Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?

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posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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Karl,
Your question pertaining to the many life preservers out there can probably be answered by continuing train of thought->those that take hold heard a specific message(thus were listening to words in the Bible or another christian). Then upon understanding simply decided this was a better choice than the other preservers in the water and took hold. In this decision many factors may be considered but remeber thousands were martyred by Rome following the death of Christ rather than deny their belief, Rome could not produce Christ's body to disprove growing Christianity, even in all his wisdom Satan was tricked and did not stop Christ's mission. Even today there are many areas where Christianity is spreading.

I think most Christians would agree that instead of remaining stationairy in the water they begin to be pulled toward safety(this is by the work of the Holy Spirit in a believers life as they grow to become more like Christ).

Some would argue that these were specifically called to or that God picked them specifically. I do think God know's who will choose to believe and who will not. This get's into a concept called predestination..we don't want to go there here.




posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Why did god create me knowing I was going to be an atheist……and then Christians tell me it’s my bloody fault…..? lol



I dont really understand why a self professed atheist would start a thread about religious ideology. Why ask questions when you dont want to believe the answers?



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


A big problem I have with the logic of Christianity, is why would god first create us in the first place and then send us to hell after we die…it’s like it purposely created us for the soul reason of going to hell…if god is all knowing…it would have known when it created me, that I was going to hell…..eventually when I die, because I’m an atheist…it doesn’t make any sense, it’s like purposely having a baby for the soul purpose of sending it to jail…..

Why did god create me knowing I was going to be an atheist……and then Christians tell me it’s my bloody fault…..? lol

“ you have sinned….you don’t believe in our heavenly father….god will punish you in hell…”



[edit on 21-1-2008 by andre18]


Why did you do this thread ? How could you ever understand that the human race was condemned to hell because of what Adam did against God. And how could you understand that the Bible says that He is not willing that "any" should perish but all come to repentence, that is, stop rejecting God. And how could you understand that God was willing to allow His Son Jesus die to be able to rescue you from hell. Indeed there is a hell, and if you don't want to end up there, reconsider your war with God.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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Why ask questions when you dont want to believe the answers?


That's so damn hypocritical......lol.....since when do Christians listen to anyone but other Christians...?

When an atheist shows evidence for evolution...Christians ignore it and use some dumb ass reply like...."faith"

Or when they won’t creation taught in schools, they don't realize anything taught has to be proven scientifically with evidence, Christians lack any hard proof or any proof at all.....any logical person can simply laugh at them.....and yet they still don't listen to reason...and simply say it’s a mater of faith…..

Or that the idea of a person going to hell just because of their sexual orientation.....an atheist will just show common sense that any god if it did exist in the fist place.....wouldn't give a (....) about such things.... Christians will completely ignore it and say something like "it says it in the bible so it must be god’s will....."

Christians give me a lot of answers to my questions……sadly….not a single one makes any bloody sense. You try and make some sense out of……”you’re just not spiritual enough to understand god’s will…” lol



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Does an ice cube in the sun deserve to melt?

The only thing the ice cube, due to it's form, can do... is melt.

It does not deserve it, natural law commands it.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
Christians give me a lot of answers to my questions……sadly….not a single one makes any bloody sense.


Then like everyone else has said, why do you keep asking? Do you remember what I said on your last thread? I told you if I do not believe in Zeus, consider Zeus a myth, and admit I think the belief in Zeus as well as his followers are stupid, then why would I continue to create threads about Zeus? It would be a waste of time for all parties involved.

Asking the same questions over and over again is not the issue. It's your attitude. "Christians are stupid. Their answers to my questions are stupid. Christianity is illogical." You get very condescending. You host a thread then ridicule those who take the time out of their day to help you by replying.

Do you understand why you have been asked several times in this thread why you keep asking in the first place? It's because THAT makes no bloody sense.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by WorldShadow

Thats what I say! Look at world problems my friend. How many atheist are torturing people in the name of atheism or is it god most high they do it for.


Atheisim has produced a body count second to none far exceeding religous wars! Lets look at only two examples. Combining the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, an estimated 250 MILLION DEAD! To be fair, wikipedia estimates a combined total of 131 MILLION DEAD. However there are recent uncovered documents that point more towards 250 MILLION DEAD.

Now to add, lets not forget China today arrests or executes people of faith, and is constantly invading it's Tibetan neighbor all in the name of "the people"


In the bible the enemy is written as those who do not believe.


Again, you are incorrect, our enemy is satan and his works.


Thank your god for atheism because it doesn't seem to really care all that much. Just so you know not to include me in your suppositions, I am not an atheist.


You may not be an atheist, but you are factually and totally WRONG!

Wow, what a great utopian society atheists would provide looking at these numbers...

[edit on 21-1-2008 by defcon365]



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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why do you keep asking?



you line up 100 people you ask them a question….say…you ask 100 Texans what the meaning of life is…? you ask each one, one after the other…..they all answer with very similar responses… “ to serve god, to live by the bible, to except god and his teachings….etc” finally……comes to the 100th person…..you ask the question……they reply….”I’m not sure…..though I do believe in god, I think my purpose in life has something to do with my own life’s fulfilment…what I can do to better myself and the people around me…” although the other 99 people would probably burn him for saying something like that…..you know how Texans can be…lol

And so…if I ask this question enough times, I might just get an answer that does make sense……you understand……



I told you if I do not believe in Zeus, consider Zeus a myth, and admit I think the belief in Zeus as well as his followers are stupid, then why would I continue to create threads about Zeus? It would be a waste of time for all parties involved.



LOL…….just because you’ve said your opinion how does that close the argument…? If I make a topic like say…..Christianity is stupid…..and I get say 50 responses…..and the case Is closed…..great…..if I then ask another question on the same subject on Christianity like…..why did Jesus die for our sins…what’s wrong with that…?and as I said before…….AshleyD you make no bloody sense…..lol


It's your attitude. "Christians are stupid. Their answers to my questions are stupid. Christianity is illogical." You get very condescending. You host a thread then ridicule those who take the time out of their day to help you by replying.



How about this……you make a reply….that doesn’t involve me thinking a 10 year old has just replied to me…..make it so logical……with so much common sense……so much proof o your faith through evidence….that is ‘scientific…” that every single atheist on the planet would be in awe…….not happening…….there was an entire thread based on the evidence for creationism……through something like a 400 replies…

www.abovetopsecret.com...

not through the entire thread did you once….offer a single shred of proof….for your claims….not one……some of your responses were…..lol


Using scientific methods only, how can divine creation be proven?


OR



“Originally posted by weedwhacker
Again, the OP asked for evidence of creationism and instead, we only hear how we must accept it as a 'belief'.”

AshleyD

Basically that is exactly what it all comes down to: belief.




How can someone debate with you when you come up with answers like that…..you tell me I keep asking the same question….yet you keep giving the same damn BS responses….



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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my bad....

[edit on 21-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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In the gospel according to Matthew Jesus says if you deny him before men he will deny you at the gates of heaven, yet Peter denied him three times and is considered a saint.


It's silly, don't worry about it just be a good person. The worst God will do is send you back to earth for a second chance.

Most Christians I know believe this also, infact pretty much everyone I've met in person. Not all Christians think the same.




[edit on 22-1-2008 by Shawn B.]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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Then why ask a question when you know you will get nothing but "BS responses?" How many times have you asked about Hell now? I don't think numbers go high enough to answer that question. It's always the same questions and the same asinine and condescending replies from you.

As to creationism, I did offer up some evidence if you look around the thread. The Bible mentions Pangaea and its separation (proven through science), genetic degeneration (proven through science), and possibly alludes to microevolution (proven through science). Evolutionary science has also proven we all have one male common ancestor and one female common ancestor. They even refer to these two as Adam and Eve. Linguistic scholars also believe we had one common language in the past.

I never drove the point home because I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone. I'm not the only one with access to Google.

[edit on 1/22/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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Then why ask a question when you know you will get nothing but "BS responses?


Did I not already answer this……? I have know I idea what kind of responses I’ll get…I’m not bloody psychic…..but, there might just be one out a hundred response that does make sense…..and it’s worth it to find those few numbers…..so far I’ve actually received some pretty good responses……logical and understandable from Christians…..or….believers in a god….

Simply put…I ask a question….I hope I’ll get some good intelligent replies… I get a few…. I’m happy


How many times have you asked about Hell now?


Again….I might ask a question on the topic of say …ok for example...what’s the point in hell? I get some good responses, then I make another thread based on the relevance of hell, but on a completely different topic….like….oh I don’t know…. do people who aren’t Christian deserve to be tortured on hell?....yes I talk about hell again……( am I not allowed to?) it is a very interesting subject…..

Lets say I ask about fish…..i make a thread asking what’s the point in fish….i then make another thread about certain chemicals in fish could save lives…..notice the fact that both threads are based on fish…..but have nothing to do with each other…..

My thread on the purpose of hell has nothing to do with this thread…..I’m asking why do people who aren’t Christian deserve to be tortured on hell….two completely different topics…

Lets leave the creationism argument in the creationism thread…..other wise we’ll get mods telling us to stay on topic or something…


As to creationism, I did offer up some evidence if you looked throughout the thread. The Bible mentions Pangaea and its separation, genetic degeneration, and possibly alludes to microevolution. Secular evolutionary science has also proven through genetic tracing that we all have one male common ancestor and one female common ancestor. They even refer to these two as Adam and Eve. But I never drove the point home because I don't give a hoot about proving anything to anyone. It's not my job.


I’ll respond to this in the creationism thread in a minute


[edit on 22-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Did I not already answer this……?


And that is exactly the point everyone is trying to make to you. Have you not already asked this and have we not already answered?

You just don't like the answers and that is what it comes down to. Ask a Christian question, get a Christian answer... according to Christianity.

And you really don't have to answer my creation statements because they were already discussed on multiple threads but whatever floats your boat.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 01:11 AM
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Look….I’m going to tell you straight……You AshleyD, give me a headache, a train could run over my head, and I’d be like…..huh…better that then AshleyD…


In the gospel according to Matthew Jesus says if you deny him before men he will deny you at the gates of heaven,


I’ll confess I’m not a expert on the bible…..nor do I want to be …but if this quote is true……then it specifically states in the bible that if I don’t accept Jesus….I will go to hell….so………………….. your argument just completely crumbled….? Though I’m not sure what your actually argument was…lol

Thanks Shawn B.


[edit on 22-1-2008 by andre18]

[edit on 22-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Look….I’m going to tell you straight……You AshleyD, give me a headache, a train could run over my head, and I’d be like…..huh…better that then AshleyD…


I would say the feeling is mutual but I think migraine would be the more appropriate term due to your condescending rants to just about everyone who tries to answer your questions. I'm apparently not alone.

This person doesn't understand you either.
I think you gave this man a migraine, too.
This person had to be given pain killers after this thread.
Do you have any tylenol for this guy?
This person shares my pain.

It seems your intention and repetitiveness is confusing everyone.

So here is your answer in black and white:

According to the Christian faith (we cannot speak for other religions who also believe in Hell) if you do not believe in Jesus Christ for salvation you go to Hell. That is a Christian answer to your Christian question using Christian doctrine. There is your answer. Do you like the answer? No. But that is the answer to your question. Unbelievers go to Hell.

At least a warning was given and the way to avoid going there is immensely simple: Belief. Something no one can take away from you: Belief. Something only you can choose as to not have anything or anyone prevent you from salvation: Belief. No works just: Belief.

[edit on 1/22/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 

Dude these christian conversations can be brutal, er cough cough.

I consider my self christian I have asked the spirit into my life so tospeak asking for salvation through the Lord and savior.

I really want to reinject points I seem to get no response to often in hopes you might consider and I offer these in the most pragmatic of circumstances.

There are people who believe word for word the way the bible reads or other people have interpreted for them. I don't believe this is the intention of the bible which is written in parables sometimes riddle like. If you take shakespeare for example sometimes you don't know what the hell he talks about in some acts, but there is an english teacher there waiting to fail you for not interpreting it in her way although I was a pretty decent English student(pot heads did good in those classes).

I often think back to a good friend of mine, who coincidently is a very logical sort of person, HE told our teacher"how do you know so well exactly what the author meant did he publish a, book of trnslations and descriptions of exactly what he meant in todays english with our unique sentence structure accounted for"

This statement sounds like a smart ass response however has direct relevance to the translations of the bible. It's obvious you can't stand ashleyd and she is probably tired of trying to prove her point to you!! LOL maybe? But she makes good points when she just refrenced several points on evolution vs creationism. I don't want to steal topics from other threads but I believe science and evolution show gods ways in action.

Let me get off that and on to the point, The impression I get from the afore mentioned scriptures are that when you deny god or Jesus you start to walk in the path of wrong doing. These commandments are universal truths in the sense that no one feels it's right to kill anyone or steal from someone who works hard for there possesions and , ineffect steal their glory inthe same way I don't feel right stealing from him.

I AM A DEDICATED CHRISTIAN BUT SEE MOST THINGS RELATE TO ONE ANOTHER IN LOGICAL WAYS. In this logical view of the bible it takes on different meanings for me which I am sometimes openly and brutaly criticised for. Which is not the manner in which Jesus taught. But when you see the bible in this light you begin to form your own opinions.

The bible says that god created us in his own image therefore after reading it in entirity I got the feeling that a person knows whether he has been naughty or nice (oops thats adifferent story) and god really doesn't have to do alot of judging. Some people live in their own eternal damnation wrought from guilt. I've found even the most non-remorsful people eventually come around(not always true)

Another interesting point is how if people were to alter the bible to persude for what ever reason, money, stubborness, or whatever eternal damnaton is a good selling point. Don't misunderstand though, it is true when ever you do something horrible you feel bad about it, not because you were brainwashed but because you knoe it wasn't the right thing to do.

I am no expert, none of these statements are fact but they feel right. Agree or not? If you truly read this Bible without being convinced of anything I think anyone will see it takes on different meanings every time you read it. If they are good people they will not burn in hell I don't care what any christian brothers or atheist brothers believe!



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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Ashley please respond too I'd like to know what your opinion is on my interpretations!



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 02:46 AM
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lololololol....do you seriously want me to go to the creation thread and show how many people find you (well I can't say it....I’ll get warned) don't even try to compare...lol...and even so……I really don’t give a (….) if some small minded Christians have a problem with me…….life goes on……



Yes, if you do not believe in God, through Jesus, according to the Christian faith you go to Hell. That is a Christian answer to a question based on Christianity using Christian doctrine. There is your answer. Do you like it?


I love it….you accept the fact that someone who doesn’t accept your beliefs is going to burn in hell….for ever and ever and be tortured....to the ends of time…….ya ….I’m pretty happy with that answer…..

azblack…

Thanks for the reply……


There are people who believe word for word the way the bible reads or other people have interpreted for them. I don't believe this is the intention of the bible which is written in parables sometimes riddle like.


So you’d rather make your own interpretation on what the bible says…well done……you don’t find many Christians doing that…… although I am puzzled as to through your own interpretations you make of this…..?

Exodus 21:17
Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.


I believe science and evolution show gods ways in action.


Well said……instead of not believing in something like evolution…you mould it into a perspective of how god works….its better then looking at viruses and seeing the fact they become immune to antibiotics and saying that’s not evolution in progress…lol



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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I believe Hell, if there is such a place, is reserved for those truly evil people. Not evil in the eyes of "God" or whoever you chose to worship, but evil in respects to human decency and morals in general.

Eg. Murderers, rapists, paedofiles and the like. If you do an act as evil as any of that then I believe you deserve to be tortured for a very, very long time. Eternity may be a bit long, but maybe we can decide on a case-by-case basis? I believe that your suggestion of killing off an entire species of animal intentionally would constitute as one of these evil acts, though I don't believe you deserve to be tortured, at all.

I understand that in Christianity if you don't believe, you go to hell. Simple as that. But Christianity is just another religion out of many that tell us that if we don't believe them then we're going to suffer unimaginable pain. It has just much chance of being right or wrong as all the rest out there.

Basically, if you live your life in a nice, happy and caring manner then I think you should be 'right for the afterlife, whatever it is. I don't believe in any particular religion, but some lessons that they teach I agree with wholeheartedly. Like love thy neighbour, don't bloody kill anyone (not *exactly* how it's said in the bible, but it's close), don't cheat, and all that sort of stuff that should be a given anyway.

Also, on a side note, Andre, your replies to some posters on here are very, very rude and disrespectful. You posted a question that is going to get a lot of different points of views, you should be keeping an open mind. Yet you laugh at and ridicule a lot of people simply because they believe something different to you. Regardless of whether you agree with the relpies you get (in a forum that you obviously disagree with in the first place) you should still treat the posters with the same respect you would expect, otherwise you're just putting your ignorance out there for the entire site to see.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
I love it….you accept the fact that someone who doesn’t accept your beliefs is going to burn in hell….for ever and ever and be tortured....to the ends of time…….ya ….I’m pretty happy with that answer…..


Do Christians accept the concept of Hell? Yes. Do we like it? No. Do Christians believe that murder and rape exist? Yes. Do we like it? No. This is something I have explained to you many, many times on your many, many posts about Hell. Wishing something away does not make it go away. If it truly exists, no one's dread of the concept makes it go away.





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