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Shards of the Illuminati

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posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
 
Thinking towards a better future may help but what in your opinion is the most important thing that every individual reading this can do to effect the change that you speak of? After all you are here, but in your response just now, to curious cat I believe, you imply that the Shards merely manipulate and counter act. You react rather than act. This seems hardly the enlightened approach, why the subterfuge? What is the implied threat?

The system exists for an ancient reason, to help people. The democratic system may be broken, but it has yet to lose all its effectiveness. Using diplomacy and knowledge can help humanity best. However if that is a bridge too far than there is this: teaching. Teach all those whom you encounter the enlightened way, the way that WE MUST take for the sake of our future; if we wish a future at all.

Our approach has become more ungainly and less enlightened, yes. But that is a result to facilitate necessity, rather than desire. You cannot maintain certain methods if they are ineffectual. Would one rather risk it all, or risk a small change in the hopes of better combating your enemy to sooner return to your more "purist" ways? As for the "Implied threat" that implied threat would be indeed the NIA. I will elaborate in reference to your next question.



I am not a firm believer in either the Fabian or the Keynesian approach, I firmly feel that a return to a more 'natural order' is required. I don't believe in revolt either, been there done that read the book. However, with these options removed there is very little evidence of a positive change being effected. I would be interested in your point of view?


Interesting, I would certainly agree with your stance in relation to the Keynesian approach. However, when fighting a superior enemy, whom remains hidden and extremely powerful, the Fabian Strategy is all that truly remains. You mention that I have eluded to a "force," indeed I have. I fear that the NIA has deep connections with the "unsettling" of domestic and foreign events. The Shards feel that they are our top priority atop anything else. Much of the distrust, and ill feeling many more adept people subconsciously internalize, is caused in majority by the NIA's actions. Their actions are subtle and utilize subterfuge frequently. Any of the little aspects which people strain to see, are just the small "feelers" of NIA. Finding the roots of the NIA is akin to finding a needle in an exponentially growing pile of hay. Once ten bushels have been removed, it has doubled in size ten times. This is a reference more so to intelligence and information we gather on a daily basis. There is simply too much to sift through and thus requires different tactics.

Form my experience and expertise I believe that they are behind many events / groups in effect of bringing about certain "changes" in our world. I am unable to comment upon what these changes are, but I assure you are are not for the better. Their "methods" of extraditing these changes are nothing short of dark and deceptive. One of these changes is the implementation of of a credit only system, and the use of radio frequency identification tags on everyday products to better watch people. This intelligence gleaned form these seemingly benign actions gives them the intelligence necessary to begin segregating the individuals by habit, then by psychological profile, and then by threat assessment. Their main tool of control is fear and the promise of protection against invisible threats; while the visible ones go unnoticed. This is why we have had to adapt our strategies, to better combat theirs even if it is not the most enlightened

- Maban




posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


The reason I resist the "New World Order" title is not because of its definition. But because of its affiliation, and bastardized form regardless of its puritan definition. Therefore I express OUR definition as a New Earth Civilization. "Earth" recognizes all life on this planet as special and sacred, "World" does not. "Civilization" implies a new way of life, an improvement. An "Order" implies control, oversight, and an extinguishing of human rights/freedom. This is how we [The Shards] view the subtle differences between these two seemingly similar ideologies, but their wildly diverging outcomes.

I posses no facade, I merely promote a level of respect to all. And in truth my articulated speech is not far removed from my everyday speech. Perhaps more thought out in its delivery and orginization, but I cannot surmise that it has inhibited my message or personality in any way. If anything it lends clarity and conciseness to it. I have found that messages are often bastardized by interpretations, and reinterpretations. Like that of religions through the centuries. However much some may thing it detracts form the more enlightened aspects of its meaning, I prefer to risk it rather than a total misinterpretation. I would prefer risk a somewhat incomplete message, than that of a reinterpreted and bastardized one. Hopefully this better defines my motives.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Maban
The system exists for an ancient reason, to help people. The democratic system may be broken, but it has yet to lose all its effectiveness. Using diplomacy and knowledge can help humanity best. However if that is a bridge too far than there is this: teaching. Teach all those whom you encounter the enlightened way, the way that WE MUST take for the sake of our future; if we wish a future at all.


The democratic system is not broken it is corrupted, it needs refinement and it needs a damn good clean, but it provides an adequate system on which to build a more meritocratic system. Teaching yes, but not just enlightenment, that will come of its own given the right stimulus, what is required is providing the information and skills required to adapt to change and to more importantly recognise the need for change.

Secrecy may appear to help, in fact all it does is reinforce the status quo. We have conducted foreign affairs and diplomacy in this way for a thousand years, it has bred distrust and even great malignacies. More than anything I believe that this is holding back progress.


Originally posted by Maban
Our approach has become more ungainly and less enlightened, yes. But that is a result to facilitate necessity, rather than desire. You cannot maintain certain methods if they are ineffectual. Would one rather risk it all, or risk a small change in the hopes of better combating your enemy to sooner return to your more "purist" ways? As for the "Implied threat" that implied threat would be indeed the NIA. I will elaborate in reference to your next question.


I do not imply purity, just honesty and openess, we have at our disposal a brilliant tool, and the means with which to conduct an war of information, as you yourself stated, a war of the mind. Exploration of as many means of communicating this idea, an ability to amalgamate them all and find common ground, for that is all that is required. Secret diplomacy is best left to the liars, enlightenment should mean truth and openness, a lack of fear and the knowing that all actions are good and all reactions burdened with too much forethought.


Originally posted by Maban
Interesting, I would certainly agree with your stance in relation to the Keynesian approach. However, when fighting a superior enemy, whom remains hidden and extremely powerful, the Fabian Strategy is all that truly remains.


Change occurs, if left to the laws of supply and demand, naturally. Civilisations have come and gone because of corruption, manipulation and the decision of the few as to what is right and what is wrong. Your method, however well intentioned offers no originality, and though the concept has survived the ages, it still hasn't got it right has it?

The Fabians believe that social change can be effected gradually, but given the concept was developed at the turn of the last century one can only see the harm and not the benefits. When Fabian, HG Welles wrote in praise of the unifying aspect of war and the necessity for it (pre-empting WW1), he had no idea that all it would take was exposure to that war to realise how very wrong he was. Too, too late. It destroyed him.


Originally posted by Maban
You mention that I have eluded to a "force," indeed I have. I fear that the NIA has deep connections with the "unsettling" of domestic and foreign events. The Shards feel that they are our top priority atop anything else. Much of the distrust, and ill feeling many more adept people subconsciously internalize, is caused in majority by the NIA's actions.


So who are the NIA and who pays their wages? Someone must do, someone has organised the group and set the directive, can you expand?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


You raise some very pertinent as well as prominent points. But I feel I may have mis-portrayed our circumstance. We are in a reactive invisible war, if you will bare with me. Do not misunderstand me, your ideologies are very well suited towards us Illuminons. But, the detail I feel I may have failed to mention is the fact that these ideologies are truly enlightened, but cannot solve our present tactical disposition.

I fear that our little conflict with the NIA and ourselves, is teetering on the brink of war. We no longer possess the luxury to fight however and wherever we choose. We are fighting now for our very survival, and when one is in survival mode, one must forgo the luxury of fighting with puritan ideals.

More recently our political and economic actions have fallen by the wayside. Recently violent transgressions have been thrown upon the Shards. We have had numerous attempts at a physical dismemberment of our orginization. We have begun to temporarily suspend certain ideals as a means to ensure our survival. We do not wish a repeat of history, and feel it imperative that we succeed no matter what.

Every Illuminon is given special operations grade military training (active Illuminons). We realized long ago that despite our distaste and hatred towards violence, we too can fall prey to it. Therefore we have begun implementing more overt and direct action campaigns. Believe me when I say this move has not been taken lightly, nor has it been graciously accepted by the Shards. Many argue for its cessation, but enough see its usefulness in this time of need, that it is widely utilized. So I reiterate, maintaining higher ideals is an enlightened way of living but, when someone is fighting for their very existence, very survival, personal perspectives change rather quickly. The true test of our worth is a test of balance. Balancing our most cherished ideals and hopes, with the necessary sacrifices of them to ensure our survival. Simply put, we must ensure that we do not become that which we are fighting. But I fear that this war to be has only just begun.

I belie that these recent events and surges of action against us, is one of the fundamental reasons that my request to start this thread was suddenly, and inexplicably approved.

NIA, The National Intelligence Agency is a name we managed to glean form some apprehended documents and computer files. The NIA is structured in an almost undetectable and untraceable way, thus their ever elusive nature. They operate underground with various leaders, like that that of cells. They operate from a wide variety of locations, and possess the capacity for establishing a complex, and vanishing in record times. One day a cell leader may be renting in an office building, or working out of a shipping container the next. There movements are erratic and random, and almost impossible to predict or trace. The cells issue various instructions which are then discreetly passed on via circuitous patterns to their subordinates. The subordinates are employed by many, allow me to repeat myself many, federal and international agencies, governments, and organizations abroad. They are indeed paid by these organizations as well as by the NIA proper. The various agents and associates to the NIA will execute their orders to whatever end. In many cases only an executive or CO will know what their orders are and will not inform their subordinates where or whom the orders are from. They will either execute their orders as apart of their normal duties where they are employed, or outside of them depending upon the task. One commonality among these subordinates is either the less common loyalty to the NIA proper, or the more common loyalty to their CO or manager, and an insatiable thirst for money. As for actual funding for side operations and the NIA orginization itself, it is collected in various ways. They have been involved with many crime syndicates and other black market rings. They do not directly interface with these organizations but simply provide services and contact information, in result getting a percentage of the final deal. They also receive funding from "lost funds" via laundering and other methods. Just as well they receive bribery funds from blackmail type operations. They possess sufficient capital, political, and military weight to what they wish, when they wish with little to no indication as to who or what did it; while maintaining absolute discretion and invisibility. They are by all definitions ghosts. It is only with perseverance, intellect, and sheer luck that we have learned as much as we have. To uncover the basic structure of this orginization took over fifty years. My grandfather told me before he died, that he was actually at the Council meeting where the "theory" of NIA was first proposed.

The system may be broken in an Illuminon's eyes who knows what utopia looks like, however I will admit that corruption is rampant; one of the very reinforcing actions which perpetuates the NIA with ungodly speed and force.

I hope you can understand why we are not the pure idealistic people many may wish us to be, but would you rather have us die in a unwinnable battle with superhuman ideals? Or survive lone enough to ensure the continued survival and security of humanity, until the time is right for the unveiling of truth? You decide, how does one win untenable odds against an enemy they hardly know? Even the best training and forethought can account for so much victory.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 06:55 AM
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Maban, Sir. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions (and everyone else's) in such a well-written and thorough manner.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Well, what can I say to that?

I'm walking away from this one for a time. I need to think.

I shall return.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 


I can assume, I think, given your age, that you do not have children, but I hope that in that eventuality you will remember what I have to say. I have son, I carried him for nine months, give or take a week or so. I felt him coming alive within me, I felt him move when he heard a loud noise. When I laid in a warm bath he would stick out a foot or a hand, I never knew which, to hold. He would kick me awake in the wee small hours when I needed to sleep. When he finally emerged, I knew no love greater, I gave birth standing up and he fell from me and covered me from toe to neck in our shared lifes blood in one enormous splash. There is little dignity in the birthing process, it is hard and it is painful, but worth every second to see the life that you have helped create look at you and know.

For fourteen months I fed my son myself, giving to him my strength until I had none left to give, but knowing that it was his to take and I shall never forget the moments of complete silence and perfection as I nursed him and felt my body giving to him what was his to take. When it came time t stop, I broke my heart knowing that I was nolonger the giver of his life and that I nolonger had absolute control. But I knew that though he needed me in different ways he still needed me.

There reaches a point where every child starts to answer back, to defy your authority and to 'buck' the system you impose. It is a necessary and integral part of all our development, but it is the action of the parent at this stage of its life that can most influence the adult it will become.

Faced with a child before you, tears streaming down his face, foot stamping, fists flying...anger, fear, frustration all tied up in one firey little ball, it easy to react with anger, to strike back with your own fury and frustration, but the only way that you can help that child to get through that, is not to give into the whim, not to walk away and hope he calms down, but to envelope him in your arms, take the blows and the bites, until they cease, letting him know through your actions that no matter what you love him. And when the fight has gone, and the tears have dried you can talk, explain and rationalise.

When I was a child at school, we never sang many traditional hymns, we sang songs like 'Brown Girl in the Ring' and 'I saw three ships' and 'when I'm 64', but one song that we sang has always stayed with me, and I believe in it.



Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war
I dreamed I saw a mighty room
The room was filled with men
And the paper they were signing said
They'd never fight again

And when the papers all were signed
And a million copies made
They all joined hands and bowed their .s
And grateful prayers were prayed
And the people in the streets below
Were dancing round and round
And guns and swords and uniforms
Were scattered on the ground

Last night I had the strangest dream
I ever dreamed before
I dreamed the world had all agreed
To put an end to war


www.lyricsmode.com...

By believing that violence is the only answer to violence you have created the problem yourself. You have decided that you kind is worth saving and that the ends justify the means. They do not. This is the system that we have lived with for centuries, and while in less enlightened tmes we had not the means to convey this message we have now. You are as much the enemy of the rest of us as they are. The only way to combat hate is through love. The only way to combat ignorance is through understanding.

I am not and will not raise my son to be cannon fodder in a war of attrition, or a war of profit or any war. No war is worth fighting, no death is justified, no suffering is necessary just so that one group of people can be given the right to exist. If your people have to fight to survive then you should question whether they have anything truly worth preserving. I see a light in you, but you shroud it in beliefs that you have been given, you are told that you must do this, and you seem to do so without question. You and that are the enemy of us all, it is you not them that is holding back progress, you will destroy the hope of us all acheiving peace because you think that you are right and they are wrong. There is no such thing and the sooner we all unite to compromise the sooner peace can and will be acheived. If you and your enemies do not destroy us all first that is.

The comment was made in another thread that it is because of women like me that men created secret societies in the first place. I think that he is right, but i would qualify that it is because of these men, that shut the door in the face of women, who only wish to stand at their side bathed in the light, that all these endeavours have failed.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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1)Why do black people AKA"The Goyim Race" have so little in your NWO eyes?
2)Why the hell did you bury, lock away, and destroy our knowledge(the lack of knowledge is the reason why we act the way we do)?
3)How far do you think the rabbit hole truly goes?What do you think goes on inside this rabbit hole?
4)The math equation to life is unbalanced, how long do you have til we "The Goyim Race" makes it balanced again?
5)Why have your organization hide all the true history of the world?(you know just as I know it is locked away in a vault in the vatican library)
6)What was the real reson why the Library of Alexandria burned if it housed all of the worlds most precious history?
7)Knowing black people(The Great Goyim Race) are the original Jews from Jeruselum, why have you changed the bible since the four colors of the black man(black,brown,yellow,red)is gods chosen people?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I truly understand you distress over our newly adopted ways. And I wholly understand and place great meaning in your concerns. But I would then ask you. Would you rather we sacrifice our lives, our existence, so that your son may live in a world free form these people's tyranny. Or condemn our ways and surely commit your son to an inevitable war? Bluntly put, it is either our fight, or yours [humanity's].

Combating hate with love is all good and well, however we do not possess the physical ability to simply convince our enemy that love is the path. They would sooner kill us than allow us to utter a single word.

I would also emphasize that we do not actively "seek" victory. We only seek stabilization. It is not our duty to wholly defeat these people, only to survive and ensure that humanity survives. It is the duty and the word of the Enlightened Ones to end this conflict once and for all. To recreate our world in a new understanding and light. They realized long ago that humanity would not be capable of escaping its own pitfalls, and that they would need to uplift humanity. At the same they realized that why we learn there needed to be someone whom was capable of ensuring our survival, thus the Illuminons.

You may disapprove of our methods with highly valid reasons. However, I feel that these reasons are not sufficient enough to lay down our lives in a fools quest for victory by love. Were it the case, we would all be dead by tomorrow. Our deaths would mark a tremendous failure in humanity's name, and a tremendous loss in humanity's ability to resist such forces.

I do understand and respect your idealism of fighting hate and war with peace and love. But we do not possess the means to do so. Do not misunderstand me. I do not condone "the ends justify the means," I abhor that philosophy. Thus my statement:


The true test of our worth is a test of balance. Balancing our most cherished ideals and hopes, with the necessary sacrifices of them to ensure our survival. Simply put, we must ensure that we do not become that which we are fighting. But I fear that this war to be has only just begun.

In addition I would add that it was a woman who united the Canadian and Icelandic Shards. There are many women within the shards. I actually recently saw a report placing the female to male Illuminon population at 61% respectively. They have more than an equal say, and have decided it to be in our best interests to protect ourselves and our ways with force. I recently helped command a sweep operation to collect fragmented NIA information after we managed to track down one cell. Not much was left but a few useful things were gleaned. Among this team were several women. If memory serves me right two of them do indeed have children. They have decided to fight for their children, rather than risk passing on a unwinnable war. We do not sacrifice ideals, we simply find the most effective way to preserve them. If that entails temporarily introducing the serpent to paradise, so be it. Remember, that we are only trying to stabilize matters, until our duties are lifted upon the shoulders of the Enlightened Ones; then things will take a dramatic change.

I understand your mistrust of sacrificing certain freedoms and ideals as a means of betterment. I understand your mistrust of secrets. But these are of the very few methods left to us to adequately defend ourselves, and humanity en whole. Would you rather us fight, or our children?

- Maban



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Maban
I truly understand you distress over our newly adopted ways. And I wholly understand and place great meaning in your concerns. But I would then ask you. Would you rather we sacrifice our lives, our existence, so that your son may live in a world free form these people's tyranny. Or condemn our ways and surely commit your son to an inevitable war? Bluntly put, it is either our fight, or yours [humanity's].


I apologise, my attempt at analogy was obviously lost on you. I have no distress at your 'newly' adopted ways, in fact that is just it, there is nothing new about them at all. Same old, same old. What I fail to understand is why you consider yourself to be right, whilst demonstrating that you are no different than they are. Whoever THEY may be.

You and yours, by your own admission, operate in secrecy, you undertake paramilitary training, you infiltrate organisations and groups etc etc etc. How does that make you any better than the rest of the meddlers hoping to project an image of the future of your own making.


Originally posted by Maban
Combating hate with love is all good and well, however we do not possess the physical ability to simply convince our enemy that love is the path. They would sooner kill us than allow us to utter a single word.


You have uttered many words, have they killed you? Hate is not a thing that can be combated, hate is a normal emotion, we are not vulcan and nor would I wish us to be. But we can absorb the violent reactions of other by attempting to understand why they have reacted in this way, compromise, common ground, discourse are the tools that we should use.

It is within human nature to want to fight, we have evolved to distrust the strange, the different, the interloper, we cannot change that fundamental programming, but we can understand that we don't always have to act upon it. A racist may hate someone whom he percieves to be of a different race, but really all they are reacting to is the difference and a primordial response to that difference.


Originally posted by Maban
I would also emphasize that we do not actively "seek" victory. We only seek stabilization. It is not our duty to wholly defeat these people, only to survive and ensure that humanity survives. It is the duty and the word of the Enlightened Ones to end this conflict once and for all. To recreate our world in a new understanding and light. They realized long ago that humanity would not be capable of escaping its own pitfalls, and that they would need to uplift humanity. At the same they realized that why we learn there needed to be someone whom was capable of ensuring our survival, thus the Illuminons.


Why do we need to be stabilised? This I do not understand. We can come to a decision of peace, that is not to say there will not be quibbles, the occasional violent uprising, but taming nature has never been a necessity in my eyes. However much we may feel that we have distanced ourselves from this planet we are still very much a part of it, and it a part of us. You can never end conflict, we can end war, but conflict will always exist because it is a part of nature. If it is in our nature to destroy humanities existence on this planet then so be it, rather that than we destroy the planet itself. Life will continue without us, we are not that important. Have you ever imagined what it would be like to stand in the centre of a whirlwind, to hear the voice of chaos and marvelled at all that is creation?


Originally posted by Maban
You may disapprove of our methods with highly valid reasons. However, I feel that these reasons are not sufficient enough to lay down our lives in a fools quest for victory by love. Were it the case, we would all be dead by tomorrow. Our deaths would mark a tremendous failure in humanity's name, and a tremendous loss in humanity's ability to resist such forces.

I do understand and respect your idealism of fighting hate and war with peace and love. But we do not possess the means to do so. Do not misunderstand me. I do not condone "the ends justify the means," I abhor that philosophy. Thus my statement:


The true test of our worth is a test of balance. Balancing our most cherished ideals and hopes, with the necessary sacrifices of them to ensure our survival. Simply put, we must ensure that we do not become that which we are fighting. But I fear that this war to be has only just begun.


There is balance, life and death. We are either alive or we are dead. For every life on this planet there is another to take its place, there are billions of humans now, where once there were few, but how many species have been lost at our expense. It is not for us to impose a balance, creation does that for us. Disease serves to reduce populations, over crowding causes societal conflict, we are driven to adaptation or extinction. The problem that we now face is that that world has run out of room, in modern history we have seen ethnic cleansing as a means to solving the overcrowding in Europe. Not to mention on how to sustain them.

We are on the brink of a world wide famine, which I am sure it is hoped by some, will cause widespread depopulation in Asia and Africa. The modern version of the pioneer is the developer and the corporation, lately combined, given the opportunity I am sure that they will move in to 'save the day', ie introduce 'western style democracy' in exchange for raping the resources of that country. What balance are you hoping to strike here?

Who are you Maban? And i don't mean your name, i mean who are you? Where are you? I can't see you? You are nothing, a no-one, a nobody and guess what, so am I. You may be a part of some covert, secret society but when it comes down to it, you have no proof of that, so you are no more qualified to dictate what is right and wrong in this life. You are merely it seems supporting a cause. I would like to speak to you, instead I feel as though I am talking to a programmed automaton.

We are nothing more than a glitch, a moment, a happenchance, a stroke of luck - we are all the result of a series of events that bring us, right here to this point. I did not tell you about my son because I am concerned for him and whether he would die in a war. I have absolutely no control over that, what I have control of is the man he can be. And I hope that I can help him to be not like you Maban, blindly following a cause he knows nothing about, not really. You without question accepted that the information of your origins was a fabrication or exaggeration or a misinterpretation. So desperately do you need to believe that you have a purpose, that you belong to something - so desperately...anything rather than just be you. My heart bleeds for what you could be.

If when my son is 18 he wants to shoot guns and kill bad guys, then there is not a lot I can do about it. I don't believe in the necessity of violence, that does not mean I do not understand the reasons that violence occurs. Just as I can do very little to prevent that first broken heart, I can do nothing if he choose to fight in a war.


Originally posted by Maban
In addition I would add that it was a woman who united the Canadian and Icelandic Shards. There are many women within the shards. I actually recently saw a report placing the female to male Illuminon population at 61% respectively. They have more than an equal say, and have decided it to be in our best interests to protect ourselves and our ways with force. I recently helped command a sweep operation to collect fragmented NIA information after we managed to track down one cell. Not much was left but a few useful things were gleaned. Among this team were several women. If memory serves me right two of them do indeed have children. They have decided to fight for their children, rather than risk passing on a unwinnable war. We do not sacrifice ideals, we simply find the most effective way to preserve them. If that entails temporarily introducing the serpent to paradise, so be it. Remember, that we are only trying to stabilize matters, until our duties are lifted upon the shoulders of the Enlightened Ones; then things will take a dramatic change.


Have you not heard that the female of the species is more deadly than the male. Women are no less susceptible to brain washing than men you know. Women are as attracted to power and violence and glory than men. We are all very different in our packaging, in our preferences and abilities, but in essence, at our core, we are very much the same. The segregation of the genders is after all a very recent adaptation in the lifespan of our species. It happened around the same time as the birth of civilisation I believe.


Originally posted by Maban
I understand your mistrust of sacrificing certain freedoms and ideals as a means of betterment. I understand your mistrust of secrets. But these are of the very few methods left to us to adequately defend ourselves, and humanity en whole. Would you rather us fight, or our children?


I would just rather nature took its course. We should fight for fairness, we should fight for freedom, for those weaker than ourselves and to save our own family, but the only fighting going on right now is for profit and dominance. Imposing our way of life on theirs and reaping the rewards. Since Sir Francis Drake nicked the Spainards goal this has been the way of the world. Why are your lot so special, what makes you so ‘good’ or worth saving, when hundreds of others are dying? Why should you live and those children die? Why should we care about you and your own people? Do you have any unique or special powers that would otherwise be lost?

If all you have to offer is more fighting and more war, then no I’m not very impressed, whatever you may think you are, you are not enlightened. Too much meddling and subterfuge already thank you very much. It will take more than a little life and death battle between you and the NIA to equalise that imbalance. And all the while (tick tock tick tock) you could be using all those skills and resources to stop children from dying. Yeah, I can see why you feel so ‘special’.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
1)Why do black people AKA"The Goyim Race" have so little in your NWO eyes?
How did you come to that conclusion? There are many black people within the Shards as well. And By the way, the NWO is not of our creation, we abhor it. We are the creators and supporters of the New Earth Civilization.


2)Why the hell did you bury, lock away, and destroy our knowledge(the lack of knowledge is the reason why we act the way we do)?

I feel you speak of others, and not ourselves. I am not attempting to shift blame, but honestly I am having a hard time following. We have only "suppressed" three truth, no more and no less. These too will also come out in due time.


3)How far do you think the rabbit hole truly goes? What do you think goes on inside this rabbit hole?

I'm not sure to what you are specifically referring... however if the rabbit hole where the "secrecy" around us, humanity, and the past, then it is shallow indeed.


4)The math equation to life is unbalanced, how long do you have til we "The Goyim Race" makes it balanced again?
I honestly do not understand the question, much less am I able to provide an answer. Could you please clarify, a little context?


5)Why has your organization hide all the true history of the world?(you know just as I know it is locked away in a vault in the vatican library)
They do indeed possess several of the dead sea scrolls, and other artifacts, but not that many. I might also add that it was the Catholic Church that was essentially responsible for the Bavarian Illuminati's downfall. We also do not support nor fight organized religion, it is totally hands off. If anything, we are simple businessmen, scientists, and philosophers. We only hold three secrets, that is all.


6)What was the real reason why the Library of Alexandria burned if it housed all of the worlds most precious history?
Honestly, your guess is as good as mine.


7)Knowing black people(The Great Goyim Race) are the original Jews from Jerusalem, why have you changed the bible since the four colors of the black man(black,brown,yellow,red)is gods chosen people?
This would be the first time that I have ever heard of "us" changing the bible. I believe you are referring to the Catholic Church. And for ancestral reasons I hope you could see why we have... distanced ourselves from them as greatly as possible.

I feel I was unable to even nearly adequately answer your questions, could you please provide a little more detail for me to draw from. I am attempting to understand where you are coming from.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 

I have no distress at your 'newly' adopted ways, in fact that is just it, there is nothing new about them at all. Same old, same old. What I fail to understand is why you consider yourself to be right, whilst demonstrating that you are no different than they are. Whoever THEY may be.
You and yours, by your own admission, operate in secrecy, you undertake paramilitary training, you infiltrate organizations and groups etc etc etc. How does that make you any better than the rest of the meddlers hoping to project an image of the future of your own making.


I feel we are both missing each others' points. I am apparently not seeing your point f view, and It is obvious to me that you are missing mine entirely. Let me try to directly answer your questions:

We are not "right," we simply exist to ensure the continuity of global stability. If we are right about anything, It is that we are right about defending ourselves, and that is all we are right about. What makes us different is that we are fighting for our survival, the NIA is fighting for dominance. We did not start this engagement, they did. But we will not allow them to succeed, that is our only objective. Winning is not our objective. We are more than contempt with a stalemate.

We are not projecting an Image of our own mind. We are only ensuring that the image of the world to be [In the Enlightened Ones'] eyes doesn't fail because we are unable to survive long enough for them to help humanity. How does this make us any better; I would like to think that us resorting to less to savory methods (in your mind) as a means of surviving a group whose only goal is domination, classifies us as the good guys. If this is not the case one could follow through and state that because the United States fought the Nazis in WWII and resorted to war, that the United States was then unworthy of survival because they could not extend diplomacy, peace, and love to the Nazi's and prevent war. Wouldn't that be accurate If I followed the same line of thinking?


You have uttered many words, have they killed you? Hate is not a thing that can be combated, hate is a normal emotion, we are not vulcan and nor would I wish us to be. But we can absorb the violent reactions of other by attempting to understand why they have reacted in this way, compromise, common ground, discourse are the tools that we should use.
They have not killed me because they do not listen, just the same I have not provided any tangible threat to them, personally. I will state that over three hundred of us died before we decided to finally take direct action against them. We tried diplomacy, pacifism; it did not yield any results but more dead friends and allies. Hate... normal emotion... ... ... I cannot even respond to that logic, or lack thereof, but you are entitled to your own opinion miss. So explain to me this then since I have indeed grown confused. If we could have better understood the Nazi mind, and their drives, we could have found peace through understanding, rather than war?


Why do we need to be stabilised?
Because there is more than mere human nature at work in this world, thus stabilization.


This I do not understand. We can come to a decision of peace, that is not to say there will not be quibbles, the occasional violent uprising, but taming nature has never been a necessity in my eyes.
I am confused again. You mention the ails of people whom seek to gain control and whom hold secrets, yet you regard humanity as capable of a decision of peace. I am sorry but these two notions presented as fact are counter intuitive. We are not fighting human nature, but individuals whom wish to destroy humanity and make it into their own image. We DO NOT do this. We have been presented a possible future, if humanity so chooses to embrace it when the time is right.


However much we may feel that we have distanced ourselves from this planet we are still very much a part of it, and it a part of us. You can never end conflict, we can end war, but conflict will always exist because it is a part of nature. If it is in our nature to destroy humanities existence on this planet then so be it, rather that than we destroy the planet itself. Life will continue without us, we are not that important.
All life is equal, all life is precious, the loss of any life that lives in the light is grieved by every Illuminon. Life that is cast into shadow is fought and their defeat is welcomed as a reprieve, not a victory.


Have you ever imagined what it would be like to stand in the center of a whirlwind, to hear the voice of chaos and marveled at all that is creation?
I think I understand to some degree, in which case I have not imagined it. I have been there. An instant that became an hour, when all seemed to stop and the very forces of the universe were testing us, pitting us against death itself. So yes, I know.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems you see life in absolutes. When no such thing, as you yourself admitted. Life is fluid, dynamic. We seek a certain end, and yet the universe sends us down another path. WE play with the cards we have dealt, while trying to look at eh big picture. I fear you see the big picture, but fail to work the every day dynamics into it. Rendering it a lifeless ideal which does no more than collect dust. We must work actively with our environment to enhance our ideals, rather than support vestigial ones.


Who are you Maban? And i don't mean your name, i mean who are you? Where are you? I can't see you? You are nothing, a no-one, a nobody and guess what, so am I.
I may speak in an uncanny ans somewhat overly sophisticated matter, but you miss, speak in riddles. And I confess i do find it tiring. I feel I mange to state my message clearly and concisely, you are the first to dispute this clarity. I feel that you are also the first which I am unable to follow or understand in the simplest forms.


You may be a part of some covert, secret society but when it comes down to it, you have no proof of that, so you are no more qualified to dictate what is right and wrong in this life.
This is news to me, I am dictating right and wrong... since when. I am only telling my story, my experiences, my knowledge. This is truly a revelation to me miss.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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You are merely it seems supporting a cause. I would like to speak to you, instead I feel as though I am talking to a programmed automaton.
I do support a cause, but do not fear I do have a pulse. And I feel as though I am talking to one whom has never seen strife, nor hardship; although I know that to be a fallacy. I am here representing the Shards, if you wish to truly speak to me, send me a U2U, and then I can certainly speak miss.


And I hope that I can help him to be not like you Maban, blindly following a cause he knows nothing about, not really.
Dear miss, do not make assumptions about me that you cannot definitively state. I do not follow blindly after our leaders. I think critically I ask hard questions, and demand detailed answers. I have questioned many so called "orders" and other such things. I am considered to be the one who upsets a "natural balance." I make grate ripples in our Shard and ensure no stagnation nor complacency can occur. I may not nothing truly of our history, but I have earned form its mistakes, and that is all that truly matters. I stare steadfast into the future ensuring that all is well. I do in fact know about he Enlightened Ones, their plans their abilities, their light, that is all that I place 'trust" in, good miss.


You without question accepted that the information of your origins was a fabrication or exaggeration or a misinterpretation. So desperately do you need to believe that you have a purpose, that you belong to something - so desperately...anything rather than just be you. My heart bleeds for what you could be.
Had I known better I would have taken this as arrogance and conceit. I had accepted long ago that much was amiss about our history, but as I said it bares little importance. But is this again not a contradiction on your part? How can I both unequivocally accept what I am told by the Council, yet dispel with their story? These are the details that truly baffle me about you miss. I do not desperately one for a purpose, my purpose is clear and concise. Protect those whom I love and cherish, would you call that foolhardy?


If when my son is 18 he wants to shoot guns and kill bad guys, then there is not a lot I can do about it. I don't believe in the necessity of violence, that does not mean I do not understand the reasons that violence occurs.
Yes you can, you can teach him that there is a higher path, a more worthy one. That fighting is only right when it is used to protect himself and his loved ones.


Have you not heard that the female of the species is more deadly than the male. Women are no less susceptible to brain washing than men you know. Women are as attracted to power and violence and glory than men.
I did indeed miss. Women are favored as fighter pilots for the innate ability to multitask and for their unprecedented unpredictability. If you will permit me, you have demonstrated that with absolute grace and efficiency.


I would just rather nature took its course. We should fight for fairness, we should fight for freedom, for those weaker than ourselves and to save our own family, but the only fighting going on right now is for profit and dominance.
Miss, this is exactly what we have been fighting for all along; is it truly that hard to see? Nature should be allowed to take its course, unless we decide that we wish to become more than we are meant to be. This is what us Illuminons have become, more than we feel we were meant to be. If defying nature and overcoming our instabilities is looked upon as disruptive and evil, then I feel we can agree upon nothing.


Why are your lot so special, what makes you so ‘good’ or worth saving, when hundreds of others are dying? Why should you live and those children die? Why should we care about you and your own people? Do you have any unique or special powers that would otherwise be lost?
Children?... We do not ask for your pity nor support, just your understanding, that is all we have ever asked. Why shouldn't of us live when human nature causes people to commit heinous acts of murder against children? The only "special" trait we possess is this. We are representatives of humanity to the Enlightened Ones. We provided interface when they need our help, and we answered that call, nothing more,nothing less.


If all you have to offer is more fighting and more war, then no I’m not very impressed, whatever you may think you are, you are not enlightened.

Miss none of us are enlightened, not yet. That path is yet before us.


Too much meddling and subterfuge already thank you very much.
So quick to judge after such a short interface, with only one of our number? You are not an Illuminon, and in my mind you cannot make such a absolute judgment. I find that a poor decision to make, but a decision which is yours none the less.


It will take more than a little life and death battle between you and the NIA to equalize that imbalance.
Absolutely true, that is why thing are the way they are. It will be left up to the enlightened ones to bring the light, not us.


And all the while (tick tock tick tock) you could be using all those skills and resources to stop children from dying. Yeah, I can see why you feel so ‘special’.
Mind your step, you tread on absolute arrogance. We are helping those in need, especially children since the future belongs to them. Since when did I unequivocally state that we are simply ignoring them?

I feel you have made one critical mistake in your calculations. That which you did not bother to ask, you assumed. And miss, the saying holds very true. "Assumptions make and ass of you and I." I have not placed myself upon the moral pedestal, nor rode on my high horse, I do not nearly deserve that place. None but the few exceptional individual people in our world deserve that privilege. And miss, I feel you have graciously placed yourself atop it, and from there pass judgment.

- Maban



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Maban
 


We have indeed misunderstood each other, in fact we have completely missed each other. Do you think that I feel superior to you? If you have something worth saving, then share it with us all, that is what I am saying. Cruise the boards, feel the fear that permeates, realise that maybe just maybe the answer is right here. There is no such thing as an exceptional person, there are many who see the light in a great burst of spotaneity and there are others like me who have worked hard to find the switch, but who have been helped, without question, without want of reward or recognition. I have never met so many incredible people in my life as there are on these boards. And it has made me aware of just how important dialogue without boundaries is.

I don't have a religious bone in my body, but can I feel the divine? Yes I can and I have just explained why. All that is, is meant to be. The only hope I have, is that we can get it right before it is too late. Enlightenment can be defined as many things, for me it is the most obvious, to be unburdened. To be without weight, to not carry my past life on my shoulder. Many years ago, when I first started studying abnormal psychology (lay, I have no qualification), I came across Maslow's heirarchy of needs. About then I'd say I was about ready to cross into the third tier - Love and Belonging. For a number of reasons and because of barriers I had constructed, it has taken me a long time to 'realise' this. I feel that I have about got it pat and I feel I may be entering into Esteem.

I have not had a 'religious' experience I have had a realisation of the infinite and wonderful possibilities. I have realised that on the most fundamental of levels we are all the same. We just have to find the ties that bind us. And I have found the ties that bind me to others. And it is good, but oh it could be so much better, if all of us who can, just drop the facade and just be. Show everyone else that it is okay, we can do this, we can find a way, but we HAVE to do it together, we have to help each other. No one can be told what to do, but if they need a hand to get them started then we should offer them that hand if it is in our power to do so.

I could list a thousand names of those who inspire me, I could go on to name a thousand more. This site and its ethics inspire me, that is why I can't keep away. I have learnt more about people on this site than I ever could in a lifetime in my physical reality. Here our minds are free to be and sometimes I just sit in the corner and watch, learning, finding out about people and what makes them tick. In a way the whirlwind is an analogy for this site, and sometimes I like to just sit in the centre in the still and feel the burst of creation all around me. This site lets me know that we ALL have such an incredible potential.

I don't believe that there are 'enlightened one' that those people are in some way unique, attuned and supernatural, alien even. But I don't know that they don't exist either. There may very well be a big guy with a white beard or our universe could be on the tip of a giants fingertip or perhaps the multiverse or genetic meddling by aliens. No one really those, there are as many options as there are ideas. We should just be looking for the great ones.

You say you have three truths, tell us them then? Those three truths, whatever they may be, belong to us all. We can handle it. If all life is equal there are no qualifications upon that. You seem to believe that your 'Enlightened ones' are more equal, just like Orwell's pigs. Not in my eyes they are not and you have demonstrated nothing to prove to me to the contrary. You are no different to me, and neither are they, but I respect your right to believe that they are, and I can't prove that you are wrong either and that is why I am not doing that. I was wrong to do that. But to me, true enlightenment is the desire to share and to help others to be the best that they want to be.

I don't want my son to believe what he is told. I want him to live his life, I want his dreams to be a reality. That is what I want and what I am trying to acheive, but I have no control over that. I can try to prevent him from making mistakes, of getting hurt and of hurting others, but ultimately I have to let him be. His life does not belong to me. The only life that belongs to me is my own, but that in no way prevents me from ensuring that my life has a positive impact on others. However small that impact is.

All I am saying is that your version of the truth is just that a version. The 'possible' truths are infinite, I don't worry too much about the probable (ca cera, cera). If you have proof, or three truths or whatever, then let us have it, otherwise just be yourself. I am giving you my opinion and you are as free as a bird to disagree with it, I welcome it, I can learn from that. But as you, not as an Illuminon, as an Illuminon you bring nothing to the table. But as you you add to this society.

Hate is ordinary, learning to let it go is extraordinary. Never mistake my passion for dislike, or my disagreement for disregard. I am here aren't I? I could be anywhere but I am talking to you and you to me. Tell me you don't think that is a beautiful thing.

I love life, but yes there are times when I desperately search for a reason why children are suffering and not even permitted to be children. Damaged children make damaging adults and they damage more children and so on and so forth. Brutalisation, brutalises not just the body but the mind. That is why I oppose violence, the older I get the lower my tolerance becomes. Horror films that I watched as youth now turn my stomach (I think it comes from actually being covered in blood following the birth of my son and it is really uncomfortable as well you know, it dries very quickly, contracting). That is me though, I try not to impose my view as the right view, but I do express it and it is my own.

I don't want you and your people to die. If all that you say is true I want you to let us help you. If all we can do is listen and try to understand then that is what we will do. There can be no solution until all the cards are on the table, for any of us. Let the three truths go and we can deal with them together, come what may. Trust me. I have nothing to hide, you are totally right, I am an absolutist, I know absolutely anything is possible.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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Hi Maban. Been following this post for the past 2 days. ( just came upon it late the other night) By far the most interesting and in depth thread I have read in my year on ATS.
2 questions :

1.) Does it worry you that the NIA might be further along with programs that deal with people being able to read thoughts and ideas of another human. Does it worry you that they might have people that could find out the " 3 truths" and expose them before they are ready to be revealed?

2.) Have you read Robert Morning SKy's - Terra Papers ? Those are the 2nd most facinating thing I have read besides this thread. To me, it explains in the most logical way possible the truth and real history to humanity, other life outside and inside our solar system . To me it is the equivilent of piecing together the big picture so that some things that were vague start to make so much more sense as to the reasons why .
IT is like that of mixing the scientific how and the spiritual why.

Mr. Morningsky is native American if you haven't already figured that out from his name, and not to generalize or stereotype a people but it is known that Native Americans are very spiritual people.

I was just wondering if his story has many truths to it.
You mentioned eralier about the creator of star strek and his planned ways of creating adn releasing material. Much of the terra papers from what i have told mirror beleifs like those of star trek and manny of star wars.

This again sparked my brain because you mentioned how Shards have a part in the film industry releasing info in small portions.
Am I on the right track in piecing all of this info together??



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

Originally posted by cornixman
I just find it fascinating that KilgoreTrout has completely lost interest in talking to Maban in the space of just over a day with nothing (at least to me) to indicate why this is the case.


It is probably due to my successful debunking of the basis of this entire charade; as well as Maban's lame answer afterwards.


[edit on 24-6-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]


A bit arrogant are we? OF what maban explains, an illuminon would never think like this and therefore humans who are supposed to acheive enlightenment and where we are as a people we should not think like this. You are thinking in absolutes....and remember ..there are none.. The way you portray that, you seem to think you have found the truth...I feel you are only somewhat correct. Yes you found a fact.
Don't you see....this is what maban is explaining to us. When you find an answer it is not over....you just find another question based off that answer.. And that is how we grow as humans both logically and spiritually...
I would assume somebody like you following this thread for so long would have learned that by now.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
we grow as humans both logically and spiritually...


I was going to shut up, but you addressed me personally so I'll respond.

Humans can only grow logically or otherwise only if we are told the truth and not lied to. If you don't start with that basic requirement then everything that follows from it is corrupt and ugly and cancerous.

There really is nothing else to say. No "growth" can be had from liars. Sorry.

Philosophize all you like, but I'm satisfied that this thread does not even deserve my contempt.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Maban has not lied to us though. He has just withheld information. It is different.
Can you not tell that we as humans are not as a whole ready for this information. I know I am for the most part and maybe you are too and i sense your frustration. I would love to know all the secrets of the universe and earth and humanity. however.......
There are so many narrow minded, selfish , greedy, racist , iggnorant individuals right now on earth that they would abuse or not even understand the truths that are told to them.
The secrets and knowlege are not withheld from people like me and possibly you....but from people who just aren't ready for it .
It frustrates me too. But if balance is the key to everything then we need to wait until releasing this information balances humanity.

IT wasn't a personal attack on you , I hope you understand that, but you seem to act as if you know everything or that you know this is fake or somthing.
Can you prove maban is lying? or that the shards don't exist. For everytime you attack him in this thread and his ideas he just calmly and collectively gives his response. He has not once attacked anyone or pushed his views. You seem smart and knowlegeable. But that is one thing we as humans need to overcome. We always think we know everything or that what we know is absolute.
TO me you seem as the type who needs 100% physical evidence and proof.. That would relate to science and the How of the universe. You need to focus on the spiritual and WHy. mix them together and get your balance.

This is exactly why humans have not become enlightened. We are so set and stuck in our existing ways that we piss on the thought of an alternative truth or theory.
At one point in time All that you and us know to be truth was considered heirsay and lies.......
The light and truth will expose it'self once the eclipse of darkness has passed. Looking at the state of the world as I see it now, we are far from that.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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Maban;

Do you know what happens to us when we die? Do we start over on earth again if we are not raedy to move upwards in life? Do we start life on another earth in another parralel universe, or some other planet as a different humanoid life form in our universe?

Is the humanoid form of life the best form for our dimension of life and if so , does that explain why all extraterrestials appear to have a humanoid form?

IF these are ment to be U2U'd then I appologize, but I've never sent a private message to anyone on here before. If need be, you could send me your thoughts on this that way.

Also, It would be awesome if you stayed around here for a while. I always have tons of crazy thoughts and questions running through my . that you may be able to answer.
Enjoying this thread so much. Knowledge is addicting !



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
Can you not tell that we as humans are not as a whole ready for this information.


How do we know until we hear it though? Who is anyone to say that something, that can affect us all, should be withheld? Are you a child? Or do you just like being treated as one?

The mysteries of the universe are one thing, and I'm quite happy to let the physicists and mathematicians and the theologians work those ones out. But if there are secrets, such as the three truths that Maban refers to and that could influence humanity I think we will never be ready and that some things are better out than in. It seems to me, that whatever threat Maban is implying is caused more by the keeping of that secret than by the secret itself.

What you perhaps should note is that, Maban's people are willing to kill and be killed because of that secret...can you really think of any secret that is more valuable than life? He also believes that we should sacrifice some of our freedoms to protect those secrets, that are too important for him to share with little ol'us... This is my real problem. I am quite happy to support a cause but only when I know exactly what it is I'm supporting.

I don't even think that Maban knows what those secrets are. So why should we think that he knows anything else at all?



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


I think we are beginning to see eye to eye.

Forgive any brashness in my previous post. I think I became overzealous whenst I took your statements as a mocking of the dead. Now I see your intended statement, and I apologize.

- Maban



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