LOL How ironic, in your avatar it says you are in the "land of the free" where might that be?

Originally posted by M4TX7


LOL How ironic, in your avatar it says you are in the "land of the free" where might that be?

It seems you don't understand what freedom means. It means you have the freedom to create a site like this and create your own rules.
Freedom means you have the right to leave or be banned if you cannot accept the fact that this privately owned site has a set of rules that YOU agreed to.
You have the freedom to be ignorant to what being civil means.

Jesse makes you angry? Express this in terms that the internet being read by a ten year old could accept. There are no adult filters here and anyone can read this. Your anger is a virus if written in an uncontrolled juvenile nature.

b

M4TX7,
I agree that you do have every right to be angry about whatever you want to be angry about. It's when you voice you anger in an insulting, demeaning way that ATS will have problems with. We have rules and they are enforced for the good of all posters. We need that level playing field that personal attacks can't lie flat upon. They create a bump in the path that too many people can trip over. So, help us keep it smooth.
Thanks.


Cuhail

The guy is a lier plain and simple. The UCJM prevents any of this and there are many American Muslims in the army. Any commander would have the drill instructor tossed in the brig and court Martial for laying one hand on any recruits head. Someone would have told one of the higher ups and it would have been stopped. The guy probably works for C.A.I.R.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by Sky watcher]

The military has a long and dubious history of racism and the so called "War on Terror" feeds off racism in the American population that lies just below the surface.

If one takes into account that the critical thinking ability of many, if not the majority of those who are now serving in the armed forces is poor to non-existent, bigotry in such individuals can be easily cultivated.

Just look at the atrocities commited by our men and women in uniform in Iraq. If one only considers the acts that have been made public, it seems obvious to me that Arabs and Muslims in general are considered less than human. (Abu Gharib anyone?) I am quite sure that the majority of inhumane acts committed in our name go unreported.

BTW, citing Wikipedia as a source does not bolster anyone's case. Articles are heavily edited/censored to ensure that only the preferred ideology is propagated.

I would like to interject my opinion on the subject of discrimination in the military, and particulalry during Basic.

The US military does not endorse discrimination for the most obvious reason, lawsuits. It is a waste of their resources to be tied up in court all the time.

The US military does not endorse discrimination because such a policy would be in direct opposition to operational proficiency. As others have pointed out, Muslims, along with members of other minority groups in the military, are a prized commodity to a military that values diverse operational capabilities. The military wants people who can loyally execute orders of the widest possible variety.

This does not mean that cases of discrimination do not occur. There are bigots in any organization you can name. This is simply a fact of life and the military is no exception.

If this person was singled out in Basic for being a Muslim, it is possible that it was not rooted in bigotry, but in the interest of defining this recruit as a member of the US Army. Being a Muslim was a problem, because the recruit allowed it to be a problem, not because the instructors really cared one way or the other.

In the immortalized words of Gunny Hartman, "Here you are all equally worthless!"

To the member who started this thread and claims to be Jesse MacBeth. If you are who you claim to be then you are a compulsive liar who has garnered a modicum of fame from the deceit you have perpetrated. If you are not Jesse MacBeth, then you are a liar in exactly in the same vein. Either way, the Major is not amused, nor interested in any of your contrivances, misrepresentations, or downright lies. Whatever the nature of your true persona, your position is untenable and without merit; devoid of any redeeming value or worthy of consideration. By virtue of your claimed identity you are a fraud, either by legal decree or by the identity you have assumed. Either "truth" leaves the Major disgusted.

If you are who you claim to be you may have served a meager sentence and now eagerly assume the mantle of one who has "paid his debt to society." Make no mistake, you have paid nothing. The ledger is deep in the red and the interest isn't being paid, much less the principal. The Major would suggest a strict regimen of "deed" vice "word" regarding your rehabilitation regardless of your true identity.

Dismissed.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
The UCJM prevents any of this and there are many American Muslims in the army. Any commander would have the drill instructor tossed in the brig and court Martial for laying one hand on any recruits head.

Just to keep things balanced, I'd like to point out that I served in the United States Marine Corps, and I can tell you that some drill instructors DO strike recruits (although they prefer subtler methods). They can get away with depriving you of food and sleep and they know how to justify it. They will pair the worst recruits with MCMAP partners who will jack them up.
If that doesn't do the trick, they'll come up behind you while you're marching and pick your leg up from behind the knee so fast that the first thing to hit the ground will be your shoulder blades, and their story will be that you weren't lifting your knees and you stumbled when they corrected you. I've seen it.
To be fair, though, only once did I ever see a drill instructor just haul off and deliver a closed fist to a recruit, and he had his bases covered on that one. The recruit had committed a serious offense that would have resulted in an NJP and almost certainly an administrative separation. The DI gave him a stiff shot that knocked the wind out of him and told him they can get eachother discharged or they can keep our dang mouths shut like grown men.

On the other hand, none of the abuse I saw in training, physical or otherwise, ever appeared to be based on anything other than the recruit's performance. The goal usually seemed to be to provoke recruits who were deficient yet passing into refusing to train, or in some cases sabotaging them so that they would fail critical training events such as PFTs, rifle qual, MCMAP tests, or "prac". Rarely was such abuse non-continuous and thus more likely to be punitive or corrective in nature.

I will also say that I went through boot with a Muslim recruit. He was a dang good recruit, and the treatment he recieved reflected that. As a matter of fact he was a squad leader and recieved a meritorious promotion. That doesn't mean there is no prejudice, but any prejudice which might exist is obviously not institutional.

Originally posted by Major Discrepancy
To the member who started this thread and claims to be Jesse MacBeth. If you are who you claim to be then you are a compulsive liar who has garnered a modicum of fame from the deceit you have perpetrated. If you are not Jesse MacBeth, then you are a liar in exactly in the same vein. Either way, the Major is not amused, nor interested in any of your contrivances, misrepresentations, or downright lies. Whatever the nature of your true persona, your position is untenable and without merit; devoid of any redeeming value or worthy of consideration. By virtue of your claimed identity you are a fraud, either by legal decree or by the identity you have assumed. Either "truth" leaves the Major disgusted.

If you are who you claim to be you may have served a meager sentence and now eagerly assume the mantle of one who has "paid his debt to society." Make no mistake, you have paid nothing. The ledger is deep in the red and the interest isn't being paid, much less the principal. The Major would suggest a strict regimen of "deed" vice "word" regarding your rehabilitation regardless of your true identity.

Dismissed.

Major...I believe that is the best dressing down I have ever seen administered. A veritable verbal fusillade, as it were.
A star to you.

again i come on here when i can and again i see the same hateful attacks on me. it dosent really bother just pointless. to answer some peoples questions. the reason why i just dident take this to themefdia was because i was looking for a lawyer to take the case non would take it so i got disheartened and felt none would believe so i took the stories the other veterans i was around said and a made them my own. and did what i could to get back at the military. if you read the things i have osted befor you willl see that i stated that iam not trying to get back at them. i dont hate the army anymore. i just wanted to get this off my chest. its what really happen i dident post exspecting people to believe me and honestly i dont care i just wanted to get it off my chest and i did. iam not gonna keep comming on here to read and more hate. i can just type my name in on the net and read it if that was the case. i am working on getting paperwork. iam also not in a very good finacial area in my life. so again accessing a computer and making scans of things to post on the net my be affordable to most but not to me at this point in mylife. honestly iam about to get married and i have been blessed with a beautiful women who has read everything on the net and doesent care. she tells me not to post anything to let it go and dont bother with what people say. she has seen some of the paper work that verifyies what happened to me in basic and she does not want me to post it. thinking it willl do more harm then good. after reading alot of theses replies i agree. it seems the world has already made up their minds about me. and no mater what i say or write. no one will believe are they will trash me further like i said earlier to prove i am who i say i am look me up on the b.o.p web siote my inmate reg number was 37410-086. do your own research like you all are good at. i have moved on from it the hate you all ahve a say to me doesnot bother me. i just hope that some of theses people can learn to not judge the book by its cover no matter how ugly the cover was painted. and also that everything is not how it seems to be from the outside looking in. with that i will end this. wish you all well.

salaam wualikum
jesse macbeth