Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?

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posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 03:50 AM
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Do Christians accept the concept of Hell? Yes. Do we like it? No. Do Christians believe that murder and rape exist? Yes. Do we like it? No. This is something I have explained to you many, many times on your many, many posts about Hell. Wishing something away does not make it go away. If it truly exists, no one's dread of the concept makes it go away.



The fact is….you have the choice to believe in what ever you want….out of all the different ideas theories in the world….and you choose….the very one that has the least amount of morality…..

You don’t have to believe in the bible……”de we like it” if you don’t like it then simply don’t believe in it….how much more simpler does it have to be…..you think that even if you were to somehow stop believing in it would still exist, hell would still be real…….well no it wouldn’t…hell was adopted in the Christian faith from other religions…..the first concepts of hell came from ancient civilization….and then throughout the ages it has evolved into what it is today……




posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 
The old testament is scared with numerous justifications for judgement by mankind. These are the direct sins that Jesus died for on the cross. His whole life was put to an end as proof of mans incapability to judge another. God judges (as taught in New Testament) as a father judges a son with open arms and the willingness toforgive. This is because he knows his judgement will come in life lessons. A man often learns more from his mistakes than he does from ANYONE teaching him. This is the nature of man, and is also directly responsible for the evolution of intelligence.

These natural "life lessons" are proven in science as Einstein put it every action creates an opposite and equal reaction. God to me embodies this balancing act during such testaments of violence and his wrath thats why these actions are not evil, just his way of exerting the delicate balance over the universe.

My favorite proof of time's way of rendering -some- old testament verses obsulete is in exodus I have to look it up but

20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.

If your mad at your parents even temporarily the religious leaders should kill you, but kill some servants, uh we'll punish you somehow.ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL!!

The way Jesus got himself killed was to simply walk into the temple tear some # up, and tell the people it is not our relgious responsibility to decide what merchants you can buy from we shouldn't sell products in our temple. Not a direct quote but they TORTURED HIM ON THE CROSS FOR THAT. I believe this has extreme signifigance in to days society. I'm glad I'm not a legal judge.

Thanks for response.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Andre,
You are right it is a choice and faith is required. It is not wrong to search as I think you are. If you to put faith in atheism, wisdom of man or of fallen angels at least keep an open mind. I am not saying you are like this but many accuse christians of close mindedness when they themselves are that way when it comes to Christianity. I accepted Christ at a young age, I likely was on the road to crime and prison. I heard a message in a revival that my parents made me go to..Everyone was walking forward to be prayed with about receiving Christ as savior. I was the last to go- but I went. I realized then those things I was doing were wrong and I could be forgiven and not be on road to hell. I made a choice I have not regretted it. It didn't take away my interest in the paranormal, ufos, bigfoot or anything..
BP



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


You seem over occupied by hell for some reason. As an atheist it shouldn't even bother you what any religious person believes or thinks, yet there it is, you have a real conflict with God. I have read it all through your posts. You are upset at God because some people end up in hell.

Not everyone is going to hell. There is a choice. But that choice has to be done by faith, there is no other way. Now we can believe in other ways and even say there is no God in our hearts but it changes nothing. In the end you and everyone else will eventually die and face eternity. Are you so sure in your heart that there is no God? Have you really covered all of the bases? Because if you are wrong and you end up in hell, the only thing you'll ever think about is that you didn't have to be there after all. AshleyD and others have answered the question to you. So what do you do now..?



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by azblack
The old testament is scared with numerous justifications for judgement by mankind. These are the direct sins that Jesus died for on the cross. His whole life was put to an end as proof of mans incapability to judge another.


Then why is it that most Christians believe in the death penalty? Seems like a pretty glaring hypocrisy.

How can a Christian be so for the death penalty - the killing of a "soul" that is alive and breathing - and yet so adamantly against early abortion and stem cell research?

Keep in mind I'm not talking about abortions late in the pregnancy, just in general.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Fromabove
 


Maybe its the hypocrisy of this church that angers him and keeps him from believing blindly. Almost no Christians practice what they preach, and to an outsider its angering and funny at the same time.

Maybe Muslims should start coming up to Christians and tell them they are going to hell for worshiping the wrong savior? That would at least give them some perspective of the situation.



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 
This is indeed the one of the larger problems in todays society. Having read my post you would conclude I would be against these penalties and punishments, howevr I am not. I don' t necessarily speak in support of them either. sounds like I have no position huh.

Again this is one of the problems we face believing that fundamentally killing someone is wrong. But having the understanding to tolerate someone who is a direct threat to society being sentence to death. This seems a hypocrtical view. but I personally believe the bible illustrates Gods personal relationship with an individual not necessarily the whole of society. These points are very difficult to explain fully but to try to keep it simple and keep your intrest, I say He expects us to govern ourselfs to some degree and Jesus comes and teaches this most be done under the upmost scrutiny. Also like I said the Bible. Ultimately there has to be a sort of middle ground where compassion and need for elimination of direct threats need to be made. This is a very delicate subject in the fact that no human can claim to have a provable right answer to this question. It's hard to say it's hypocracy to say you shouldn't kill people but someone who will kill again should be allowed to in jail or free..??



posted on Jan, 22 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by Fromabove
reply to post by andre18
 
You seem over occupied by hell for some reason. As an atheist it shouldn't even bother you what any religious person believes or thinks, yet there it is, you have a real conflict with God. I have read it all through your posts. You are upset at God because some people end up in hell.


It should very much bother me.....we live in the 21st century…..I’ll repeat, the 21st century……we shouldn’t be living in a world where people can just accept that we were created by some kind of invisible man without any proof, that’s going to send us to hell just for what we do for our short lives….it makes no sense….what if a child was to be brought up in a Buddhist family, get hit by a car and end up in the hell because the child didn’t know of the Christian god, or died before it could learn about it…..and even if the child did know of the bible, your god would still send the child to hell for disbelieving for what ever reason, for example, it did not have enough proof or faith to accept it……….

It is embarrassing that we can have people to be intelligent enough to build a bomb, but not enough to work out the morality of being sent to hell for being gay…….it makes no sense…… that is why religion bothers me, it dumbs people down, I can actually prove it, if you ever meet a Chinese person who’s actually from china, they will most probably be extremely smart….if you meet a Chinese person whose born in America…..they wont have nearly half the brains as the other…..it’s all to do with this dumbing down through religion……

I’m interested In hell, because it is an interesting subject…..to think that you’d spend an eternity in hell just for either doing something bad, (what someone does that’s bad can be only defined by the set culture….what maybe wrong in one country may not be in another, and so there is a problem with how god can punish people according to government laws and the different denomination of religions in the world and how people live their lives by them.)

I can’t be upset at something that doesn’t exist…lol


Not everyone is going to hell. There is a choice. But that choice has to be done by faith, there is no other way. Now we can believe in other ways and even say there is no God in our hearts but it changes nothing. In the end you and everyone else will eventually die and face eternity. Are you so sure in your heart that there is no God? Have you really covered all of the bases? Because if you are wrong and you end up in hell, the only thing you'll ever think about is that you didn't have to be there after all. AshleyD and others have answered the question to you. So what do you do now..?


What do I do now…? I live my life the way I see it through logic…..if something can be scientifically proven……and it makes sense, yeah, I guess I’ll probably believe it. Its your choice whether or not you want to believe in an invisible sky daddy through blind faith……and to believe that over 6 billion people according to your faith are going to be sent to hell by your loving god, just for not believing In a 2000 year old book….



[edit on 22-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 12:08 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
what if a child was to be brought up in a Buddhist family, get hit by a car and end up in the hell because the child didn’t know of the Christian god, or died before it could learn about it…..and even if the child did know of the bible, your god would still send the child to hell for disbelieving for what ever reason, for example, it did not have enough proof or faith to accept it……….


1). Children do not go to hell. Neither do babies. This is stated explicitly in the Bible at least two times in both Testaments. No one goes to Hell if they die before the age of accountability. There is no set age- it's just when that one person is old enough to understand. Which leads us to point two:

2). A Buddhist who never heard the Gospel, never knew Jesus existed, and has no idea who "Jehovah" is will not go to Hell. Hell is only for those who have heard the Gospel, understood it, and willingly choose to reject Jesus.


It is embarrassing that we can have people to be intelligent enough to build a bomb, but not enough to work out the morality of being sent to hell for being gay…….it makes no sense……


It doesn't make any sense because you don't go to hell just because you are gay. Yes, homosexuality is mentioned as a sin in the Bible but it is a sin. Just like other sins. We're not supposed to sin but again, we are saved through grace. Not being perfect. A born again Christian who is struggling with homosexuality does not go to Hell because they are gay.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by WorldShadow
 



Hm. You speak (erm type) like one.
I always follow the good ole addage, "Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has feathers. It's a duck." even if it says its a fish.
You attempt to insult my intelligence with claiming otherwise has failed.

And yes atheism has an enemy. Religion.
Anyone who doesn't notice the constant bickering isn't bothering to look for whatever reason.

And as for the killing and all the BS.
That isn't religion.
That is humanity.
We are way screwed up animals, get used to it.
The hows and whys of it we could argue for millenia and still get no where.

Oh and before you babble about "my god" read my other posts within this thread alone.



[edit on 23-1-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by ts117

Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Why did god create me knowing I was going to be an atheist……and then Christians tell me it’s my bloody fault…..? lol



I dont really understand why a self professed atheist would start a thread about religious ideology. Why ask questions when you dont want to believe the answers?



This has been going on here since I got here.
It's all part of the continuing bickering. It's taken on a life of its own methinks. They continue it not for any real purpose other than to stick their fingers in the opposing group's eyes just to do it.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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Children do not go to hell. Neither do babies. This is stated explicitly in the Bible at least two times in both Testaments. No one goes to Hell if they die before the age of accountability. There is no set age- it's just when that one person is old enough to understand.


Ok so show me the links to the verses that say it…….accountability….lol…..most countries have different ages where children can be charged for such things as murder, if say turkey’s age for teenagers or children for example was 10, then according to you, a child at 10 who has heard of "Jehovah" will still go to hell…..and wait there’s more…..lol…..the age of a child being accountable for murder in other countries for example in Africa some might be 12, so there are two distinct difference in ages where children or teenagers who do or don’t accept "Jehovah" will still go to hell……and wait there’s more…..where it says in the bible “. No one goes to Hell if they die before the age of accountability” you or the bible for that matter, need to specify what type what accountability is being defined……is it the accountability to vote, to be charged with murder, or what age is strictly to young to be tried in court……

You see, because each country has their own age to be accountable for their own actions…..any child from the age of 8-15 could be sent to hell by your loving god just because they don’t believe…..” There is no set age- it's just when that one person is old enough to understand” even then…..each child may or may not be old enough to ‘understand’ lol…at different ages……and so……a teenager at 17 may begin to understand and yet may reject your god, where a 10 year old may also begin to understand and yet may also reject your god……and so………because they are simply old enough to understand……at say 8…….your loving god will still send an 8 year old to hell because they understand but do not accept your loving god…….lololol……..

That’s Christian morality for you…………..lololololololol


It doesn't make any sense because you don't go to hell just because you are gay. Yes, homosexuality is mentioned as a sin in the Bible but it is a sin. Just like other sins. We're not supposed to sin but again, we are saved through grace. Not being perfect. A born again Christian who is struggling with homosexuality does not go to Hell because they are gay.


lol…..it still doesn’t make any sense…….even if gays don’t go to hell…even though I’ve heard plenty of priests say they do…..and who are more credible you or a priest ….lol….. and so even if gays don’t go to hell, they are still sinning, and so…..why are they sinning….why…..it makes no bloody sense….why does your god think anybody who is gay sinning…? How can being gay be a sin……( I’m not gay by the way….lol ) all this illogical bs…..is the reason why your religion makes no bloody sense…..Please till me how being gay is a sin in the first place….what makes being gay a sin……

Any money says you have so answer…..and the simple truth to that is……because when that book was written..(by people as normal as you and me) it was written by people who generally hated people for being gay……probably, I’m guessing, because it was almost unheard of for people not to get married at, at leat 20 or so…..and so these men not being married probably dishonoured the families and such….which caused being gay to be in the bible….just an idea……



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


*ahem* *ahem* Eugenics *ahem* *ahem*



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 02:42 AM
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sorry I didn't read all the posts but at the risk of being redundant I will back up my good lord Jesus and tell you that his word was used by the devil himself to fool people into all sorts of things. You just can't trust humans sometimes.

When george bush tells you he talks to God do you hold that against God?



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by dakota jim
 


Considering my god (poor word to use but read it as ALL of reality) is all around and within my body (except my mind, thats mine). And really what we consider "God" is the intellegence (in a way we don't understand) of our reality. To put it simplisticly.
And isn't a crochety old man angry at me for existing.
(Sorry to use the harsh terminology people but he did ask. I don't expect people to judge the world by MY little window into seeing as to how they can't. But I digress.)

I think George Bush is a greedy man that hides his greed by playing the religious zealot wanting to attack the other greedy men also playing religious zealots of a different color.

And as for your claims to Christian views.
I find that really hard to believe based on your statements before.
If your going to act at least make it believable please.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by WraothAscendant]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by WraothAscendant
 


Sorry, what statement do you mean? I stand by Jesus and the Bhudda and even Gurdjieff it is two effs isn't it

[edit on 23-1-2008 by dakota jim]

[edit on 23-1-2008 by dakota jim]



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by dakota jim
 


Ok I need to do this when I can pay more attention. You answered a post addressed to someone else I thought it was addressing what I said to him and stupid me not paying attention to the names (just the statements) I responded in kind.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 05:52 AM
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AshleyD,
I was surprised when you said >> A Buddhist who never heard the Gospel, never knew Jesus existed, and has no idea who "Jehovah" is will not go to Hell. Hell is only for those who have heard the Gospel, understood it, and willingly choose to reject Jesus.

If that is the case are you saying all missionairies should not take the gospel to every corner of the world? Assuming most reject it then mathematically would be doing their society a disservice. I'd be interested to hear where in the bible a statement backing that statement up is.
BP



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by BlackProjects
 


Ohh. I love that question. Perfect representation of the ideological fallacies that I hear so often.

Great question.



posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Then like everyone else has said, why do you keep asking? Do you remember what I said on your last thread? I told you if I do not believe in Zeus, consider Zeus a myth, and admit I think the belief in Zeus as well as his followers are stupid, then why would I continue to create threads about Zeus? It would be a waste of time for all parties involved.


Let's try to cast a different light on this.

What if your government made policies based on the assumed existance of Zeus?

How about if people preached to you about Zeus while you went about your daily business?

What if politicians had to publicly reaffirm their belief in Zeus every now and then?

What if the commander in chief said that Zeus spoke to him?

You might get fed up and decide that you'd like to tell all of the believers that they're nuts whenever you can.
Or, a weak minded person might join up with the Zeus believers, either just to fit in or because of fear of the afterlife.

And to the OP... Perhaps you should've asked if the religious cannot see the obvious logical fallacy in hell? To threaten torture in order to change a belief is a classic brainwashing tactic. If you can actually scare a rational person in truly BELIEVING something, then their mind is no longer their own.





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