Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Many claims of avoiding debunking my "statements" may not be "conscious,"but they are appearing in your posts with a unavoidable degree of frequency, without evidence themselves. I feel a double standard is in effect.

Allow me to then state one thing clearly. On many occasions I miss to see your questions in any form. They appear to me convoluted and muddies by obvious opinion and bias. Whenst I answer one of your questions, you often claim that I dodged a question or am simply not knowledgeable in that topic. In many cases this is extremely false, I only answered the questions I took as questions, and not comment or opinion.

I did not assume that you knew nothing of PMC's. In addidition where did you fathom taht it "ended and began with Blackwater." What a naive statment, if I may be so blunt. Blackwater is neither the first, nor the only PMC. Where the hell did I state that?

I feel the only commonality that you and I share, is our affinity to misunderstand, and misinterpret each other. I wish you no ill will, nor quarrel, but may I be so blunt to state that your predispositions make that extremely hard to circumnavigate.

My one extreme shortcoming is my inability to provide "tangible evidence." If i could, I would tell the world, but it would defeat all that which we have worked so hard for, and if anything betray the very memories of the dead whom gave thier lives to protect them. This all is an attempt to place our existence quietly into the limelight, and see people's reactions. In addition I offer to answer questions from my point of view. I have not lied to any of these people one iota, I simply possess no verifiable way to validate all that which I have said that falls beyond the boundaries of public knowledge.

If any must know, my leave of absence is a summons to meet with the Icelandic Council. They wish to discuss the very evidence several of you have turned up. In addition this is a formal review of the events that have transpired here.

I am here personally to reach out to those whom already understand certain aspects of our world which eludes many. In essence, I reach out to those whom are willing to do the same, rather than hide in an all encompassing shell of protection.

I think it may prove beneficial for both of us to take some time away from this thread, would you not agree? I have trouble understanding why you remain in an environment you clearly do not agree with, much less enjoy. If anything I feel only bitterness, repulsion, indecision, and cynicism has been brought to your posts. If you truly do not enjoy your environment, than take your leave form it; none is forcing you to remain. in effect allow the rest to carry on in dialogue, your objections have been duly noted.

- Maban

Hi Maban, i have read your thread and found it to be most excellent. I will take you up on your offer to ask a question, and if you are enlightened to a higher knowledge perhaps you can answer this, do not take this as a challenge for i have not the answer myself and truly desire to know (even if it turns out I'm asking a totally irrelevant question) my question is as follows:

You maybe familiar with the popular Sci-fi TV show Stargate SG1. In one episode one of the heroes Daniel goes to a planet to find the child of his wife (kidnapped and host to alien) and another host for reasons unimportant to this question. In the episode he comes across a Buddhist monastery and a lone monk, on the walls of the monastery is written the path to enlightenment, the monk attempts to teach Daniel, he tells him a riddle/truth/saying which is repeated throughout the episode and crops up in later episodes which supposedly will help him to reach a higher level of understanding:

"If you immediately know the candle light is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago"

It is never explained or elaborated on, i have committed much thought to its meaning and cannot find anything to my satisfaction but i feel there is a wisdom within it. What are your thoughts?

Peace

Originally posted by Maban
Many claims of avoiding debunking my "statements" may not be "conscious,"but they are appearing in your posts with a unavoidable degree of frequency, without evidence themselves. I feel a double standard is in effect.

There is no double-standard, I do not place myself here as anyone other than myself. I have no position to qualify because I offer no qualification. You on the other hand do.

Originally posted by Maban
Allow me to then state one thing clearly. On many occasions I miss to see your questions in any form. They appear to me convoluted and muddies by obvious opinion and bias. Whenst I answer one of your questions, you often claim that I dodged a question or am simply not knowledgeable in that topic. In many cases this is extremely false, I only answered the questions I took as questions, and not comment or opinion.

My only 'beef' is that you have assumed a stance of answering questions without providing a tanglible position from which you are answering those questions. You have made claims which are not only unsubstantiated but have been proven inaccurate. I am not accusing you of anything, I am merely stating that your opinion is no better or worse than anyone elses here. I would have more respect for you if you did offer more in the way of opinion, I am far more interested in how you think and feel, than I am in a group that I have no real proof even exists. I am not in the business of 'believe' her. I have provided you with an open mind and I still have that open mind, but can you say the same?

Originally posted by Maban
I did not assume that you knew nothing of PMC's. In addidition where did you fathom taht it "ended and began with Blackwater." What a naive statment, if I may be so blunt. Blackwater is neither the first, nor the only PMC. Where the hell did I state that?

Well as you stated that 'most people' wouldn't think anything of their use if it wasn't for Blackwater and I was the only one who had mentioned it, you do the maths...

Originally posted by Maban
I feel the only commonality that you and I share, is our affinity to misunderstand, and misinterpret each other. I wish you no ill will, nor quarrel, but may I be so blunt to state that your predispositions make that extremely hard to circumnavigate.

Nor I you, this is all about common ground and we have found it, I have found it with you certainly. If you fail to understand me it is perhaps through a lack of interest in me, but that is not something that I reciprocate, I am very interested in you.

Originally posted by Maban
My one extreme shortcoming is my inability to provide "tangible evidence." If i could, I would tell the world, but it would defeat all that which we have worked so hard for, and if anything betray the very memories of the dead whom gave thier lives to protect them. This all is an attempt to place our existence quietly into the limelight, and see people's reactions. In addition I offer to answer questions from my point of view. I have not lied to any of these people one iota, I simply possess no verifiable way to validate all that which I have said that falls beyond the boundaries of public knowledge.

If it falls beyond the bounds of what can be made public knowledge then shut up about it. We either need to know or we don't. Information is not some carrot to be dangled under our noses it is free to all of us who seek it. You want to keep it to yourself then do so, just stop waving it around like a set of credentials.

Originally posted by Maban
If any must know, my leave of absence is a summons to meet with the Icelandic Council. They wish to discuss the very evidence several of you have turned up. In addition this is a formal review of the events that have transpired here.

Well I hope you learn something, no doubt you'll be back in a week or so with that carrot too. Tell them I said hi.

Originally posted by Maban
I am here personally to reach out to those whom already understand certain aspects of our world which eludes many. In essence, I reach out to those whom are willing to do the same, rather than hide in an all encompassing shell of protection.

But that isn't what you are doing, you are answering questions about bits and bobs of this and that. Nothing more, nothing that cannot be found elsewhere on these boards with a little searching. You offer no certainties, no sureity, just your opinion, or even at time not even that, you offer the opinion of a group of people whom we have no idea even exists. In short you offer a belief system or a leap of faith and all your replies have been structured around that.

Originally posted by Maban
I think it may prove beneficial for both of us to take some time away from this thread, would you not agree? I have trouble understanding why you remain in an environment you clearly do not agree with, much less enjoy. If anything I feel only bitterness, repulsion, indecision, and cynicism has been brought to your posts. If you truly do not enjoy your environment, than take your leave form it; none is forcing you to remain. in effect allow the rest to carry on in dialogue, your objections have been duly noted.

Your lack of understanding and pique is most truly noted, but I'm perfectly happy here. I like you, you've got a bit of bite when you get going. Enjoy your sojourn and I'll see you when you get back.

Take care
KT

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


A few questions for KilgoreTrout.

I am curious to know what you are hoping to gain from this thread?

What exactly are you expecting from Maban?

Do you already know the answers to the questions you ask?

If you do is this to discredit him?

I hope you don't mind my asking but I have been puzzling for sometime over your 'interest', I have awaited your posts with almost as much eagerness as I have Mabans.

A few questions for KilgoreTrout.
Very nice of you to be interested but this is Maban's thread and I will only be brief, I'm not sure he'd approve.

I am curious to know what you are hoping to gain from this thread?

I don't know really, there are a number of things in his profile that struck a chord with me and that keep me coming back. But I certainly have no fixed agenda. I agree with him on a number of levels, I'm not overly impressed with his credentials though.

What exactly are you expecting from Maban?

Nothing beyond what he asks himself - understanding.

Do you already know the answers to the questions you ask?

Not strictly speaking, I'm not setting him up if that is what you are implying. Despite accusations from Maban that I am debunking, that is not the case, I am attempting to be open minded. In regards to the period of the world wars my acquired knowledge outweighs his significantly and his answers contradict the evidence considerably. I am not going to ignore that fact for the sake of good manners.

If you do is this to discredit him?

Why would I want to discredit him?

I hope you don't mind my asking but I have been puzzling for sometime over your 'interest', I have awaited your posts with almost as much eagerness as I have Mabans.

Thank you I think...and I don't mind the questions, perhaps they may allow Maban a better understanding of my 'motives' as he seems as unsure as you are.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Thank you for answering my questions.

What exactly are you expecting from Maban?

Nothing beyond what he asks himself - understanding.

Thats where I am puzzled, you don't 'appear' to have much understanding of his intentions and reasons for putting himself 'out' here and being open to questions about the Shards.

Do you already know the answers to the questions you ask?


Not strictly speaking, I'm not setting him up if that is what you are implying. Despite accusations from Maban that I am debunking, that is not the case, I am attempting to be open minded. In regards to the period of the world wars my acquired knowledge outweighs his significantly and his answers contradict the evidence considerably. I am not going to ignore that fact for the sake of good manners.

Never good to ignore facts for the sake of good manners, but I think the way in which you address his 'lack' of knowledge has in fact been somewhat lacking in manners at times, this doesn't do much for the exchange of information that I hoped would occur in this thread. It would be useful to many i'm sure if you would point out some specifics that you are calling him on so that we all may learn, I myself have only a broad knowledge of the events of WW11 so I am interested in the questions you ask, and the answers

If you do is this to discredit him?

Why would I want to discredit him?

Why? I don't know, I think perhaps you enjoy 'winding him up' or getting him to 'bite'? Where is the value in that? I think there is much less chance of getting information with that approach, and it is unpleasant to see.

I hope you don't mind my asking but I have been puzzling for sometime over your 'interest', I have awaited your posts with almost as much eagerness as I have Mabans.

Thank you I think...and I don't mind the questions, perhaps they may allow Maban a better understanding of my 'motives' as he seems as unsure as you are.

I hope you can see how your 'motives' are being perceived (at least by me) even if that is not your intention. I'm sure you don't wish to be misunderstood, and I thought you may believe that it was Mabans inability to understand you alone.

Here's to clarity in the future.

edit to sort my BB code

[edit on 21/7/2008 by A curious cat]

Originally posted by A curious cat
Thats where I am puzzled, you don't 'appear' to have much understanding of his intentions and reasons for putting himself 'out' here and being open to questions about the Shards.

The difficulty for me, is that I am a human, reasonably intelligent, reasonably well informed, I am not sure given that criteria that I wish to have groups of people 'directing' or 'manipulating' events that effect my existence. Therefore for me, that Maban comes here and presents that face, it is only right that I should offer my perspective to him. I understand why he believes in what he is doing, but he must understand also that some of us, or perhaps only me, wishes for an end to manipulation. Just because he feels that his influence is positive, doesn't mean that I have to agree. It may be subtle, but I have been honest in this intention. I would approach any such individual in the same way. If a Rockefeller or a Rothschild came to ATS I would be first in the queue. I don't want Maban to change who he is, but I want him to appreciate that I don't have to agree.

Never good to ignore facts for the sake of good manners, but I think the way in which you address his 'lack' of knowledge has in fact been somewhat lacking in manners at times, this doesn't do much for the exchange of information that I hoped would occur in this thread. It would be useful to many i'm sure if you would point out some specifics that you are calling him on so that we all may learn, I myself have only a broad knowledge of the events of WW11 so I am interested in the questions you ask, and the answers

Fair point, but if you read both sides of the discussion you will see that Maban has been no more or less tolerant of me. Maban has not provided any evidence that supports his perspective, none that has stood up to scrutiny, why should I? For your benefit...? Not my thread and my conversation was with Maban, I am not playing to an audience and I am not trying to affect anyone elses perspective. I work on the assumption that people have their own minds and don't require me to influence them.

If you wish to explore your knowledge of WW2 then do so with Maban. The points were raised by him, not me. If you wish to support his perspective do so, I won't interfere.

Why? I don't know, I think perhaps you enjoy 'winding him up' or getting him to 'bite'? Where is the value in that? I think there is much less chance of getting information with that approach, and it is unpleasant to see.

I don't 'enjoy' any of this to be quite honest and it is certainly not my intention to wind him up. As I have previously stated it is a two way street, Maban has been no more or less impolite than I have. I am being frank and direct, if that is unpleasant for you then I am sorry but that is who I am and I am not about to apologise for that. I can't see as I am hurting anyone, and in other areas of ATS Maban may have been labelled hoax by now. I don't agree with that mentality, but that doesn't mean that I think Maban, or I, are above critique. If Maban is personally offended I am sure he will let me know and I will address it with him.

I hope you can see how your 'motives' are being perceived (at least by me) even if that is not your intention. I'm sure you don't wish to be misunderstood, and I thought you may believe that it was Mabans inability to understand you alone.

Here's to clarity in the future.

As I said not my thread, if Maban misunderstands that is up to Maban to state. I appreciate your comments but perhaps you should simply address your own questions and leave me to address mine. Each to their own.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
Maban has not provided any evidence that supports his perspective, none that has stood up to scrutiny, why should I? For your benefit...? Not my thread and my conversation was with Maban, I am not playing to an audience and I am not trying to affect anyone elses perspective. I work on the assumption that people have their own minds and don't require me to influence them.

Ah now, there I was thinking this was a public forum and we are all here to learn.

I certainly address my questions to Maban for the benefit of all, which is in keeping I feel with the whole premise of this thread. If I had no interest in others I would address him privately as he has suggested to all that want to.

It's good that you have no care for others opinion of you.

If there are any accusations being made against KilgoreTrout I can vouch for her innocence, if needs be.

Originally posted by Cadbury
If there are any accusations being made against KilgoreTrout I can vouch for her innocence, if needs be.

I'm sorry if you think I was accusing KilgoreTrout of anything other than she appears to be on this thread.

Originally posted by A curious cat

I'm sorry if you think I was accusing KilgoreTrout of anything other than she appears to be on this thread.

And I'm sorry if you weren't. But you appeared to me to be insinuating that she may not have entirely honest motives, a few posts up. But, as I said, I apologise if you were not.

KilgoreTrout is perfectly capable of handling herself, though -- and I don't want to stick my nose in any more than I already have. So please continue.

reply to post by Cadbury


I think you may be referring to all that cryptic nonsense about who is and who isn't who they say they are some way back in the thread?

Well no, I have no idea what that was about and I have to say that I found all that extremely irritating, boring and a complete waste of energy.

Originally posted by A curious cat
I think you may be referring to all that cryptic nonsense about who is and who isn't who they say they are some way back in the thread?

What on earth would make you say that? I was referring to your exchanges with KilgoreTrout on this very page, Sir. Wasn't that obvious?

Well no, I have no idea what that was about and I have to say that I found all that extremely irritating, boring and a complete waste of energy.

Once upon a time I would have risen to this, but not today. You're actually fortuitous about that, do you know? I've been polite with you up until this point, so why you are trying to goad me now is absolutely beyond me.

Originally posted by A curious cat
Ah now, there I was thinking this was a public forum and we are all here to learn.

Yes it is a public forum, but beyond that I do not see your point. If you wish to blindly follow and accept all that you read and call that learning so be it. I do not, I learn by actively enquiring. If Maban requests that I leave his thread I would respect that, but otherwise I think you should listen to your own words, this is a public forum, I am acting within the T&Cs...what exactly is your problem, because you quite clearly have one?

I certainly address my questions to Maban for the benefit of all, which is in keeping I feel with the whole premise of this thread. If I had no interest in others I would address him privately as he has suggested to all that want to.

Well if it is any indicator I have gained nothing from either your questions or Maban's response to them. As I said each to their own. As you said public forum. Are you getting this yet? There is room for everyone here.

It's good that you have no care for others opinion of you.

Why should I? Do you define yourself by the way others see you? Just because I am not like you does not make me wrong. Why do you feel you have the right to judge? I fail to see any reasoning here. If you feel I am intruding upon your Maban experience I am apologise but this is not your thread and I repeat your own words, this is a public forum. If I have done anything wrong then take it up with the management. Otherwise you go about your business and I'll go about mine. As far as I am concerned you are now derailing Maban's thread, if you have any further issue with me personally I suggest you address them to me directly via U2U.

Originally posted by Cadbury

Originally posted by A curious cat
I think you may be referring to all that cryptic nonsense about who is and who isn't who they say they are some way back in the thread?

What on earth would make you say that? I was referring to your exchanges with KilgoreTrout on this very page, Sir. Wasn't that obvious?

Then I am mistaken, I thought as you and KilgoreTrout were involved in whatever that was all about before, about identities and such, 'that' was what you were referring to. After my exchange with KilgoreTrout, your 'vouching' for her made no sense to me at all.

As for goading you? How have you come to 'that' conclusion?

Not the smiley face I hope! What I said about the identity nonsense was fair, for the people that were not involved it was boring and a waste of energy, as is all the posturing and ego stroking that goes on sometimes. You must agree that it lends nothing useful to the thread.

I have to say I'm surprised that you have jumped to such a conclusion and 'lost your cool', you seem to be quite a laid back person. My whole reason for talking to KilgoreTrout was to try to curtail the negative feel that this thread keeps experiencing, and if you took my post as a personal attack then I apologise, I was actually trying to make light of the situation, hence the smiley,

Just for your information I am female

Ok, I eventually would wander back here...There is in fact no link with the adam w group as may have been inferred. But is the root of what he is saying true? Yes to the best of his knowledge he is being as honest as allowed.

If I am correct Maban's lodge is moving to a more secluded area right now, so its busy time for a bit. (A good choice orient in these times, but still not hidden enough, I think) He is indeed a 'card carrying member' and his group exists in both the physical and some other realms. he is well founded and answering questions according to his instruction which may or may not correlate with known history, but lets not forget history is rewritten, daily it is rewritten, and the current generation never knows the truth, and never will.......Well some day.... I live about 15 miles away from him, and no I do not attend a lodge proper and have never been to a meeting there with him. Nor could I say so if I did, but I have not.

Maban, correct?

Originally posted by Illahee
Maban, correct?

I hope Maban understands all that, I haven't a clue what you're going on about but then I don't belong to any such 'lodges', nor do I have any intention of (even if I possessed the correct appendages), I don't even don a pinny in the kitchen.

So, please Maban come back and make sense of all that for me...

reply to post by Illahee


Welcome back, Illahee. Would you care to elaborate further on this in Maban's absence or would you prefer to await his reply first? He should be back soon.

I will reply to all of your questions shortly. I have been in meeting with the Icelandic Council for the past week, and my local shard's Council for the past few days. This is the "formal" letter I was given as a personal response and to that of my Shard.

Illuminon ****** ** ****** [Maban]:

After deliberating your Shard’s most recent findings, we do not find sufficient evidence nor cause for an internal inquiry. Present duty and resource allocation would prohibit such action, and in effect prove only detrimental to our cause/organization due to the effort involved in such an investigation.

In addition we wish to voice our growing displeasure and concern with your most recent duties. Namely, your question and answer blog regarding the “Shards of The Illuminati.” Public reciprocation has been less than desirable in accordance with that which we were promised. Furthermore you are hereby warned for violating Directive Bylaw 5.a and 5.b:


“5.a No Illuminon with access to the Icelandic High Council will discuss or divulge internal affairs with non-council Illuminons.”

“5.b No Illuminon or ******* with access to the Icelandic High Council will discuss or divulge internal affairs/information with non-Illuminons.”


Any further violations of this directive will place you Mr. ****** [Maban] in contempt. Thereafter your duties will be reassigned and resources reallocated until such time as the Icelandic High Council deems you fit to return to your duties. Further collusion with separatist Illuminons or support of such calls to action will nullify your Illuminon status.

Your recent duties regarding the ****** project, have fallen behind schedule and are in grave need of your undivided attention. We wish to remind you that this is your first and foremost priority duty; none other duty takes precedent. Several High Councilors still see merit and potential in your most recently elected duties, and look forward to whatever discoveries your duties may reveal. We do wish in whole to remind you to uphold the three Principle Directive Bylaws.


“1.a Every Illuminon is to uphold and protect the Shards and their Illuminons.”

“1.b Every Illuminon is to uphold the Three Truths, and ensure their security from destructive forces.”

“1.c Every Illuminon’s final duty is to uphold the teachings of the ******* [Enlightened Ones].”


Your steadfast commitment to the ****** [Enlightened One's] teachings, and the three Principle Bylaws has earned you your privilege of High Council access, we wish you to not jeopardize this privilege over irrelevant banter and correspondence. Our providence is peace and unification, we find it difficult to fathom that an individual such as yourself would wish to betray these core teachings of the ******* [Enlightened Ones].

Cordially,
Icelandic High Councilor ****** ** ******

[signature]

Icelandic Unified Shards Representative
St. Petersburg, Russian Shard
6/16/08 13:07:33 IST

Answers to questions asked previously, will follow.

reply to post by Gandi

"If you immediately know the candle light is fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago"

Unfortunately this is not quite as straightforward as the other ones mentioned throughout the duration of the series.

There are a few ways to go about this one; essentially equivocal meanings:

1. If you walk into a room and immediately know that the light is fire, it is the same as walking into a room and smelling food, knowing that the meal must have been cooked long ago.
   
   
2. If you immediately know "what" something is, the "mystique" and/or "beauty" of it is lost, and it simply is. If you seek an absolute truth, or absolute answer, you will only be disappointed.
   
   
3. By analyzing everything, and over thinking things, what once could have been great is seen with all of its flaws. Rather than simply enjoying the meal you will obsess over the fact that the meal has grown cold, or that it no longer tastes the same. Had you not smelled the scent of its making, you many have never questioned how good it is. But, through over analysis and thinking, you diminish the beauty of once simple things.
   
   
4. The very over thinking of this very quote has undoubtedly lead you to believe it has some deep unobtainable meaning, but in its final discovery you learned that it was not what you had expected, if not disappointing in nature, a clever irony if I might say.
   

Hopefully that helps explain this quote; I'm glad you asked me a question I had a concrete answer for.

- Maban