Chemtrail upscale??? 3700 flights cancelled for "inspection issues"??, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:19 AM by Directive51
chemtrail/contrail questions, certainly the most interesting of recent conspiracy theories as we can all look up and wonder.

some recent facts I've uncovered which seemingly have potential to discredit the ww2 contrail photos.

1 we have been manipulating the weather in sinister fashion confirmed as early as the 1950's, so who's to say the idea of releasing chemical's from aircraft wasnt thought of even earlier? (hitler?)

"Rain-making link to killer floods -bbc Thursday, 30 August, 2001

"Ninety million tonnes of water swept down the narrow valley into Lynmouth on 15 August, 1952, destroying whole buildings. Now, a BBC investigation has confirmed that secret experiments were causing heavy rainfall."

2. it's pretty undisputed that contrails cant form below 25,000ft (so when your looking at that fat puffy cloud forming what seems to be right over your house it makes you wonder)

3. your standard contrail forms at wingspan length from behind the engine as it takes time for the ice to flash freeze (so when you see the videos of contrails seemingly spewing directly from the surface of the aircraft and stop starting at same altitudes it makes you wonder)

and I've pondered the "why not do it at night" question myself too, but who's to say their not up there at night as well and we just dont see them? I mean if contrails are normal, then the night time flights should produce them as well, so technically it can be said that in fact there are night time con/chemtrails as well.

and another question you would have to ask is, who would be able to sleep at night knowing they were just out all day spraying who knows what over everyones head? it would be hard to employ such a work force no? someone would have to break down and blow the whistle at some point no? I mean it's potentially genocide on a global scale depending on whats being pumped out.

so riddle me this, if your dick cheney/rockafeller or basically any of our masters who are hell bent on getting the population down to 500 mil or so, what would you do? I would tell the pilots global warming will kill us all if you dont go out and block the sun out with some harmless (wink) chemicals and add in some nasty # while you werent looking. I mean, it is one hell of a great delivery system if you ask me.


at the end of the day you have to realize they people in power do in fact want us dead, so any option is on the table if you ask me. anythings possible, just keep asking questions.

[edit on 13-4-2008 by Directive51]


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 11:35 AM by defcon5
Originally posted by Directive51 we have been manipulating the weather in sinister fashion confirmed as early as the 1950's, so who's to say the idea of releasing chemical's from aircraft wasnt thought of even earlier?

If you mean cloud seeding, that looks nothing at all like what supposed chemtrails look like. Also the whole chemtrail hoax is based on the fact that there was no such thing as persistent contrails before the 1990’s. Additionally, there was no room in the aircraft I posted above for spay equipment.

Originally posted by Directive51 It's pretty undisputed that contrails cant form below 25,000ft (so when your looking at that fat puffy cloud forming what seems to be right over your house it makes you wonder)

Contrails can persist at any level that normal clouds can form and persist. They can do so on the ground under the right conditions, or maybe you have never heard of fog.

Originally posted by Directive51 your standard contrail forms at wingspan length from behind the engine as it takes time for the ice to flash freeze (so when you see the videos of contrails seemingly spewing directly from the surface of the aircraft and stop starting at same altitudes it makes you wonder)

Contrails can be dispersed in the wake turbulance of the aircraft and appear to come from the whole wingspan. Also condensation can come from wing surfaces, where it forms outside the fuel tanks.

Contrails that start and stop are due to a local change in the air conditions, such as from a thermal updraft:


[edit on 4/13/2008 by defcon5]


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 12:20 PM by StellarX
Originally posted by defcon5
Pre-1980’s persistent contrails:
Persistent contrails visible from B-52, X-15, and chase planes during the 1950’s-1960’s. Watch at 00:34, 02:32-02:53, 03:06-03:20, and very good shot of B-52 at 05:10-05:15:


And isn't contrails lasting 'many minutes' what we should expect to see on the few days that atmospheric conditions allows? What is so special about a few pictures of B-29's with contrails stretching out a few tens of miles behind them?

The X-1 breaking the sound barrier and leaving a persistent contrail at 02:50-03:04. Herbert Hoover NACA pilot in X1 at 03:38-03:39. The stiletto at 07:12-07:19:


If by persistent you mean 'a few minutes' then no one is arguing but if you want to suggest that they should naturally last for hours or days you are at least disagreeing with whichever 'experts' made the following remarks:

One unique type of cloud is manmade. Contrails occur when exhaust from jet engines condenses. A narrow line of moisture makes up the contrail. Winds eventually dissipate it; in some instances conditions permit the contrail to survive for many minutes (their straight lines do distort). Contrails are believed to affect weather by raising both short and long-term temperatures (one estimate is for about a third of a degree per decade). Here is a MODIS image taken over the southeast U.S. on January 29, 2004 showing a large number of contrails (at times more than 2000 planes are over the North American continent at any one time):

rst.gsfc.nasa.gov...


The condensation trails (contrails) that form in the wake of high-flying jets are another interesting example. These cylindrical clouds have variable lifetimes and water concentrations depending on environmental conditions. In some cases the contrails can persist for many minutes. But they do slowly diffuse, much like the smoke plume emitted by an acrobatic aircraft

www.sciam.com...


And does the following not indicate that we find supposed 'contrails' where our best knowledge indicates they should not be forming naturally?


Like natural cirrus clouds, contrails can impact
climate through their radiative effects. Persistent
contrails often form in air with relative humidities with
respect to ice (RHI) exceeding 100% but with relative
humidities with respect to water (RH) less than 100%.
Cirrus cloud formation generally requires RH > 100%.
Thus, contrails can form clouds in conditions that would
not support the formation of most natural cirrus. Cirrus
coverage over the USA grew by 0.010/decade between
1971 and 1996, while declining over other land areas
with minimal air traffic 0.017/decade.

The values of RHI at 225 hPa (~12 km) plotted in
Fig. 4 show one supersaturated area over central OH
and Indiana at 1200 UTC and no areas at 1600 UTC.
Over PA, RHI ranges from 90% at the OH border to
50% at the eastern PA border. Over Pittsburgh (PIT)
underneath contrail A at 1200 UTC, the RUC RHI is
80%, while near Aberdeen, MD (ABD), close to C at
1200 UTC, RHI = 55%. A similar value is found over
Dulles, VA (IAD) near contrail D, while RHI = 80% over
Blacksburg, VA (BLK) near the end of E. These values
are too low for sustaining contrails. To determine if
these values are due to the model assimilation process,
the rawinsonde RHI profiles are compared with the
corresponding RUC values at 1200 UTC. in Fig. 5. The
RUC increased RHI at most levels over BLK and PIT
while smoothing or decreasing RHI over ABD and IAD.
No contrails were observed for RHI < 55%.
None of the soundings show RHI > 72%, despite
the fact that the PIT rawinsonde must have passed
through contrail A on its way to the stratosphere. To
support a persistent contrail, the maximum PIT RHI from
the sonde would need to be increased by 35% or more.
Another sounding taken over western OH yielded RHI =
117% at 225 hPa. Natural cirrus clouds were passing
over the Wilmington, OH station at the time. Because it
is theorized that natural cirrus clouds can only form
adiabatically for RHI exceeding 145% or more (Sassen
and Dodd 1989), the dry bias appears to be consistent
in both clear and cloudy skies. To account for the dry
bias, a correction formula was developed by assuming
that most of contrails observed by Sassen (1997; his
Fig. 5b) should have occurred only in supersaturated
conditions. To include most of his contrail observations
above a new line representing RHI = 100%, it is
necessary to specify that RHI = 100% for the sonde
value of RH = 16% at -70°C and RHI = 100% at RH =
72% and -36°C.

www-pm.larc.nasa.gov...


And then in the best scientific tradition they make up new formula's , presuming natural atmospheric processes, to explain observation. I suppose in this way we can make almost anything seem 'natural' presuming no one bothers to ask why 'nature' keeps changing in apparent unnatural ways.

Stellar

[edit on 13-4-2008 by StellarX]


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 12:38 PM by defcon5
Originally posted by StellarX
And isn't contrails lasting 'many minutes' what we should expect to see on the few days that atmospheric conditions allows? What is so special about a few pictures of B-29's with contrails stretching out a few tens of miles behind them?

No they are subject to the same effects that all contrails are subject to. If the conditions are correct, they persist as long as a cloud can. From a WW2 B-17 pilot:

"Six of our wing men went home when they became separated from us. We left England on our own and headed across France for Strassbourg. The contrails were dense, persistent - really hard to even see our own squadron. Our Air Leader really got worried about us being by ourselves. Jack and I had to argue like the devil before he saw the light on the bomb run"

Pilot 487th Bomber group


Originally posted by StellarX
If by persistent you mean 'a few minutes' then no one is arguing but if you want to suggest that they should naturally last for hours or days you are at least disagreeing with whichever 'experts' made the following remarks:

Hows about this for their persistence?

Contrails were so thick that they became clouds. We often said that we created weather over Europe. They would persist for many hours, maybe days. We flew a different route coming back than going in partly to avoid the contrail clouds that we created.
Willard Reese- 457th Bomb Group


There are lots more quotes from WW2 bomber pilots stating that those contrails were persistent.

Now Stellar, maybe you can answer the one question I have asked you in several of these thread which you have constantly ignored:

Do you honestly think that the US military is operating aircraft over South Africa, and all the other nations that people claim to see contrails?


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 02:23 PM by tgambill
You have your head, "rightly" in the clouds. In other words, I agree with you and even though I've been following the Illuminati/New Age Movement and the NSSM 200 et al, it never crossed my mind until you mentioned this. It is expected soon, this month that significant events just may be planned. The Pope in NY, at the UN this Passover weekend, and the possibility of a false flag operation to set up martial law, or a series of events, CIA orchestrated Crime wave, assassination of Obama, dollar crash making way for the Amero and National ID card [Real ID Act], and in 2010 the formation of the North American Union. Now, if Bush does leave office, IF he does [don't forget that if martial law is declared, he can suspend elections], then we can ask are they setting up Obama. 1-2 years ago he was compared to "Lincoln" by commentary. Then, later, Obama compared himself to Reagan. Earlier this year, Caroline Kennedy compared him to JFK? Her dad. what???? Now what do the three have in common? Was that a message to the Illuminati that the operation was still on? Finally he was compared to FDR several weeks ago concerning his speaking ability. Now, FDR was according to true history a very very despotic president behind closed doors. I've researched the truth behind his presidency.......evil to the core, just like Clinton and the two Bush's. They put him in Yalta and made sure he didn't make any death bed confessions, long story. We were inches away from a dictatorship with his presidency that didn't happen by the grace of God. The true story would shock you. All true what I've written. Now, it is expected a false flag of some kind to hit us in some way, [Biological, a small nuke, attack of a ship in the gulf, dollar crash, an assassination of someone famous, who knows: but only the Bilderbergers............This chemtrail issue is very interesting at about this time....don't forget the Spainish Flu at the turn of the century, leaving 25 million dead.



reply to post by Zeus187



reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 08:58 PM by vehemes terra eternus
reply to post by tgambill


Hey gambill, could you please direct me to some good info on FDR? sounds interesting.

I agree with you, the inbred elite are plotting something sinister, and I would guess mass extermination. These vermin have Nazi ties and I'm sure they have learned from Hitler's mistakes. Brute force is not the way. Their pet project HIV didn't work as well as they were hoping I'm sure. They have had over 50 years and incredible technological advances since then. Whatever they have in the pipeline is going to do some serious damage and I can't see anyway out of this one. I find myself now wondering about their time frame. Will 2012 have any significance? It seems like they might need more than 4 years, but who knows?

Good thread Zeus, mixed it up nicely, peace.


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 09:12 PM by weedwhacker
reply to post by Beefcake


Beef, you don't know anything!

Firstly, you attacked another ATS member's credibility, that's bad enough, then you announce that 3700 airplanes were grounded!!!!

Your incredible lack of knowledge is only as large as your arrogance to think you know something that tens of thousands of hard-working airline employees don't know?

Really, junk on the 'Interweb' is just that, mostly junk. Do some independent study and stop listening to morons on the Web.

WW


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 09:53 PM by Gerizo
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Beefcake


Beef, you don't know anything!

Firstly, you attacked another ATS member's credibility, that's bad enough, then you announce that 3700 airplanes were grounded!!!!

Your incredible lack of knowledge is only as large as your arrogance to think you know something that tens of thousands of hard-working airline employees don't know?

Really, junk on the 'Interweb' is just that, mostly junk. Do some independent study and stop listening to morons on the Web.

WW


Hey Weedwhacker why do you always attack anyone who speaks out about chemtrails? You seem to always make your opinion heard,this is like the third chemtrail thread that Ive seen you comment on. Your entitled to your opinion but lighten up. I happen to believe what I see with my own to eyes and I noticed that the planes where spraying chemicals in the sky and I also have many pictures to prove this. I even called the EPA myself and the representative on the phone told me that they were indeed "chemtrails" and not contrails. Amazed at what I had just heard I asked what was being sprayed but he did not know. He gave me another number to call but I decided not to pursue any further.
In response to the actual topic of this discussion while I have a lot of questions regarding what is going on in our skies lately, I don't think all of the planes that were grounded were fitted with any kind of "chemtrail" sprayers.


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:06 PM by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Gerizo



Your entitled to your opinion but lighten up. I happen to believe what I see with my own to eyes and I noticed that the planes where spraying chemicals in the sky and I also have many pictures to prove this. I even called the EPA myself and the representative on the phone told me that they were indeed "chemtrails" and not contrails.


Please, do provide us with your evidence that what you see when you look up in the skies is in fact - CHEMICALS being sprayed upon you.

Seriously, I want to see your evidence. Not pictures = they tell NOTHING = but your scientific evidence that you personally have.

I mean, go ahead and show a picture. But I want you to show your picture of a CHEMTRAIL right next to a picture of a CONTRAIL. Then proceed to tell me exactly what the difference is in the picture.

THANKS

Oh, and I dont believe you when you said the EPA told you that jets/planes are spraying chemicals upon us all. Sorry, not buying it. In fact, I might just call them myself tomorrow. Please provide me with the number you called!

THANKS


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:12 PM by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Gerizo
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Beefcake

Your entitled to your opinion but lighten up. I happen to believe what I see with my own to eyes and I noticed that the planes where spraying chemicals in the sky and I also have many pictures to prove this. I even called the EPA myself and the representative on the phone told me that they were indeed "chemtrails" and not contrails.


I think you're lying

If I called the EPA here in Australia, they lwould augh at me and probably say, "you should know better being a meteorologist."

Pictures do not prove a thing, in fact nothing has proven yet that chemtrails exist. There is not one member here that is pro-chemtrail that has yet demonstrated knowledge in thermodynamics, upper air observations, physics or atmospheric phenomenen

If you can prove to me that you have these qualities, go ahead

[edit on 13/4/2008 by OzWeatherman]



reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:21 PM by weedwhacker
reply to post by Gerizo


Gerizo, your post is a very simple example of how nonsense get 'legs' on the internet (I jokingly call it the "interweb")

You, some anonymous, mostly well-meaning dude or dudette, make a claim, such as 'I called the EPA and they said XYZ'

This is hearsay, and not admissible in this court of opinion! (Got that from Judge Judy)

BUT, the damage is done, because someone else repeats what you said, an unsubstantiated 'call' to the EPA, and after a few more times, it turns into a 'fact' on the internet.

Ever played the game 'truth'? A child's game, where a phrase is whispered into the first child's ear, and they in turn whisper around the circle...if you have enough kids, say about ten or fifteen, the final result is not all close to the original. That's what the internet has started to become, a game of 'truth'

Reason I'm on various threads that discuss 'chemtrails'?? Because there are various threads that discuss 'chemtrails'!!

See, also, when there is cow excrement being spread, someone should come along and explain the details of the excrement. Several of us try, but seems the shovels just aren't big enough sometimes....

WW


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:39 PM by Creo Coactum
Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Zeus187
Ouch flame grilled. So what is your opinion on this subject? Why so quick to dismiss?


Well weedwhaker is a pilot and I am a meteorologist. So thats two expert fields that work with or in upper air.

I notice you're new so this is a thread for why the chemtrail thing is unplausible

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You dont have to reply to it but this is the other side of the fence


OZ, you could have just stated that as your first reply instead of completely dismissing it. Hmmm, Are you a disinformation agent without even knowing it?

I think this post of yours was more understandable than the previous one. IMO.


reply posted on 13-4-2008 @ 10:55 PM by Pilot
reply to post by Zeus187


That's what they do as soon as the word "chemtrail" appears on ATS, and presumably anywhere else on the internet...they pounce and put a halt to any discussion by ridicule and puffed up credetials Im a this Im a that blah blah. Use your ignore button.

They make the case for disinfo agents everytime they do it, I advised the 3 wise men of gotham (I know you are female leo so don't get the panties in a twist) to be more discreet when ganging up on chemtrail op's, but, alas, they lack the finesse. If ya wanna talk chemtrails, ignore 'em and post all the wild claims you wish. Getting bogged down with agents is a bore.
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