My only response to you is that I do not choose to believe that these things were done to you by the basic training sgts as you claim. I also went to basic in the US army and we had many muslim soldiers and they were treated the exact same as any other minority was treated.

I can not prove that what you say didnt happen, becasue I was not there. All we have here is your word as to what happened.

We also know you have lied before, so what proof can you present which will back up your story as to what happened to you?

I understand that some of the Drill sgts do take it to extremes at times because I have seen it with my eyes. But for a sgt to do the things you claim they did, you could have gone to the AG at the base you were at and they would have intervened immediatly on your behalf. Why didnt you go to the base AG?

I dont buy your claims on this subject either.

Good Luck in life !!!

My sincere thanks for not demonizing my troops in this post.

And I will agree, the days of the just and noble war are over, if there ever was such a thing. War today is profiteering and political lubrication. We as soldiers have to make the best of the situation though, and we do get some good stuff done over there. We certainly don't enjoy killing when we have to.

Veterans should be the first calling for the war to end. They know firsthand. I'd much rather stay at home with my wife, but I gave up the right to that decision years ago. I would rather get it over with now, though, than have to go back again in the distant future.

I just ask everyone to remember that although it is the soldiers' job to execute national policy for the final 300 meters, we do not have to necessarily agree with it.

Jesse,

Even though I disagree on many levels with things you have said- I certainly understand your saying them and as an American soldier, regardless of your religious beliefs- you are entitled to say what you want. Everyone has their opinion and often (myself included) can go off on a tangent fueled by anger and rage toward the machine.

Most of us do at one point or another. That said- Most people are so self-absorbed that other peoples opinions are rarely held for long- so this crap about people influencing how and what people believe is utter crap. People will either be in agreement or they will take a position of the opposite view. There are several who will wait until they are told what to think and what to believe and are susceptible to manipulation because they do not think for themselves. You are not to blame for any influence over automatons.

I put about as much credibility in Muslim beliefs as I do in Christianity and I see discussions about who is right or wrong always ending or leading to conflict and death. Being I am a man of peace- this fact renders both beliefs invalid to what is in my heart and resides in the core of my being.

It always pains me to see the consequences that each suffer goes through to stand in the courage of their convictions. But those are the consequences we must all accept. It is the difference between a man and a mouse.

I applaud your courage- yet I do not follow your conviction.

Welcome back from the pokey!



[edit on 26-1-2008 by dk3000]

Everybody who makes a mistake..and pays for it..by going to Jail..deserves one chance..and once chance only..Plenty of elected officials..lie and we know they lied but never stand before the court to face justice.
Go forth and sin no more.

THE PRIVATE JONES STORY
non-fiction
(I'm using Jones in place of his real name)

The day i started basic training was the day the "ground war" started back in 1990.
Immediately the Drill Sgt's took us all into the bay and said "this war is for real now privates" and immediately started manhandling people and dividing the strong from the weak. The manhandling was real. Hand to hand combat training became bloody. We were being taught that once we left their, we were going be given a gun and sent straight to the front lines.

-Before I go further, I was not part of the weak and finished my training with flying colors-

Private Jones was one of the weak. Private Jones was the type that couldn't seem to get it right. Wasn't physically able but sincerely wanted with all his heart to be in the Army and to go fight what he thought were evil people on the other side of the globe. Whenever h didn't get it right though, everyone in his squad paid for it.

My Drill Sgts were all ex-war vets. All hardcore.

Private Jones was soon segregated completely from everyone else. Given the severity of the war and how it was affecting the minds of everyone, our platoon soon was divided into groups. Private Jone being outside of all these groups was soon given "special duties" during the night. These special duties included "water fountain" duty, Shower Guard duty. back stair case duty and so on.. Each time one of these duties was given to him, he befell some sort of unfortunate incident. Within a week of these special duties he was black and blue.

He tried to talk to the Chaplain. He tried to talk to the Captain. To no avail.

He was tied to a bed in a similar description as the OP while on the top bunk. He was beat with soap in socks like you saw in the movie Platoon. He had knots the size of golfballs on his face, back and everywhere else.

he tried again to speak to the Chaplain, Captain and whomever else.
The other Drill Sgts noticed. The other platoons noticed. The whole damn brigade noticed but nothing was done.

Private Jones had made a simple error one day following all of this brutality and I attributed his mistake to the physical pain he was enduring from day to day on TOP of all of the physical stress we were given anyway. After this error was made, our Vietnamese drill Sgt ,who who talk with horrible glee about putting his cig out in the female enemy "private places", chained the door to the barracks. He proceeded to "smoke" the platoon. He filled a metal garbage can with water and made us do relays up stairs holding that thin metal handle. This went on for hours - nothing but intense physical stress WAAAY beyond any normal training in so many ways.

2 hours of this passed. Then every 15 min or so, he would walk out of the room for about 3 min. When he did, Private Jones would get a punch from the person beside him. Sometimes 2 or three. The drill Sgt would come back and it would stop, but noticing what was happening while he was gone the Drill Sgt would smile. he was getting the response he wanted. We would then get smoked for 15 more minutes and he would walk out. When he did, more people would switch sides (we were lined up in 2 long rows) and the people that switched would take punches as well.

There was an intense hate directed towards Jones and it was 100% fueled by the drill Sgts, supported by other Drill Sgts acknowledged by officers and so on. in the name of "war" and the training for. Not everyone felt the same but seeing the futility of trying to stop it kept people quiet. Especially after any mention of this brought special attention to you.

It got to the point that night where Jones knew that it was about to come to a point where he was going to get severely hurt. Everyone knew it. No one protested for their own reasons. Then a knock at the chained door happened..

The Drill Sgt went to the door, took the chains off, hid them behind his back and Jones went running out. FLYING out is better said.

-Next morning-
Every morning the 4 platoons would meet at 5am and start the day off with a report. 4 platoons makes a company and after the reports the company would go train with the rest of the brigade.
That morning's went like this as called out by the Drill Sgt's reporting to the Company's commanding Captain.
"1st platoon 69 assigned , 68 present , 1 in sick bay"
"2nd platoon - 69 assigned 68 present, 1 unaccounted for"
"3rd Platoon 69 assigned, 67 present 2 sick bay"
"4th Platoon 69 assigned, 70 present, 1 being held in protective custody"

The Drill Sgt that came to the door while it was chained and knocked knew what was happening and finally had a change of heart and came to the boy's rescue.

-----------------
My point in this story is that in the OP he said some things in a way that jived with what I also saw and witnessed. I saw what it did to this person mentally and I watched a person who was a GOOD person kicked, beaten and spat on for ... well, I'm not even sure what for now.
I read all the responses on here and it about made me sick revisiting these memories and knowing full well that everyone can sit back in their chairs and say what they would or would not have done after such an incident.
---------------

I do NOT agree with what Jesse did or condone it.
I do not know whether or not to believe him at this point.
But if he did go through some of the crap that I witnessed, I understand how that can change a person and I can understand why he would try to take it out on someone without taking into account the ramifications of his actions. People become blinded by their pain. I see you as a weaker person for going through with the lies though Jesse.

So Jesse, I'm sorry if what your OP describes is true.
You have served your time for the lies though.
Don't lie any more and your life will be much better as well as the lives of the people who surround you.

If you have truly seen the error of your ways then the venom spewed by the people here who can't seem to forgive means nothing.
If you have not then I'm sure the venom is probably burning like hell.

no one knows but you.

b

Start talking civil or there will be further warnings.

Jesse, it is time to put these things behind you and go forward with your life. And don't be so worried about what people think - Like the Good Book says "Let He who is without sin cast the first stone". Do at least one good deed each day and you will be okay.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
2 questions ,

1 - if this story is true - why did you not use it as your platform for anti war activism ? IMHO it has a much greater ` punch ` than the lies { which you now admit to } about your " service "

2 - what evidence do you have for this new account ? we know you lied previously - so are automatically skeptical of you - why should we believe this story ?

My gut feeling tells me that if the account is who he is to be claiming, then most likely this page will go down in the uppermost annals of ATS history. But in all seriousness to the OP... and to Jesse himself if he is.... "Why Here!?"


This is An Open Letter To Jesse Macbeth:

Once again, IF you are who you say you are, and this story of abuse and humilitation is even somewhat true, and you have kept it silent for so long... I myself (and the rest of the crew here) are probably thinking why you didn't come out with this to the mainstream media instead of letting it become another "Rumor on the Internets" so to speak. If you think that this will spark some interest in our community to do some solid research and verify your claims then fine, however your lack of credibility is at stake here once again.... and if you are walking that thin line between truth and fiction and are feeling the need to vent your frustrations here... I (and others) ask that you provide some credible facts to back up your assertations. In all fairness, your past actions give you very little crediblity... yes, we are a people that is willing to help if your statement is true, and we will do what we can, but if this is a fabrication on your part to gain exposure, then the hammer will come down on you for it. Our community will not tolerate disinformation or propaganda, as we remain seekers of truth... hopefully you can do the same.

(end letter)

Thank you for your time, and welcome to ATS.

T.

(sorry for the double post)

stinking safari!


In all fairness, and with respect to the OP I would like to further the question...


Let's just say this story is true and proof of the allegations that are claimed is undeniable?
ATS let's your cat out of the bag.... and it is picked up.


But IF it is falsified and we followed along with it, and somehow it was picked up on MSM radar would that discredit our dilligent work here?

Either way, someone is paying attention to this guy.

There are always two sides to the same coin....

~Edited For Elaboration~

[edit on 27-1-2008 by telemetry]

Hello...Jesse,

I believe the first step on the path to righteousness is honesty.

You cannot change the past, only the future.

I do not believe a person pays their debt to society by sitting in a jail cell.

I believe those debts are repaid by going to those you have wronged to face them and ask of their forgiveness. And to do whatever is within your power to mend damages.

I do hope you can move forth in life and regain self respect and honor by spending your life doing good. Not all is lost. I believe people can acheive greater things, if they choose it.

Only *you* know what happened in boot camp. Whatever happened, I hope you find a way to make peace with it, and move on.

Peace be with you

I see there have been a few manners warnings recently.

Just to be very, very clear about the rules in this thread.

NO ATS MEMBER, whoever they may be, is to be insulted or subject to any form of personal attack.

ALL ATS MEMBERS, whoever they may be, have the right to speak freely, within the bounds of Terms and Conditions.

If you find it difficult to disagree with Macbeth's actions without being insulting, I suggest that you think back to your childhood. Would you say that your parents gave very strong corrections of your bad conduct? Probably. Would you say that your parents belittled you? Probably not (I hope).

Address the conduct, and the substance of the posts, without addressing the member.

Interesting, this guy has the right to come here and explain away why he did to this country something THAT HE WAS GUILTY OF that landed him in JAIL WHICH HE DESERVED, but I have no right to tell him what I think of him.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by M4TX7]

.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by M4TX7]

The more I think about this the more I am amazed as to what Political correctness has come to in this country.

This guy has the right to come here in an "open public forum" and explain why he commited crimes against this country and the people of this country, but I get CENSORED AND PENALIZED FOR FOR EXPRESSING MY OPINION OF THIS INDIVIDUAL.

I GET PUNISHED AND CENSORED FOR EXERCISING MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH ABOUT A MAN THAT COMMITED CRIMES AGAINST MEN WHO FIGHT FOR MY RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH.

HOWABOUT THAT!!!

I am very new here, I don't know about this place.

Originally posted by M4TX7
Interesting, this guy has the right to come here and explain away why he did to this country something THAT HE WAS GUILTY OF that landed him in JAIL WHICH HE DESERVED, but I have no right to tell him what I think of him.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by M4TX7]

I think you've got it. From the T&C, which you agreed on when registering:

2) Behavior: You will not behave in an abusive, hateful and/or racist manner, and will not harass, threaten, nor attack anyone.