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Shards of the Illuminati

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posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 08:20 AM
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Good today, Maban, Sir.


Originally posted by Maban
The most important of our Buddhist ideologies is that of the "Four Noble Truths."

1) Life is suffering by nature...
2) Suffering is from the human source (i.e. materialism, greed, lust, etc...)...
3)Suffering can be alleviated...
4) The path to Enlightenment is helping yourself and others alleviate the cause of suffering.


I was just wondering if you'd like to expand upon the above. You've already made clear the positions on reincarnation and nirvana, but what are your own and the shards view on other aspects of Buddhism; such as meditation, vegetarianism and non-intoxication?




posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Yes a good question indeed. Firstly we the Shards, do not view the former Soviet Block as a part of Europe, although commonly Russia is at least. To clarify, The Shards from the original Canadian Shard have focused efforts in the "Eastern" Hemisphere, the Pacific, Asia, Eurasia. as well as the Americas.

The Shards of the original Icelandic Shard are responsible for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. Initially Shards were allocated differently according to whom was present first. Eventually the Icelandic Council decided that certain chains of command need be separated to safeguard our capacity for influence, and unified direction.

Some people believe that this separation was specifically done more so for security reasons. The consolidation of resources always begs trouble. At the same time others believed it was elements within the council which wished to further separate the two sides because of our ill conceived union of the Shards. Personally I believe both ideas are partially right, alongside the Council's statement of intent. Some which to back a boundary between the Icelandic and Canadian Shards. However much we may have reunited, animosity still lingers. It is mostly distrust over how both sides handle tasks and problems differently. Each side things that the other should do it by means of a specific method. For the most part these are fringe elements within the Shards whom were actually pleased by the mild segregation of Shard control.

I stated earlier that we "had no Shards in all of Europe." This for the most part is true. Reason being is that this territory falls under the presence of the Icelandic Shard. They have recently (last two decades) shown interest in redeveloping Shards there. However, the drive to improve existing ones via solidification/fortification which were constructed long ago, have proven to become the most impressive Shards yet. The Canadian Shards on the other hand have utilized modest structures, and have focused on spreading to many nations to help influence change. In essence, we have many little capabilities of exerting change. Whereas the Icelandic Shards have only a few capabilities for exerting major change. A majority of what Shards we possessed in Europe were mostly disbanded or destroyed in WWI and later more so in WWII. In WWII between the British, Nazis, and the later Soviets, stability was far from possible, especially whenst you add in the various aligned Remnants. The Remnants joined many different sides, but they all equally still opposed us, so we were facing many fronts. The Icelandic Council made a quick decision to begin allocating resources to conquer this mounting threat to global stability. It was agreed that the Icelandic Shards would directly help the Allied Powers (resources), whist the Canadian Shards helped cut supply lines form other countries, especially countries of the Allied powers (corruption, treason). If you have not seen the documentary "The Corporation," I would highly advise it. After all, this documentary came from Canada; if any of you have seen it, this will all be placed everything into good context. For those whom have not: The Corporation Documentary Trailer The remainder episodes are available on you tube.

Essentially since every major global conflict, there has been a reformation of our Shards. From WWI, to the Cold War, to Vietnam, each has caused a degree of hardship and reformation for us. For those few who claim to be Illuminati, and implicitly state that they have easily survived these events without incident, are simply deceitful.

We have had Shards in these countries around the time of WWII. However with the growing threats from Stalin and Mussolini, it was decided that we would remain almost totally separated from Europe because of our losses incurred during the previous periods.

As an addendum, we did have a handful of Shards who decided to remain, one was in St. Petersburg Russia. As a result their tactics changed, their communions with Iceland drew to a trickle, and they destroyed all their records to protect previous members form the Soviets. This may place a good context why our records are spotty, even after the reformation. Some Shards forgone many luxuries and SOP's which would have been normally possessed.observed. In essence we are by no means static in form, and have constantly evolved with the decades, I would have a difficult time seeing any "secret society any sizable form, remain unchanged, unaffected.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by Cadbury
 

Originally posted by Cadbury
I was just wondering if you'd like to expand upon the above. You've already made clear the positions on reincarnation and nirvana, but what are your own and the shards view on other aspects of Buddhism; such as meditation, vegetarianism and non-intoxication?


Good questions indeed. Meditation by Illuminons is regarded as very beneficial. Bare in mind two types of Meditation exist. The first is a reflective and active meditation. Many people would call this simple "thinking" or "rumination." We calmly contemplate all which we know and see to understand how things work, and what types of solutions can be gleaned from that knowledge. the second is the more relaxed and passive meditation. The Meditation who many people identify as "actual" meditation, Few use this commonly, I myself however do when the occasion arises. I often do this when I feel overly stressed, or am unable to actively solve a problem. Scientifically this method has show an increase in the release of serotonin and melatonin, producing a more calm, collected mental state.

vegetarianism is regarded by Illuminons similar to most people. We attempt to avoid it when possible. However nutritionally, it is difficult to find a supplement which is widely available. In most non-Asian countries soy products are difficult to get. Just the same many still eat meat because they cannot stand the flavor of soy, or lack thereof; like myself.

Finally when in regards to "mind altering" substances, it is extremely frowned upon, even alcohol. Hallucinogenic or mind altering drugs are banned, unequivocally. If an Illuminon is found with them then they undergo psychiatric and medical evaluation immediately, and are placed in a state of house (Shard) arrest. This is mainly done for their safety and ours. Simply put, they are not tolerated in the least. Alcohol is frowned upon, but not totally discouraged. Many of us despise it, but still have to drink it to maintain appearances. It is truly left up to each Illuminon's choice. Personally, I only consume alcohol to maintain business appearances.

If you have further questions about suffering, or other aspects of Buddhism, please feel free to ask.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 



Thank you for your detailed reply, it has, of course, provoked further questions.


Originally posted by Maban
In essence, we have many little capabilities of exerting change. Whereas the Icelandic Shards have only a few capabilities for exerting major change.


This is very interesting, though in some ways highly perplexing also. The difficulty of course is that I presume (note ‘pre’ not ‘as’) that you cannot go into specifics, but I would like a little more clarity simply to help me understand what exactly you mean by ‘exerting change’. As I am British, it is the western hemisphere that I understand more acutely and therefore can better conceptualise in terms of which structures are able to exert influential change. While I do not wish you to confirm or discount any of the examples I provide, I would like to know if institutions such as these could be utilised by the Icelandic Shard or whether the influence would be much subtler and in what way they could be utilised. If you would rather provide your own examples that would be equally helpful.

www.chathamhouse.org.uk...

"When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed."
en.wikipedia.org...

www.clubdeparis.org...

The permanent member-nations of the club are: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

An informal group of private creditors on the international stage. Similar to the Paris Club of public lenders. London Club is not the only informal group of private creditors. Its first meeting took place in 1976 in response to Zaire's payment problems.


www.tavinstitute.org...

We work to improve the effectiveness of groups and organisations and, therefore, people’s lives. We bring insight and care to consultancy, applied research and evaluation – insight based on the social sciences. We help our clients work with the unexpected, and to learn and develop new and imaginative ways forward.


www.jrf.org.uk...


Our Mission

To search, demonstrate and influence, providing evidence, solutions and ideas that will help overcome the causes of poverty, disadvantage and social evil





Originally posted by Maban
If you have not seen the documentary "The Corporation," I would highly advise it. After all, this documentary came from Canada; if any of you have seen it, this will all be placed everything into good context. For those whom have not: The Corporation Documentary Trailer The remainder episodes are available on you tube.


I will indeed watch this (as soon as I have the time), it looks very much up my street.

While a great deal of emphasis is placed on oil and other natural resources, it is, as Lenin most correctly surmised, the textile, and by default the fashion industry, that is the driving force of the global economy. With the advent of synthetic (petro-chemical based) textiles however the two are becoming more closely linked. No industry has been more responsible for poor labour practices and human exploitation since the advent of industrialized manufacturing. It was a main contributor in the trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. The trailer seemingly places much emphasis on Nike, which is, in my opinion is one of the worst offenders. I may add more comments once I have watched the film, thanks for making me aware of it.


Originally posted by Maban
In WWII between the British, Nazis, and the later Soviets, stability was far from possible, especially whenst you add in the various aligned Remnants. The Remnants joined many different sides, but they all equally still opposed us, so we were facing many fronts. The Icelandic Council made a quick decision to begin allocating resources to conquer this mounting threat to global stability. It was agreed that the Icelandic Shards would directly help the Allied Powers (resources), whist the Canadian Shards helped cut supply lines form other countries, especially countries of the Allied powers (corruption, treason).



Originally posted by Maban
Essentially since every major global conflict, there has been a reformation of our Shards. From WWI, to the Cold War, to Vietnam, each has caused a degree of hardship and reformation for us. For those few who claim to be Illuminati, and implicitly state that they have easily survived these events without incident, are simply deceitful.


Again I am a little confused to your meaning here…if, as you say, your activities involve both creating instability (to avoid complacency) and stability as required, to achieve balance, what role, if any did you play in the conflicts that you provide as examples? As someone who understands and has studied the causation and consequences of the first, second and cold wars, it is evident that elements of these conflicts were engineered. Not necessarily with a fixed outcome in mind, but there were organized attempt to direct all of these events from all sides (as you concur). Some of these activities are blatant and some, much more subtle. By your implication, some of these events can be attribruted to the Shards. Is that correct?
I would assume (I know!) that there may be some difficulty in revealing too much detail, and as I have previously stated, good intentions do sometimes go awry, we all back the wrong horse from time to time, but it would be enormously helpful if you could help me in some way to clarify what the Shards specific involvement would have been. For example it cannot have escaped the notice of many that Iceland is alternatively referred to as ‘Thule’ and that a Secret Society by that same name was active in Germany in the inter-war period. It would obviously be naïve of me to think that this was indeed the Shards on public display, but the elements that surround that group of people could lead me to believe that the Shards may have been less directly involved.

In short is there any way we can expand on this line of discussion?


Originally posted by Maban
We have had Shards in these countries around the time of WWII. However with the growing threats from Stalin and Mussolini, it was decided that we would remain almost totally separated from Europe because of our losses incurred during the previous periods.

As an addendum, we did have a handful of Shards who decided to remain, one was in St. Petersburg Russia. As a result their tactics changed, their communions with Iceland drew to a trickle, and they destroyed all their records to protect previous members form the Soviets. This may place a good context why our records are spotty, even after the reformation. Some Shards forgone many luxuries and SOP's which would have been normally possessed.observed. In essence we are by no means static in form, and have constantly evolved with the decades, I would have a difficult time seeing any "secret society any sizable form, remain unchanged, unaffected.


If I understand correctly, and I know you will correct me as necessary, the majority of the Shards remained in the Soviet Union (Petrograd) up until the Stalinist Purges, a few individuals though remained, and seemingly did not have positions of influence. Is that correct? If so what involvement did they have in the period prior to that, or what type of positions did they hold? How partisan were their activities, ie were they pro-Kerensky or Leninists? I realize the limitations of your records and the limitation on specifics which may implicate, but this is fairly general information in my opinion and should not lead, generally, to specific individuals being identified.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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Clearly exceptional answerings, again, Maban. As always.


Originally posted by Maban
Good questions indeed. Meditation by Illuminons is regarded as very beneficial. Bare in mind two types of Meditation exist. The first is a reflective and active meditation. Many people would call this simple "thinking" or "rumination." We calmly contemplate all which we know and see to understand how things work, and what types of solutions can be gleaned from that knowledge.


Thank you. And indeed. But would you not say that we're all doing this all the time? Be it consciously or subconsciously.




the second is the more relaxed and passive meditation. The Meditation who many people identify as "actual" meditation, Few use this commonly, I myself however do when the occasion arises. I often do this when I feel overly stressed, or am unable to actively solve a problem. Scientifically this method has show an increase in the release of serotonin and melatonin, producing a more calm, collected mental state.


I understand. Thank you. I'm wondering, though, why more emphasis isn't put on actual meditation? Surely it would be beneficial to practice more frequently? I don't know, though. Perhaps it's that you people walk around with a more calm, collected mental state than most already, anyway, and don't really need it.



vegetarianism is regarded by Illuminons similar to most people. We attempt to avoid it when possible. However nutritionally, it is difficult to find a supplement which is widely available. In most non-Asian countries soy products are difficult to get. Just the same many still eat meat because they cannot stand the flavor of soy, or lack thereof; like myself.


I haven't eaten any meat (except a bit of Cod) for a while now. And I'm feeling healthier and more energetic now than I ever have done since I was a child -- and I'm sleeping about 2-3 hours less per night. I'm just not convinced that meat is as much a nutritional requirement as we believe it to be (apart from in regions where there's nothing much else). How many Buddhist monasteries serve soy or Quorn? It's mainly all just rice, pickled vegetables, and fruit.



Finally when in regards to "mind altering" substances, it is extremely frowned upon, even alcohol. Hallucinogenic or mind altering drugs are banned, unequivocally.


Harsh. But I think I understand why. I take it, then, that Cannabis and other, stronger entheogens aren't permitted even under controlled circumstances?



If an Illuminon is found with them then they undergo psychiatric and medical evaluation immediately, and are placed in a state of house (Shard) arrest. This is mainly done for their safety and ours.


How often does this happen? And must you undergo regular drug testing of some form?



Simply put, they are not tolerated in the least. Alcohol is frowned upon, but not totally discouraged. Many of us despise it, but still have to drink it to maintain appearances. It is truly left up to each Illuminon's choice. Personally, I only consume alcohol to maintain business appearances.


Hah, I don't believe that. Not all business persons drink. Are you saying you've never sat down to post on ATS with a few beers?




If you have further questions about suffering, or other aspects of Buddhism, please feel free to ask.

- Maban


Thank you. I'm relatively familiar with suffering, so I think I understand it fairly well; but I was going to ask if there was anything more you feel you'd like to offer in regards to Buddhist philosophy that you haven't already, or, rather, hasn't been asked about yet?



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Your presumptions are certainly following the proper trains of thought. In many cases though, a more subtle course of action need be taken. Illuminons often befriend people in high positions, or are advisers to political leaders. A perfect example is an Illuminon as a Cabinet member. If decisions cannot be swayed, at least volatile action can be curtailed. from Corporate boards, to entire entities devoted to helping people, to even PMC's designed for covert global operations; we wield influence in many different forms, that usually invisible to even the ones being directly influenced. We prefer no to influence a whole directly, but to influence an influence. Like influencing a governor, who will influence a senator, who will influence congress by their actions. The longer the chain the higher the risk of misinterpretation, no doubt. however the longer the chain the more difficult reverse engineering dialogue to find the source of information or influence.

In regards to my quote allow me to clarify: both the Icelandic and Canadian Shards hold the same influence. However, the Canadian Shards have greatly diversified influence throughout many organizations / people. Whereas, the Icelandic Shards holds more consolidated influence with only a few individuals, and few very influential organizations. In essence we all work through proxies, but the distribution of influence changes between the two side s of the orginization.

This documentary The Corporation is a great example of our diversified influence. This documentary's creation was influenced by an Illuminon, but not created nor directed by one.


Origionally Posted By: Killgoretrout
Again I am a little confused to your meaning here…if, as you say, your activities involve both creating instability (to avoid complacency) and stability as required, to achieve balance, what role, if any did you play in the conflicts that you provide as examples?


This seems to be a common held misconception / assumption / misunderstanding. We do not create instability, that would be extremely counterproductive. We create stability. My reference to ensuring that awareness is observed by the populous is a necessity to promote change, was an academic exercise in understanding the larger picture of things; not standard operating procedure for the Shards. In years gone by we may allow certain events to slide to keep the populous aware, and non-complacent. In modern times we allow things to be "ignored" simply because they are a issue which is the least of our concerns.If it were within our total control we would weed out these as well. In these times so much instability reigns we focus almost all energy and efforts on tackling these major threats to stability, and the occasional manifesting one. Needless to say, we need not "make" any instability, it breeds itself.

In reference to wars gone past many tactics then are actively being implemented now, which prevents me from disclosing them. However, past methods which we have abandoned in the face of never, more effective ones were as follows:


  1. Political Incompetence - Causing an enemy force to expel competent and capable commanders / leaders.
  2. Internal Betrayal / Deceit - Causing an enemy to harbor distrust amongst them, and create infighting.
  3. Resource Sabotage - From contaminated food stuffs, to supplying impure metals, to utilizing faulty handling.
  4. Veritably Accurate Disinformation - Hiding information designed to be discovered by reputable officers, which is verifiable in accuracy and is then acted upon; causing an enemy to move out of position or shift military might in favor of Allies.


As for "Thule," all I can say is that there was an "incident" involving the Nazi's, which resulted in physical fighting on Iceland. The Nazi's learned of one of our "Three Truths," or so they thought, and acted upon it. However to our misfortune, their crazed fanaticism about the Aryan race brought them to our doorstep, as so to speak. Allow me to simply source this:

"Aryan Thule"

Nazi mystics believed in a historical Thule/Hyperborea as the ancient origin of the Aryan race. The Traditionalist School expositor Rene Guenon believed in the existence of ancient Thule on "initiatic grounds alone". According to its emblem, the Thule Society was founded in 1919. It had close links to the Deutsche Arbeiter Partei (DAP), later the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP, the Nazi party). One of its three founder members was Lanz von Liebenfels (1874–1954). In his biography of Liebenfels ("Der Mann, der Hitler die Ideen gab", Munich 1985), the Viennese psychologist and author Dr Wilhelm Dahm wrote: "The Thule Gesellschaft name originated from mythical Thule, a Nordic equivalent of the vanished culture of Atlantis. A race of giant supermen lived in Thule, linked into the Cosmos through magical powers. They had psychic and technological energies far exceeding the technical achievements of the 20th century. This knowledge was to be put to use to save the Fatherland and create a new race of Nordic Aryan Atlanteans. A new Messiah would come forward to lead the people to this goal." This was later used as the plot for the 1991 Doc Savage comic mini-series, The Monarch of Armageddon written by Mark Ellis and for an Indiana Jones novel.[9]


This line of inquiry is bordering on my inability to discuss more, for what are undoubtedly "obvious" reasons. For those whom have asked me certain question privately, you are no doubt beginning to see a pattern emerging.

Note: Cadbery, pay attention to the above passage, since you asked about this "situation" earlier. I will elaborate in a U2U.

Note: KillgoreTrout, If you wish to consider the above, and then reform your general question; into several more specific ones, I think I can better accommodate you.

As for the Soviet Union, allow me to clarify. The Soviet Union was mostly a militaristic sate, and however fervent political leaders were in regards to Marxism, they often made their now decisions as to action with little "people" support. This said, many were officers (some high ranking) within the Soviet Union. Here they were more able to both "blend in," and offer influence.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Cadbury
 



Originally Posted By: Cadbury
But would you not say that we're all doing this all the time? Be it consciously or subconsciously.


Yes, I would say we are. The only caveat is, for each type of meditation, there are inerrant varying degrees of commitment.


I'm wondering, though, why more emphasis isn't put on actual meditation? Surely it would be beneficial to practice more frequently?


"Actual" meditation (passive) can take a great deal of time to reach to an effective degree. More contemplative meditation is more efficient, and easier to readily obtain on a daily basis, atop duties. However, you touched on an important fact. We are often very calm, (hopefully that presumption was surmised form my actions. In which case I do my fellow Illuminons well in representation) this is due in part to the very meditative states you referenced. We often will utilize active meditation for our duties, and passive meditation for relaxation and our personal lives.


How many Buddhist monasteries serve soy or Quorn?


We may follow Buddhist ideals/teachings, but we aren't a monastery; not by any means. I think few truly do, if at all. I mentioned this fact because of how Illuminons tackle this problem, individually of course. Given that as KillgoreTrout mentioned, we are aligned mostly around the Pacific Rim, soy products make the best sense for alternative. However, rice is also a good source, it is really dependent on the individual Illuminon.


I take it, then, that Cannabis and other, stronger entheogens aren't permitted even under controlled circumstances?


That would be correct, they are not. Buddhism also does not allow for such "religious" uses. For example, look into the Buddhist "Precepts."

Buddhist Precepts

As for medicinal purposes, we have developed technologies/methods to eliminate the needs for such substances.


How often does this happen? And must you undergo regular drug testing of some form?


We do not conduct regular drug testing. It is not our concern with their addiction, but their mindfulness. essentially mind over matter before we see them fit to resume their duties. Illuminons often joke that we are the "toughest"rehabilitation clinic in the world because we have also helped family / relatives of Illuminons with these very issues. Only two Shards in the Council have ever had this happen in our entire history, two individuals; does that answer your question?


Not all business persons drink.


That is true, but with some infiltration operations, we would surely lose our covers.


Are you saying you've never sat down to post on ATS with a few beers?


Never. And no, I am not "looking down may nose at you." You asked, I answered. Which reminds me of the saying, "answers received, to questions better never asked;" right?


I was going to ask if there was anything more you feel you'd like to offer in regards to Buddhist philosophy that you haven't already, or, rather, hasn't been asked about yet?


Nothing stands out that I am allowed to discuss. Questions often bring me to certain realization which I may take as commonplace or for granted. whereas others may see them as revelation in their own. Needless to say, if you think up any more, please ask them.

- Maban

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Maban]



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Maban

Yes, I would say we are. The only caveat is, for each type of meditation, there are inerrant varying degrees of commitment.


Hah, aren't there just.


"Actual" meditation (passive) can take a great deal of time to reach to an effective degree. More contemplative meditation is more efficient, and easier to readily obtain on a daily basis, atop duties.


I can perfectly understand that. Plus, full lotus hurts (at least it does for me)!



However, you touched on an important fact. We are often very calm, (hopefully that presumption was surmised form my actions. In which case I do my fellow Illuminons well in representation) this is due in part to the very meditative states you referenced. We often will utilize active meditation for our duties, and passive meditation for relaxation and our personal lives.


Well, you're the only "Illuminon" I know, so what I half-surmised was indeed half-surmised from your actions and your actions alone. I have to say you're probably the most calm, patient and non-confrontational person I've ever seen on ATS -- and I've been here a while.



We may follow Buddhist ideals/teachings, but we aren't a monastery; not by any means. I think few truly do, if at all. I mentioned this fact because of how Illuminons tackle this problem, individually of course. Given that as KillgoreTrout mentioned, we are aligned mostly around the Pacific Rim, soy products make the best sense for alternative. However, rice is also a good source, it is really dependent on the individual Illuminon.


Ah, you cut the context out of my quote a little, there. I wasn't presuming you resembled a monastery in any way, nor was I likening you to Buddhist monks; what I meant was that I'm not convinced that a meat substitute such as those we've mentioned are even necessary for human nutritional requirements. They don't eat meat or any substitutes at some monasteries, and quite a few of their resident monks live long, healthy lives.


That would be correct, they are not. Buddhism also do not allow for such "religious" uses. For example, look into the Buddhist "Precepts."

Buddhist Precepts


Indeed. I'm familiar with the precepts, Sir. I should be, as I'm a Buddhist myself. We;ve discussed this before. I'm not sure if you remember but when we first spoke I told you that I have completely ignored the particular precept that's relevant to such consumptions, because I'm just not ready to stop yet -- I can't stop yet.



As for medicinal purposes, we have developed technologies/methods to eliminate the needs for such substances.


"We" as in you, or "we" as in society in general?


We do not conduct regular drug testing. It is not our concern with their addiction, but their mindfulness. essentially mind over matter before we see them fit to resume their duties. Illuminons often joke that we are the "toughest"rehabilitation clinic in the world because we have also helped family / relatives of Illuminons with these very issues. Only two Shards in the Council have ever had this happen in our entire history, two individuals; does that answer your question?


I guess you feel your members can be trusted to not have 3 day long coc aine binges and blabberblurt all your secrets out to random strangers? Or get terribly drunk by accident and get you all killed with death?



That is true, but with some infiltration operations, we would surely lose our covers.


Understood.



Never. And no, I am not "looking down may nose at you." You asked, I answered. Which reminds me o the saying, "answers received, to questions better never asked;" right?


(emphasis mine)

Heh. I may make some mistakes over and over and over again, Maban, but I'm not going to make that mistake again. And I didn't really see any problem with asking you if you've "ever sat down to post on ATS with a couple of beers." Primarily because I just don't see how you could have handled all this without a drink, but I'm an alcoholic soap-mutant, so I wouldn't, would I?



Nothing stands out that I am allowed to discuss. Questions often bring me to certain realization which I may take as commonplace or for granted. whereas others may see them as revelation in their own. Needless to say, if you think up any more, please ask them.

- Maban


I understand. And I still have those questions I told you I had before. But, as was the case then, the time still is not right.



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 



Originally posted by Maban
Your presumptions are certainly following the proper trains of thought. In many cases though, a more subtle course of action need be taken. Illuminons often befriend people in high positions, or are advisers to political leaders. A perfect example is an Illuminon as a Cabinet member. If decisions cannot be swayed, at least volatile action can be curtailed. from Corporate boards, to entire entities devoted to helping people, to even PMC's designed for covert global operations; we wield influence in many different forms, that usually invisible to even the ones being directly influenced.


I’m a little concerned by your involvement with PMC’s and would appreciate it if you could explain in more detail of the type of situation that might be used. Would you utilize those members of your groups who have undertaken paramilitary training, or would you aim to be in a leadership or management position?

As far as ‘consultants’ to people of influence…have you heard of a gentleman called Airey Neave? en.wikipedia.org... I am not implying that he was an “Illuminon”, but I would be interested in your perspective on his case as a means of demonstrating how such a person ‘of influence’ can effect the status quo, both in life and death. I would presume that in such a case you would be seeking to influence Neave rather than Neave himself being Illuminon. A case such as Neave’s does clearly demonstrate how that influence could result in endangerment to the more high profile target that you may be influencing.



In years gone by we may allow certain events to slide to keep the populous aware, and non-complacent. In modern times we allow things to be "ignored" simply because they are a issue which is the least of our concerns.If it were within our total control we would weed out these as well. In these times so much instability reigns we focus almost all energy and efforts on tackling these major threats to stability, and the occasional manifesting one. Needless to say, we need not "make" any instability, it breeds itself.


I’m having to think quite hard about the points you raise, you certainly provoke thought and in a number of ways you are challenging my perspective. Would I be correct, that as an overall principle you favour protectionism, and that in its most succinct form, that describes your overall role?

I want to consider the rest of your response separately, so I will reply to it separately. And Later.



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 



Originally posted by Maban

  1. Political Incompetence - Causing an enemy force to expel competent and capable commanders / leaders.


In most cases in the past, this usually resulted in those men being executed or ‘suicided’. In most cases those ‘competent and capable leaders’ were men of honour, good men. I am pleased to hear that you have abandoned such methods, as in the long run such events have served a greater disservice when it has come time to pick up the pieces.


Originally posted by Maban

  1. Internal Betrayal / Deceit - Causing an enemy to harbor distrust amongst them, and create infighting.


I am beginning to create a clear picture in my mind of your group and its understanding of the playing field. Again, this method is archaic and has led to the execution of many innocents especially when the paranoia of the leadership is invoked, we can see the results of this to the individual (in such cases as James the first) and when that distrust is accompanied by absolute power (Stalin) how widespread the devastation to the command structure can be in the longterm. In the latter case this was of course the intention of certain groups. Perhaps even of yours.


Originally posted by Maban

  1. Resource Sabotage - From contaminated food stuffs, to supplying impure metals, to utilizing faulty handling.


Again, we can see how such actions would potentially result in casualties. And I can see how fundamental your Reformation must have been in light of some of your earlier answers to questions. I should imagine that much of your influence was exerted with good intentions but that the situation was vastly outside of your control. However, for me, it does highlight the negative impact that any form of planned influence can have if some of the parameters are unknown or improperly thought through.


Originally posted by Maban

  1. Veritably Accurate Disinformation - Hiding information designed to be discovered by reputable officers, which is verifiable in accuracy and is then acted upon; causing an enemy to move out of position or shift military might in favor of Allies.


This is by far your most tantilising response so far and one which I would be inclined to ask about specific individuals, as I doubt your ability to answer I will leave this point aside.


Originally posted by Maban
As for "Thule," all I can say is that there was an "incident" involving the Nazi's, which resulted in physical fighting on Iceland. The Nazi's learned of one of our "Three Truths," or so they thought, and acted upon it. However to our misfortune, their crazed fanaticism about the Aryan race brought them to our doorstep, as so to speak.


I do not agree that they were crazed, fanatical certainly but they were misled as a people on any number of levels. I cannot comment on the above without specifics, so I will leave that to one side too.


Originally posted by Maban
"Aryan Thule"

Nazi mystics believed in a historical Thule/Hyperborea as the ancient origin of the Aryan race. The Traditionalist School expositor Rene Guenon believed in the existence of ancient Thule on "initiatic grounds alone".

I consider there to be a number of misconceptions regarding nazi mysticism, the majority of it was simple propaganda, an attempt in extremis to alter the mind-set of a nation. It was highly successful too, thanks to the Volkspeigel and the ability of Goebbels to enter into the heart of every German household. But very, very few in the hierarchy actually believed the hype. Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess are perhaps the most notable exceptions although they appear at different ends of the spectrum.


Originally posted by Maban


According to its emblem, the Thule Society was founded in 1919. It had close links to the Deutsche Arbeiter Partei (DAP), later the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP, the Nazi party). One of its three founder members was Lanz von Liebenfels (1874–1954). In his biography of Liebenfels ("Der Mann, der Hitler die Ideen gab", Munich 1985), the Viennese psychologist and author Dr Wilhelm Dahm wrote: "The Thule Gesellschaft name originated from mythical Thule, a Nordic equivalent of the vanished culture of Atlantis. A race of giant supermen lived in Thule, linked into the Cosmos through magical powers. They had psychic and technological energies far exceeding the technical achievements of the 20th century. This knowledge was to be put to use to save the Fatherland and create a new race of Nordic Aryan Atlanteans. A new Messiah would come forward to lead the people to this goal." This was later used as the plot for the 1991 Doc Savage comic mini-series, The Monarch of Armageddon written by Mark Ellis and for an Indiana Jones novel.[9]


The Thule Society had an anti-Jewish leaning, as did DAP, but its primary purpose seems to have been to re-kindle Pan-Germanism, that those ideas were ethnically defined is only of significance in retrospect. Many nations held similar ideals at that time. The myths and legends only served to provide a uniquely Germanic ritual to the proceedings. However, the notion of Messiah was something that was actively engaged in, but that search proceeded the formation of the Thule Society and that Messiah can be clearly seen as having been ‘found’ by 1921. Hitler himself was never a member of the Thulists but he had a number of associates that were, and his early career was certainly aided by those individuals. However, which is more why I mentioned the association, many of those who had been Thulists were either later removed (Roehm Purge) or raised themselves in opposition or plotted against Hitler later in his career. I hope that better explains the area of my interest and why I emphasise the difference between intention and outcome.


[edit on 16-7-2008 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Maban
reply to post by fleabit
 


I apologize for not responding sooner. In the myriad of responses yours fell through the cracks, as so to speak. Our productions which are numerous, are meant to appeal to all those whom are willing to watch and listen. Our messages are meant to reverberate within an individual regardless of a state's GNP. It is true that we may place some more focus on promoting our products in these states because of their influence and populous, however the message is catered towards all, despite whatever form the messenger may take. Hopefully This answers your question.

- Maban



[edit on 8-7-2008 by Maban]


Well, still nothing remotely close to anything resembling evidence, so still quite on the fence with this one. Actually, not quite even on the fence yet, that would require more proof.

You've described two works so far, as being catalysts for spreading the word, so to speak. Both are anime. Pardon me for being skeptical, but if I were trying to get the word out in a roundabout way, I'd certainly not pick anime as my medium of choice. Not only is the demographic who would view anime small in the extreme when compared to other mediums, the sort of folks who watch anime would not be my first choice as to take up my banner and help my cause.

However, I have noticed that if someone wants to try and sell a story, they stick to what they are good at. It's easier to back up ones "facts" when the subject-matter is something they are very familiar with. Also, when creating elements of a story, people only can pull from what they know. Ergo, I think you are probably well versed in anime, since you are confident enough to mention it more than once as a sliver of "proof" for what you say you are involved in. I cannot picture a secret organization trying to make the biggest wheels in world spin, utilizing anime as one of their cogs in their worldwide machine of change.

So, as I said, I do apologize for being skeptical, but so far, the only proof provided, is probably one of the last things I'd think a group such as the one you are describing would utilize in their efforts. So still very, very skeptical.



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Cadbury
 


I wasn't trying to take it out of context, just trying to present a clear and unambitious answer. Sorry if I "presumed," that you "presumed."

Full lotus shouldn't hurt, ironically I think you must be trying too hard.

As for you already upholding Buddhist Ideals, yes I do remember; or rather I do now. I apologize but my memory is not so good in certain topics.


As for medicinal purposes, we [Shards] have developed technologies/methods to eliminate the needs for such substances.


Simply put, we have experimental technologies at our disposal. They are not publicly acknowledged because of their "moral ambiguity" and also the fact that they have not been FDA / HHS approved.


I have to say you're probably the most calm, patient and non-confrontational person I've ever seen on ATS -- and I've been here a while.



Primarily because I just don't see how you could have handled all this without a drink, but I'm an alcoholic soap-mutant, so I wouldn't, would I?


Simply, my mentality isn't just a choice or an ideology, its a lifestyle. Once calmness is a part of your character, it is difficult to "overwrite."


- Maban



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I’m a little concerned by your involvement with PMC’s and would appreciate it if you could explain in more detail of the type of situation that might be used. Would you utilize those members of your groups who have undertaken paramilitary training, or would you aim to be in a leadership or management position?


Had it not been for the Blackwater Scandal, few would have given my statement little thought. We primarily use them for security purposes. Specifically VIP protection, Hostage Rescue, Bomb Disarmament, etc.. We do not use them as our own "little army." For Shard operations we utilize Illuminons, and Illuminons only. All Illuminons possess paramilitary training, for their own protection. None are required to engage in physical conflict except for the protection of the Shard proper, if under immediate attack. Only a small handful of us actually fight physically, I cannot give numbers for obvious reasons, but It is a small number none the less. This "force" is only used in special situations, not everyday use. Specifically, we use this force when we know there is an impending attack on a shard, so we act preemptively and disable their local command center, wherever they have set it up.I think you have the idea that we go off into foreign countries and attack their facilities, that would not be accurate. We stay very "close" to our Shards, after all a small force is protecting a large number of people.

Personally I am a "POD" [Personnel and Organization Defense] commander [2nd in command]. I have a group of men and women I call on when our security is directly threatened, we mobilize and ensure that the Shard remains safe. Many times will will tip authorities and local police to force them to extricate quickly. There have been a few rare cases whenst police and federal agents were pinned down by their fire, our team "helped" them, and promptly disappeared before they knew what had transpired. We also "possess" other "advantages" which allow for less direct action unless necessary. Just because we utilize physical action, does not mean it is our only method, nor is it highly utilized to solve every ailing problem for the Shards.


I would presume that in such a case you would be seeking to influence Neave rather than Neave himself being Illuminon. A case such as Neave’s does clearly demonstrate how that influence could result in endangerment to the more high profile target that you may be influencing.


Yes we would prefer to influence such a man, rather than have such a man represent our organization, nor allow such a man to gain such power. Remember, "with power comes pain."


In most cases in the past, this usually resulted in those men being executed or ‘suicided’. In most cases those ‘competent and capable leaders’ were men of honour, good men. I am pleased to hear that you have abandoned such methods, as in the long run such events have served a greater disservice when it has come time to pick up the pieces.


this was only used in Germany, with Hitler's SS. These men were far from , "honorable." We ensured that.


I am beginning to create a clear picture in my mind of your group and its understanding of the playing field. Again, this method is archaic and has led to the execution of many innocents especially when the paranoia of the leadership is invoked, we can see the results of this to the individual (in such cases as James the first) and when that distrust is accompanied by absolute power (Stalin) how widespread the devastation to the command structure can be in the long term. In the latter case this was of course the intention of certain groups. Perhaps even of yours.


It was not "dangerous, nor archaic" when we utilized this method. This particular method did die off at the end of WWII. I would also emphasize that these campaigns were not general in their aim, but specific, strategic, surgical. We target certain people, and certain people only ensuring that no collateral damage was inflicted. In the Shards a long held promise which we uphold, is a absolute 0% collateral damage.


Again, we can see how such actions would potentially result in casualties. And I can see how fundamental your Reformation must have been in light of some of your earlier answers to questions. I should imagine that much of your influence was exerted with good intentions but that the situation was vastly outside of your control. However, for me, it does highlight the negative impact that any form of planned influence can have if some of the parameters are unknown or improperly thought through/


This method was actually never used, but still remains as a "abandoned method." We deemed that it had too much potential for collateral damage. Especially since it was commonplace for Allied forces to utilize Axis equipment/resources; so the idea was abandoned in its conceptualization. I mention it none the less for honesty.

I feel in regards to Thule, you missed my point entirely. I posted that external content for reference, and context. Specifically the Invasion of Iceland was "purposeful," beyond simple conquest. They were looking for "something/someone," although I cannot disclose it. Simply, they were drawn to The Shards, because of what we allegedly knew, what we allegedly held, and what powers we could allegedly bestow because of this. For those whom have asked about certain "topics," this was intended too. I had figured that this was where you were directing your question, but it seems I was mistaken.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


Bare in mind, my purpose here is to answer questions. I said nothing about "proving" anything here. That is for the individual to decide, whether I am who I state I am.

I am here twofold, to answer questions, and collect basic information about our organization's perception. This information has yielded interesting results.

In the end our existence will be little known but, our efforts will be paramount in ensuring humanity's success in the years to come.

I do not mean to appear as defensive, I only wish to clarify my honest intentions.

If you feel that you are... uneasy about us, please watch "The Corporation" Documentary. It is Illuminon inspired.

As for my validity, I fear I am unable to authenticate it, at this point in time. What little evidence I may provide, would violate the security of our Shard at least, and our entire organization at most.

- Maban

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Maban]



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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As a general announcement, I will be absent from this thread, as of next week for the whole entirety of the week. I plan to return shortly thereafter. Any questions accrued after Friday Night the 18th will be reciprocated by Tuesday the 29th. I apologize in advance for any inconveniences this may cause.

- Maban

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Maban]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 


That's fine, I'm taking all your posts with a proverbial grain of salt. You are polite and are not spreading a message of gloom and doom, so that alone is promising, even if you are not who you say you are. I myself write, and I can gleam information from someone's style, and what they say. This may cause me to be more cynical than others, perhaps, but I think I can ferret out more falsehoods than not by being more critical, and reading more deeply into what is said, referenced, and the inflection in which it is delivered.

So if I were to rate your posts on a scale of 1 to 10 for believability (that you are who you say you are), I'd probably be sitting around a 3 out of 10 at the moment. Which is not nearly as bad as it might seem.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by fleabit
 


It's certainly thought-provoking and very exciting to read.

I just hope there is a happy ending.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 09:03 AM
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Maban ,only if you have the time , can you tell us anything about disease? More specifically , even with all the advances in medicine , people seem to be getting more and more unhealthy . Are there ongoing activities to make us sickly , or is it merely an unrelated side-effect of our current life-style ? Are there so-called "universal curers" ? People should have a healthy , creative existence . (at least that's how it works if I try to envision a Utopian world
)



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by b1010011010
 


All the medical advances in the world, cannot accommodate poor, unhealthy lifestyles'; it is no more complicated, nor nefarious than that.


Are there so-called "universal curers?"


If you are referring to technology, then yes. They would be nano-assembler equipped Nanites. Capable of repairing anything at the molecular to atomic levels. Theoretically they could be programmed to find latent errors in genetic coding,and fix them. Eliminating heart disease,and other genetically linked characteristics. In addition this finalized template would be used to correct any diseases by revering cell's genetic code to a "standard" template. Furthermore, infectious diseases and viruses like cancer and HIV/AIDS could be targeted and reduced down at the molecular level to beneficial, or harmless proteins which the body could absorb.

The only issue with this technology, is its great potential for misuse. It could be deemed a weapon more powerful than any thermonuclear warhead. If you have not read Michael Crichton's "Prey," he underlies the potential "misuses" of such a powerful technology. Once again, technology is impartial, the power is truly in the hands of its wielder, good or evil.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by Maban
 


I think we can quite categorically conclude that your knowledge of history, however recent is somewhat limited. I'm being both kind and polite, but no matter, as you have said before you choose to specialise. You should though refrain from entering into discussions that demonstrate a clear lack of knowledge and moreover, you should refrain from assuming a omniscient stance. I do not wish to be rude, but you should not comment on matters that you clearly know nothing about. And this is consistently what you have done throughout this thread.

I am not interested in picking your posts apart, it holds no value for me one way or another, and no matter your 'heritage' I respect your right to be here on ATS, just as I am sure that you respect mine. We have already established that you are in no position to claim heritage to the Bavarian Illuminati, or rather you can claim it, but the information that you have so far provided has been proved incorrect. Additionally, you have proved to me that the information of any involvement of the Shards in WW2 is incorrect and that you have little or no understanding of the nature of that conflict and how it was fought. More recently, you have proved your ignorance of PMCs by assuming the term began and ended with Blackwater, and of assuming that my knowledge was as limited as yours in that respect. It is not.

At some point Maban you are going to have to decide what you are. Are you like me a common or garden variety of poster on ATS or are you 'Maban the Illuminon'. If the former then drop the Q&A omniscience, you clearly do not know all and see all, though I completely respect your vision, it doesn't need the dressings of Shards to give it credence.

If however, you insist on perserving with the qualification that you are an 'Illuminon' and that you have access to 'Enlightened Ones' then you are going to have to support that stance with tangible evidence, something you have not done.

I don't want to insult you or be rude to you and I hope that you realise that, I do want to understand you, but by your own actions you are preventing me from doing that.



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