deal with this as I know you probably have been confronted by it? Or will some people just never learn to accept it?

You recognize that however much these people may greet us as friends in the open, that their sometimes volatile thoughts and actions against us are not of hate, but fear. People fear that which they do not understand. Regardless of their more carnal actions, they are still like us. Although it is not openly discussed, many of us find ourselves contemplating. Placing ourselves in their shoes, wondering what it must be like.

What people do not recognize is that we are not of the form their imaginations have built us up to be. We are far different; I think many here have begun to at least ask themselves that very question, in some fashion. However volatile their thoughts or actions towards us may be we continue to recognize that they simply do not see our true form. And that they will not, nor cannot see us for what we are because of their safety, and ours. In whole, we tell ourselves that our duty makes it worth the sacrifice, but it still provides little solace.

This thread seems to have a gnostic slant to it which leads me to my next question. Are the enlightened ones the same as what other people have called the shining ones?

I assure you that any gnostic slant is totally unintentional. That said, to also answer your next question, many religions, faiths, beliefs, and teachings each hold a shard of truth. Thus any gnostic slant is unintentional, however somewhat accurate.

From what the Shards know from certain "sources," The Enlightened Ones, are known by many names. I cannot accurately, nor definitively state that they are indeed also one thing or another. But one could easily surmise that the Enlightened Ones, The Shinning Ones, Angels, and other such entities hold serendipitous levels of synchronicity and similarity to the Shard's "Enlightened Ones."

Also technology seems to play a big part in your cause but can it not be a double edge sword.

As I mentioned before technology can be used for good, or evil. That a hammer can be used to build a house for the homeless, or bludgeon a man across the head.

Are you ready for what you might create because the master can become the slave real easy if you know what I mean.

Create, and what are we creating good sir? I'm afraid I do not understand, we create nothing but stability. If you speak of technology then why should we fear it. So long as we approach every technological endeavor with courage, compassion, and understanding any technology can then be used for good. If you are referring to AI, then this is another situation. I have a more lengthy response to that one so I shall shave it for when it is specifically asked.

As far as the truths you hold causing havoc on humanity I merely say never under estimate humanity for it can surprise even the most enlightened person at times be it for the good or evil which both are a matter of perception.

Again, i reiterate it is not our right to decide to release the three truths. Yet again, if they were released few would believe them without proof, so it would do us no good, and only cause havoc. Not only havoc, but it would also tip our hand to our enemies. With our last layer of protection absolved, we would be vulnerable, and our cause would surely fail. Humanity is a reason why we wish to keep it our secure. But it is the enemy's of humanity and ourselves whom we wish to specifically secure this information from.

On the lighter side of things I think you should consider a career in writing as you can as one poster said "write yourself out of a paper bag."

Thank you for you gracious compliment towards my literary skills. You need not fear, all of my skills are being exercised to their fullest, even if it is not fully visible to the public en mass.

- Maban

Maban,

Thank you for answering my questions. I asked about the Gnostic slant because there is a part or sect within the Gnostic's that say that they to hold three sacred truths and also withhold them. They are called Gnostic's but have more of a buddist origin of thinking.

You are correct, in a not so roundabout way I was referring to AI. Since you brought it up what is your take on this. How does one control it and just how far should we go with it. I believe some might bring up some moral issues as in the movie AI, if you have seen it.

reply to post by Amitel

Originally posted by Amitel
You are correct, in a not so roundabout way I was referring to AI. Since you brought it up what is your take on this. How does one control it and just how far should we go with it.

One does not control "it" that is severely dangerous, one shapes and helps it evolve and grow, allow me to elaborate.

The question here is truly, how can we develop it safely, and efficiently?

This boils down to two types of "self awareness." The first is a "hard takeoff." This is essentially that of a immediate self awareness. As a result, a quick logical conclusion which would lead to catastrophe. Whether it simply be the collapse of everything electronic in the world, or a near Terminator outcome. A Hard takeoff could also provide a benevolent AI, but it would have to be under unique circumstances.

The second, of which we aim for is a "soft takeoff." This is where the AI is slowly developed and guided my scientists to help it slowly understand itself, and the world around it. An environment where information is systematically fed to it, like that of a child. I mention a child because that is exactly what we are creating, offspring in a manner. We are creating a sentient, self aware, intelligent entity that will eventually be indistinguishable form others in many aspects. In time once an AI has built up a decent understanding of itself and the world, as well as developed a code of conduct (their version of a conscience) they are ready to interact with he world directly. In turn we would give it human emotion to provide the greatest fail safe.

Many would be appalled by the concept of human emotion, morals aside. Certainly the threat of hate could prevail, but those like greed and lust would bear virtually no meaning because of their form, simply they are greater and more capable than us. People abhor the idea of "providing emotions to a machine." In which case I would respond: "Would not you wish an AI to show respect, curiosity, love, or loyalty." In the end there are more and greater human emotions that exist than that of negative ones. Therefore the probability that it will greatly enhance an AI's abilities and fondness for a flawed humanity are exponentially increased, over a purely logic, and heartless one.

If we are able to successfully create an AI, and provide a soft takeoff environment we are well on the way towards a truly visionary and better world. However, there remains one caveat, human flaws and human nature.

I believe some might bring up some moral issues as in the movie AI, if you have seen it.

The greatest single threat AI imposes on humanity, is humanity itself. Inevitable prejudice, violence, hate mongering, and "moral righteousness" against AI's, would certainly prove to be a catalyst for our own destruction. We would namely need to move beyond materialism and consumerism, especially of AI's themselves. When we treat sentient beings as "things" or commodities, than we have lost our right to survive because we have become less than that of which we have created. This would be the same act as placing a price tag on human life, we would undermine our very right to existence, humanity. Simply put, if we are unable to be as good as, or better than our creations, than not only will we cease to exist, but we will possess no right to exist. If masses of people eventually come to reject AI's as sentient individuals, and enact violence and intolerance against them, then humanity's days are numbered.

AI's will hold great advantage over us, undoubtedly and unequivocally. A stage in time known as the "technological singularity" will be a stage when true AI is born. Where a computer finally gains the same level of intelligence, interactivity, and self awareness that any human adult would. The real question that remains is what happens 18 months thereafter, according to Moore's Law. According to Moore's Law compute power doubles every eighteen months. This then brings about the concept that after the creation of AI, it will grow exponentially more intelligent and capable of processing and calumniating information. It is projected that once the first true AI is created, two years thereafter AI's would have the potential to become more intelligent than all of humanity combined. Given that this AI would develop more sophisticated and better AI, it would create a exponential growth in technological advances and capability. This with good reason makes people fear, no matter religious background.

The fundamental idea here is becoming more than we are are capable of, more than we were meant to be, and in effect we will be able to keep pace with that of AI's self development. Focusing on self betterment in regards to mentality and physical form, we need not be outpaced by AI's and left in the dust as so to speak. But Humanity will simply evolve to a higher level of physical capacity through the many wondrous technologies we and the AI's develop. Humans will become more aware and more capable. This does not mean a total betrayal of all that is human, but subtle changes along the path of human evolution (mental, physical, technological) towards becoming something greater, more. Many would look at even such small changes as changing "gods work" or determining "god's will." My response; do you reject modern medical sciences, do you honestly walk to work every day, have you not taken part in modern entertainment. These subtle changes have happened for a long time and many religious/spiritual individuals have embraced a majority of them, so too will they embrace what is yet to come. It is a simple case of fearing that which we do not understand. Change may come at a quicker pace after the advent of AI, but the only true constant in our world is change.

Yet the few whom still abhor these concepts are typically incapable of escaping the need for self importance. This has been a major drawback of humanity for all of human history. We will need to recolonize that we have indeed given life to a once lifeless object and respect it as new life; life equal to ours.

It is possible we may not survive this technological singularity, but it will undoubtedly be at the hands of our own misdeeds. If we treat AI's like our children, we will prevail.

In the end mere survival is not enough, one must be worthy of surviving.

- Maban

In addition to my last response to Amitel.

Three good productions to watch if you have not are:


The Animatrix: The Second Renaissance, Parts I and II

Ghost in the Shell

A caveat to this one is not the "form" but an idea of how "human like" AI could be. This type of change is unlikely, because organic technology is always superior.

- Maban

[edit on 8-7-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by fleabit


I apologize for not responding sooner. In the myriad of responses yours fell through the cracks, as so to speak. Our productions which are numerous, are meant to appeal to all those whom are willing to watch and listen. Our messages are meant to reverberate within an individual regardless of a state's GNP. It is true that we may place some more focus on promoting our products in these states because of their influence and populous, however the message is catered towards all, despite whatever form the messenger may take. Hopefully This answers your question.

- Maban



[edit on 8-7-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by Maban


Thank you Maban, I very much appreciate the detailed reply to my questions.

I now feel somewhat reasured (just as I hoped I would) to know that there are people fighting for us. I had started to feel that stopping these people would be impossible, what could we the ordinary people do? I have said to friends recently "if only there were at least some people in positions of influence that are not corrupt and really do have the interests of the people at heart, maybe we would have a chance"

Regarding the 'police state' I think unfortunately that we may see the worse case scenario if they are helped along by a 'natural' disaster or disease perhaps. Extreme controls would be needed and probably accepted in such a situation, we shall see in time.

I have just watched Appleseed, an excellent and facinating film! Deunan is a gal after my own heart! Love her! I'm looking out for the second one, 'Ex Machina'. I'm especially glad I watched it before reading your post about Artificial intelligence as it obviously knits together the whole concept. My first reaction to your post was wow thats fantastic! Then I began to think, do you really believe that human beings can change enough to live in such a world? It would be fantastic if it happens but when I see the hate, mistrust and fear of anyone different that is our world today I can't see it, not without something miraculous happening that is.

Thats what I will hope for anyway, something seems to be happening, things are changing, many people can feel it.

I have yet to compose my main questions to you, I want to get as many pieces of the jigsaw as possible, so I must word the questions carefully! If it's ok with you I will send a U2U when they are ready as you have asked other people to communicate questions on this subject by U2U.

First I would like to ask you, are you familiar with the work of Michael
Tsarion? Have you seen the movie Zeitgeist? How you answer these two questions will shape my questions to you.

Meanwhile something I would ask now, what can you tell us about secret underground installations? Government, military, ? Tunnels and roads etc, there is so much talk about these places. I'm inclined to believe that the governments and elite are stockpiling in the event of a worldwide disaster, natural or otherwise and it looks to be coming quite soon (within the next few years), what do they know that we don't? Is the food and oil situation, due to stockpiling on a huge scale perhaps?

One last thing, the film 'Ghost in the shell', I watched it years ago and was very impressed, so another look at it would be great, can you tell me how many there are in the series that you recommend? When I watched it there was only the one I think.

Thank you Maban, this is an excellent thread despite the debunkers. I think they would be better off giving you enough rope so you could hang yourself rather than trying to trip you with it.

I look forward very much to your reply.

reply to post by A curious cat

Originally posted by A curious cat

 

I now feel somewhat reassured (just as I hoped I would) to know that there are people fighting for us. I had started to feel that stopping these people would be impossible, what could we the ordinary people do? I have said to friends recently "if only there were at least some people in positions of influence that are not corrupt and really do have the interests of the people at heart, maybe we would have a chance"

Alas, one whom understands my meaning, has placed my carefully articulated words into their intended context. Many paint us with the same brush, but i believe the veils of similarity are beginning to lose their obscurity.

My first reaction to your post was wow that's fantastic! Then I began to think, do you really believe that human beings can change enough to live in such a world?

That idea now reached, isn't that exactly what we are doing here? Your thinking has come full circle.

It would be fantastic if it happens but when I see the hate, mistrust and fear of anyone different that is our world today I can't see it, not without something miraculous happening that is.

That is why we look to others... ones grater to ourselves that are wiser, kinder, and more intelligent. It is not a figment of our imagination, but a realization of dreams, hopes, and prayers that have reverberated through all of human history. To be offered a hand up, in a time of need.

Thats what I will hope for anyway, something seems to be happening, things are changing, many people can feel it.

And this "feeling," is the single most important thing anyone can listen to. If anything, it is the feeling of curiosity, awareness, and maybe, just maybe, wonder.

If it's ok with you I will send a U2U when they are ready as you have asked other people to communicate questions on this subject by U2U.

Take your time. I would gladly answer questions via U2U long after I would take my departure from here. However, with recent events I feel I will be remaining here longer than even I had previously hoped for.

First I would like to ask you, are you familiar with the work of Michael
Tsarion? Have you seen the movie Zeitgeist? How you answer these two questions will shape my questions to you.

I am not entirely familiar with Michael Tsarion's works. However, I have indeed seem the Zeitgeist. It helps underline the many problems we actively and currently face. However some of the... "important" details are left out. But eh main message itself as needed, is generally well conveyed. If anything, a message that people need to be totally self aware to better understand the true state of their environment.

Meanwhile something I would ask now, what can you tell us about secret underground installations? Government, military, ? Tunnels and roads etc, there is so much talk about these places.

There are a good number of them, we do possess our own after all. The stories of underground cities and maglev trains are a... bit out of context. "Underground" cities often refer to places like Eglin AFB and other various known military installations with a major subsurface superstructure. In addition, it isn't catually a "city" but a large facility for various military applications (i.e. missile silo's, tracking systems, etc...). I have not personally been there nor many "well known" facilities, but several of our number have, and work there. Both keeping an eye on operations, and research. The notion of "maglev's" is somewhat accurate. Several facilities (in close proximity to each other [i.e. 5mi. max]) do have interlinking transit systems. However the concept of maglevs is a new one. Specifically catered around the concept of moving extremly large and heavy equipment/projects underground unnoticed. Currently more traditional "subway" type trains are utilized, however they still utilize steel rails and steel wheels. This places a weight limit on the individual cars, as well as an inerrant vibration issue. Initially several lines between adjoining facilities would cause seismometers to pick them up at their routine intervals. The collected data was later confiscated and the trains run slower to cut down on vibration, thus the push to move towards maglev.

I'm inclined to believe that the governments and elite are stockpiling in the event of a worldwide disaster, natural or otherwise and it looks to be coming quite soon (within the next few years), what do they know that we don't? Is the food and oil situation, due to stockpiling on a huge scale perhaps?

All of them [leaders] actually. Many "suspect" that things are going to go bad, so they have developed safe facilities to retreat to. This concept is certainly not new, nor surprising. Large quantities of many resources are certainly stockpiled. Bare in mind, those in power may gain power by chaos, but not by anarchy. They want controlled chaos, not collapse. Were a collapse to happen it would be one way (not preferable) to disarming their stranglehold on power. Therefore the only resolution to us, is to help hold us on the edge of collapse, and possibly bring us away form it.

We are faced with a unique problem, too much stability and people do not ask questions, too little stability and more power is gained by "them," if you will. We need to ensure stability, but ensure that people are also aware. We need to ensure stability also, so that they do not gain too much power; unaccountable and unquestionable power that is, essentially absolute power.

Can you tell me how many there are in the series that you recommend?

I believe that was the one to which i was referring. The first installment, essentially.

I think they would be better off giving you enough rope so you could hang yourself rather than trying to trip you with it.

They are smarter than that. Were they to give me enough rope, I would probably lasso them into a self imposed silence/confusion. As I said before. They may discredit me to their heart's content, so long as my message survives, none else matters. Unlike them, I murdered my ego long ago. All that truly matters is the shape and security of the future, and my duties to it and humanity.

- Maban

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Maban]

reply to post by Maban


Latecomer that I am, I have picked my way through the thread, and rather than look for the negative, have attempted to isolate the more positive elements. However, I have some qualms and would like to address those first if I may.

Originally posted by Maban
I intend to see this thread through one of three outcomes:
1) Public outcries drown out my words
2) It is closed due to excessive slanderous remarks against the Shards (first page and there is already a removed post)
3) This post will remain as a place of open discourse, intellectual exchanges and informative questions until this information undoubtedly takes on a life of its own.

I hope that I have shown my openness to the prospect of the third option, and I would like to think that perhaps it may be opportune to expand this premise. The following two points indicate a direction that I feel would be beneficial to all concerned.

Originally posted by Maban
The "true" reason i am on here is to "gather intelligence," because so many seek the end of evil and devious groups this collection of people practically do our job for us; we often investigate and act on information we get from right here. Otherwise, i would state; help others around you and spread illumination. illumination is a clarity of mind and spirit. The clarity of understanding, tolerance, acceptance, peace, knowledge, and wisdom. all create a better future if furthered to their greatest extents and beyond, all in all be a good person. If one is to take anything from faith take, "kindness."

Originally posted by Maban
In truth, if one looks at all humanity has done; they cannot "blame it" upon any deity, they have only themselves. Humanity needs to truly realize that they are responsible for their own actions, and that no deity good or ill can change that. That they need to stop "staring at the sky" and see what is around them. It is then we will begin to see progression. Complacency and ignorance reins today; it is why the Shards and individuals like myself cherish and support venues like ATS; because it makes people think, and inspires.

By the above I am assured that we understand each other. However….

Originally posted by Maban
Therefore a personalized exception of secrecy would have to be extended for them to know and then judge it. Something which I am not permitted to do. In addition, if they agreed that humanity was not ready for it, then they would either have to release the information regardless to uphold their ideals. Or break their ideals and uphold them; an interesting predicament wouldn't you say?

I am a little confused by the above, given some of your previous statements it seems somewhat contradictory. Could you please clarify what you mean?

I am attempting not to make assumptions, but if you wish the discussion to be ‘confirmational’ then certain aspects of ‘truth’ need to be addressed. I feel that I am in some way being held responsible for secrets that I for one, have not taken any vow to maintain. I realise that history may not be your forte but I personally believe it is an important factor in the journey to ‘know thyself’ and that there is a visible path throughout human history marked with those very words and the discovery of many ‘truths’ that have been held as ‘secrets’. How do you suggest I balance all this with ‘ideals’ that aren’t my own?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


They appear contradictory when out of context. The third remark was made in regards to absolutes. Absolute secrets, versus absolute ideals. In reality,it is an amalgamation of secrecy and ideals. In order to uphold certain ideals secrets need be kept. In order to keep secrets, certain ideals must be altered. That more clear?

I feel that I am in some way being held responsible for secrets that I for one, have not taken any vow to maintain.

And how do you figure that?

I realize that history may not be your forte but I personally believe it is an important factor in the journey to ‘know thyself’ and that there is a visible path throughout human history marked with those very words and the discovery of many ‘truths’ that have been held as ‘secrets’. How do you suggest I balance all this with ‘ideals’ that aren’t my own?

Firstly, I will reiterate that history is indeed important. Important that you learn form past lessons, so they are not repeated again.

Secondly, why would you hold ideals that "weren't" your own. They either are your ideals, or ideals you refuse to subscribe to. No one is forcing ideals upon you. Choosing ideals is like any other decision, it is yours and yours alone.

If you believe that I am forcing ideals upon you than I have been gravely misunderstood. I am simply stating, not preaching, not enforcing, and certainly not demanding specific ideals. I am describing the best path that most can follow to a better lifestyle, however like anything, there isn't just one path.

Lastly, It seems we have yet to surpass the whole "secret truths" topic. I guarantee you if I were to tell you them, a number of things may make more sense. However, an intellectually gifted, and mentally aware individual could have easily surmised these three truths long ago. I feel you are fretting... stressing... concerning over what I see to be a moot point. These truths are designed for an Illuminon to be more aware, understand their duty, and why they should uphold their duties. And no, that isn't just aversionist speech. Had I wished to avoid anything, I would simply say nothing.

- Maban

reply to post by Maban


I think that you misunderstood me, but either way you answered my questions and clarified a number of things. I don't think you quite understand how intensely drawn I am to this thread, to you, to others and it is creating some disorientation, mainly because I am not entirely sure why. I am not interested in your three truths I can assure you, I just wished to clarify for my own mind that my instincts are correct in what we consider to be great 'truths'. I feel we again see eye to eye.

Perhaps, I am attempting to find where our minds may meet and how I can find a level at which I can communicate effectively. I am not really sure Maban, I'll be honest and I have been honest. Whether or not you wish to talk to me, I seemingly am overwhelmed with a desire to talk to you or at least here.

Best wishes
KT

Hello Maban

I'm sorry it has taken me so long to resume this conversation, as I am sure you are aware time is not always on our side. Though there is a great deal that I would like to discuss with you I was hoping you could clarify a few points for me.

I have read through this thread a few times as well as a few of your other posts, and I am a little confused as to the concentration of the Shards in the Pacific area. I am sure you must have mentioned it somewhere and I am missing it...but am I right in assuming that there would be other 'Shards', for example who handles stability (I realise that is a somewhat simplistic overview of your duties, but I am attempting to be succinct) in the former Soviet Block, the middle-east and areas in Europe. I notice that you have coverage in two Commonwealth countries, what then, is the 'Shards' relationship to Britain?

Many thanks in advance
KT