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Sun worship or Son worship?

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posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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The House of the Prince[1] keepeth festival, and the sound of those who rejoice is in the (12) mighty dwelling. The gods are glad [when] they see Ra in his rising; his beams flood the world with light. (13) The majesty of the god, who is to be feared, setteth forth and cometh unto the land of Manu; he maketh bright the earth at his birth each day; he cometh unto the place where he was yesterday. (14) O mayest thou be at peace with me; may I behold thy beauties; may I advance upon the earth; may I smite the Ass; may I crush (15) the evil one; may I destroy Apep[2] in his hour[3]; may I see the abtu[4] fish at the time of his creation, and the ant fish in his creation, and the (16) ant[4] boat in its lake. May I see Horus in charge of the rudder, with Thothand Maat beside him; may I grasp the bows of the (17) seket[1]boat, and the stern of the atet boat. May he grant unto the ka of Osiris Ani to behold the disk of the Sun and to see the Moon-god without ceasing, every day; and may my soul (18) come forth and walk hither and thither and whithersoever it pleaseth. May my name be proclaimed when it is found upon the board of the table of (22) offerings; may offerings be made unto me in my (24) presence, even as they are made unto the followers of Horus; may there be prepared for me a seat in the boat of the Sun on the day of the going forth of the (26) god; and may I be received into the presence of Osiris in the land (28) of triumph!


You know....that dosent sound all to different from the bible to me...




[HYMN TO OSIRIS.] "Glory be to Osiris Un-nefer, the great god within Abydos, king of eternity, lord of the everlasting, who passeth through millions of years in his existence. Eldest son of the womb (2) of Nut, engendered by Seb the Erpat,[1] lord of the crowns of the North and South, lord of the lofty white crown. As Prince of gods and of men (3) he hath received the crook and the flail and the dignity of his divine fathers.[2] Let thy heart which is in the mountain of Amenta be content, for thy son Horus is stablished upon thy throne. (4) Thou art crowned lord of Tattu[1] and ruler in Abtu.[2] Through thee the world waxeth green (5) in triumph before the might of Neb-er-tcher.[3] He leadeth in his train that which is and that which is not yet, in his name (6) Ta-her-seta-nef;[4] he toweth along the earth in triumph in his name Seker.[6] He is (7) exceeding mighty and most terrible in his name Osiris. He endureth for ever and for ever in his name Un-nefer.[6] (8) Homage to thee, King of kings, Lord of lords, Prince of princes, who from the womb of Nut hast possessed the world (9) and hast ruled all lands and Akert.[7] Thy body is of gold, thy head is of azure, and emerald light encircleth thee. O An[8] of millions of years, (10) all-pervading with thy body and


Not by any means the same, but it does sound like it has a touch of scripture to it....or should i say, scripture has a touch of it.




posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by KanehBosm
 


The thing is, the sites that support the sun worship claim don't back it up either with solid evidence. In fact, when you truly "look it up" as far back as you can go (like the religious sources of the figures in question), the exact opposite of the original post will be proved. When you are faced with anecdotal evidence there is no way to either verify or disprove because it's stretched to make a fit. Just my two cents.


Well...you cant really go around talking about religion and concrete proof.....religion is based of a completely factless ideal, Faith. Now...theres plenty of evidence out there to support the fact that christianity has been twisted and malformed into a tool for mass control and profits. As much as i hate to say it, its true. Does that mean its a false religion, well i hope not.But im about positive all you bible thumpers need to put down that nice gold leafed bible you probably paid $40-80 dollars for, and pick up a copy of the gnostic gospels, or a direct translation of the original bible, OH WAIT!!! You cant....cause its been retranslated and re-edited some 50 times now.....not to mention the first person to do it was a roman leader....but im pretty sure he just copied it word for word....cause i mean, its not like the were trying to get control of there religious problems or anything....

[edit on 31-1-2008 by SilentBob86]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by ravenflt
Do you see any parallel with the sun laying down at it's lowest degree on the horizon for 3 days around late December then start rising again back up into the heavens that pagans viewed as celebration time with anything to do with the new testament and the jesus story or Christmas? Maybe you don't, i don't know. But think about it, it should strike you suddenly if you remember the new testament.


Thanks for your reply. But Jesus was supposed to be at His "lowest degree" (to use your terminology) while He was dead. This happened in the Spring- at neither the summer or winter solstice. And again, no Christian really believes Jesus was born around the winter solstice. And I do remember the New Testament. By the census records and sheep herding that coincided with His birth, we can know almost for sure it was not in December.The December 25th date was decided centuries after His life under Constantine. Neither His birth or death have anything to do with the solstices.


According to both jewish and roman historians, there was no such person called Jesus ever crucified. The closest match was a guy called Yeshua. Infact, you won't find 2 sources outside the bible to any man named Jesus or Yeshua doing great things around Israel at all in history from that time. He only pops up in the bible new testament story.


*slams head against a brick wall*
First of all, yes there are. See my comment above to the same allegation with links included to historical sources. Second, Yeshua/Yehoshua/etc. is simply Jesus' Hebrew and Arabic translated name. "Jesus" is only the modern Greek Angelical version.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I wouldn't expect a "Bible Snip Extraordinaire" to find the theories and facts of Jordan Maxwell to be relevent or usefull. I feel I have a close relationship with God. However, topics like the ones in Mr Maxwell's videos explains how Christianity has been manipulated throughout history by those in power to control us.
But, really, to each his own; apples & oranges.
I feel we're all headed to the same destination, but we each travel a different path.

Mod edit

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.




[edit on 1/2/2008 by Sauron]



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:04 AM
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I have a dvd when I find it, somewhere in storage, I will attempt to upload it to ats for all to watch. I think it's called The Origins of Religion (suppressed virgin) (sorry I could'nt resist that one. It's a lecture and it's quiet interesting give me a few days I think you will all enjoy it.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by KanehBosm
 


You said: "When ask at the last supper about the return of man, and the "new age" the SON of God says, when you see a man holding a picture of water enter into his house,... the "house" of the ZODIAC that w are about to enter is AQUARIUS, his sign is a man holding a picture of water...... "

Jesus was never asked at the Last Supper about the return of man. He discussed the return of himself and the end of the age in the Olivet Discourse, which happened prior to the last supper.

In Luke's account only do we find mention of a man holding a picture of water.

Luke 22:7-12

"7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover."

"9"Where do you want us to prepare for it?" they asked.

"10He replied, "As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11and say to the owner of the house, 'The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 12He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there."

I guess I see the Aquarius connection if I strain my brain really hard.Lol But come on now - if you can't distinguish from what happened on the Mount of Olives to what happened in the upper chamber you are not going to get real far around here.

Next...



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by KanehBosm[/]



The SUN sent from GOD, or the SON sent from GOD....

SUN WORSHIPING!!!

GOOGLE "pharmacratic 2007" translator of the Dead Sea scrolls has some things to say about this "water to wine" and "son of god" thing we hear about.


The Son of God said there would be many false prophets, many false 'christs', many deceived people deceiving. Sure there are people that worship the sun/creation and don't even acknowledge The Creator. This is nothing new under the sun, as Solomon would say-and no pun intended


Anyway what is the point of your topic? It's all jumbled. Do you want to know the difference between the Son and the sun? Do you want to know what water and wine signify? Do you want to know about christmas? Aquarius? Zodiac? Constellations?? Would you like to know the truth in "The LORD'S Supper? If your looking for fault in Christianity I believe you'll find much, in fact it could become an endless circle of search for you.
If you want truth, seek Him and those that guard the truth, not those who set out to destroy it.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by johnnyrobbo
 


apparently I remember a piece in it that states "this myth of jesus christ has served us well" and then follows it up with where u can find the record of this statement , be patient and I will



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by corusso
 


Oh, I know Hon! Not bashing you. I wouldn't have even replied if my name hadn't been specifically mentioned by another poster.


reply to post by SilentBob86
 



Well...you cant really go around talking about religion and concrete proof.....religion is based of a completely factless ideal, Faith


Although I disagree that it is completely unfactual, I do agree with you that it takes faith. But if one makes a thread offering a claim, it would be nice to see some solid evidence provided in the thread.


The House of the Prince...


Moon gods, sun gods, and a pantheon of gods. Not much to do with Christianity. We could say the "rising and setting of Ra [the sun]" is his daily death and rebirth if we want. Then some stuff about boats, ants, fish, and a creation. Nothing really makes me flinch. Unlike the Christian God who claims to have created all, we see the Egyptian gods being both the created and the creator. Jesus died and resurrected once not every day, etc.


HYMN TO OSIRIS...


This might help. Just scroll passed all the "December 25th" accusations and such that have already been discussed. HERE and HERE. Hope that helps somewhat.

reply to post by johnnyrobbo
 



apparently I remember a piece in it that states "this myth of jesus christ has served us well" and then follows it up with where u can find the record of this statement , be patient and I will


I think you are looking for THIS. Pope Leo X supposedly said it but the source is shown to be a fictional work satirizing the papacy.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


I don't think so it is supposed to be in written form I'll start looking tomorrow. I have a terrible memory so I will say no more till I do the deed



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by johnnyrobbo
 


Ok, I'll hold out.
But is that at least the correct quote you are thinking about?



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


It's been a while since I watched it but I feel pretty close to it.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by SilentBob86

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by KanehBosm
 




......But im about positive all you bible thumpers need to put down that nice gold leafed bible you probably paid $40-80 dollars for, and pick up a copy of the gnostic gospels, or a direct translation of the original bible, OH WAIT!!! You cant....cause its been retranslated and re-edited some 50 times now.....not to mention the first person to do it was a roman leader....but im pretty sure he just copied it word for word....cause i mean, its not like the were trying to get control of there religious problems or anything....

[edit on 31-1-2008 by SilentBob86]



The Gnostic Gospels?
BTDT

You may...or may not, be interested in checking out the different sites offering the Bible rendered in Aramaic-- the language of the Gallilean, Jesus Christ. A Dr. Lhamsa comes to mind here as being one of several translators of ancient Aramaic "documents" into english. Also, Vic Alexander has a very good website with english translations.

Gee, my very first post. I hope I don't get crucified!


[edit on 1-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

Mod Edit -quote tags

[edit on 1/2/2008 by Sauron]



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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reply to post by corusso
 





I wouldn't expect a "Bible Snip Extraordinaire" to find the theories and facts of Jordan Maxwell to be relevent or usefull. I feel I have a close relationship with God. However, topics like the ones in Mr Maxwell's videos explains how Christianity has been manipulated throughout history by those in power to control us.


This "person" knows exactly the questions I have and understands my perspective,.... thanks for that! I never want to tear down ones belief, only that they understand the depths, multi dimensions to the stories, and the control methods PUT into ancient spiritual beliefs.

Jordan Maxwell is an extrodinary man, thinking for many people... I hope more get exposed to his ideas,...



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by skyshow
Your missing my point entirely, but it may not be your fault. Consider this. Without first taking Math 101, 102 and 103, you would be missing many "points" as it were if you enrolled directly in math 400 calculus theory....I'm trying to point out an example. I think there is little hope for us in reaching any sort of general understanding even of some of the most elementary parts of the discussion because we are viewing the subject material from two completely different levels. There's little doubt that you have a vast orthadoxical knowledge of scripture and dogma...you don't have to prove that anymore to anyone...however the discussion is unable to move forward without a better understanding of the "language" of research, and I'm not employed to teach it to you...I've tried here and there to help you along, but it's like there's too much water in the jello, or the yeast is bad....I wish there were some way for you to get some training, and we could meet back here in say 4 to 6 years and then talk about it...

At least the positive thing however is this material gets people to think, to communicate, and perhaps motivates them to gravitate towards reason and all the while we learn more...I'm grateful for that part of these discussions.


Very true! words... and what you have been led to believe they mean.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by bobafett1972

Originally posted by KanehBosm
I don't need any SITES to back up my FACTS about the what I said the satrs indeed do,.... just go look up!


So let me get this straight: You start a thread called Sun worship or Son worship claiming it to be fact yet your only facts are buried somewhere in you brain? That is not fact my friend, it is conjecture on your part. Usually this is how it works: Someone starts a thread about how Fraggles are in fact real and they live under your house. Here is where the OP then inserts what they consider to be proof be it pictures, videos, or other websites and books backing up said claim. Then others come by and comment with their opinions and facts and thus a civil discussion begins.



First, I asked a question, I didn't claim any facts accept those facts regarding the stars and what they do each year.... no interpretation in that,... they do what they do. What I "claim" they do in my previous post they in fact do....
I was speculating though with my question... are we really just practicing ancient sun worship under a new name? It is my belief that if one asks this question, and actually does some research into this question, that is almost likely what we are doing,... unknowingly, purposely decieved for 8000 years or more!!!!....it seems to lead to Sumeria, and what they had to say about who our creator was.... but today's christians do NOT want to hear we were created from clay and DNA manipulation to be slaves for aliens chased here (this could explain the missing link and religion doesnt want that)... they like the story of man made by clay by a loving god who will burn you forever if you dont serve him completely, our loving father,... we do have to thank him for the birth of the sun though, without it we would die.

Being Christ like and finding salvation is the purpose of man I believe this. I then ask the question, salvation from what? Eternal Damnation? Thats right... thats the human race if we don't wake up and read what the Sumerians had to say about who or what created us..... most ancient cultures have the same story.... go back farther than the hebrews and you soon find it looks like the hebrew story was once the Sumerian stroy, new names, new places, same events,.... words, definitions, and control methods inserted along the way.

Was War of the Worlds read on Radio to test us? can we handle this kind of information? I heard we went nuts (I wasn't there)... and thought it was real. Imagine the heads popping if forced to see the truth.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 03:47 AM
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If Jesus is a creation or incarnation of God, then in fact, isn't Christianity worshiping the creation and not the creator? He only incarnated once. Once is not never, though. I seriously cannot understand this. I worship the Creator, I just don't know who or what that is.

As far as the OP, from extensive research, I see the parallels.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by tacocheesey
As far as the OP, from extensive research, I see the parallels.



good!





[edit on 1-2-2008 by KanehBosm]



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by tacocheesey
I worship the Creator, I just don't know who or what that is.


that's where I am too, glad you rang in on this topic.



posted on Feb, 1 2008 @ 04:30 AM
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Zeitgeist anyone... why not give the credit to them for giving most of the info of this tread. it's like this hasen't all been said before.. jeez ;-)

just Youtube "zeitgeist"





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