Do people who aren’t Christian deserve be tortured in hell?, page 18


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reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:37 AM by Res Ipsa
Originally posted by andre18

Without giving it a whole lot of thought Christians will frequently say all those who don’t accept Jesus deserve to go to hell, they don’t deserve salvation, they deserve to be tortured forever.


...sorry for not reading through the thread but I'm sure it was a tired debate about Hell and evil religion and such.

1) I'm a Christian, spent my life around them. They don't say if you don't accept Jesus you "deserve" to go to hell.
2) what they do say is however not much of an improvement. they say;
a) it is not up to them but God, he is the ulitimate judge.
b) because of that you need to read..blah, blah, in the Bible, that says oh, yee, of unworthy stock and seed, if you don't..blah, blah, then you will burn in torment with the fallen twisted corpse of sin and...blah, blah.
c) they take no responsibility for your beliefs or their own. they have no problem accepting God as a punishing human like King who is Just in all he does so sending people to Hell is his Just perogative.

3) or you get the crowd that martyr themselves when they say it is a Christian's responsibility to "show you the light" and it is their fault for not being an effective missionary or disciple...but of course God will forgive them since they are making this great effort to save your soul.

...As for you, you should stop seeking out the "fringe" Christian's because the majority of us don't think like that.

...If in fact Hell was a "physical" place then you would have as much to fear of it as these fringe Christian's. Because, when a so called Christian misrepresents the message of Christ and it cause you and many others like you to reject (and rightly so) the hypocrisy and the complete lack of sane reasoning, then they are turning you away from him, I could pull out scripture after scripture to throw in their faces about how they themselves are racing their way towards Hell. Ironic obviously.

...Avoid losing arguments with them. "If your God is so loving, then why....?" The fringer's and the literalist will drive you insane with their circular logic.

...be a good person, choose love more often than not love, do on to others, and Jesus will vouch for you because what you did onto others you did onto him. For the pharisies out there, well they will be in for a great dissapointment. Nobody, from any religion, from any culture, is any more or less likely to go to Hell or Heaven.


reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 08:46 AM by Xeven
Originally posted by saint4God
I appreciate your work on the thread, but did want to clarify a point:

Originally posted by miriam0566
first off hellfire is not biblical.


"But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Matthew 5:23

"It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." - Matthew 18:9

"It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." - Mark 9:43

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." - Matthew 25:41

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 1:7

There's more surely, these are a few more poignant examples.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by saint4God]


You have pointed out the obvious flaw in Christianity. Their own Bible defeats their own beliefs. I do believe it is possible for there to be a god and maybe...big maybe he came to us as a human Jesus, but I refuse to believe the bible is ALL truth since it was written and edited by man.

Miriam will likely go on to teach his/her, children/friends the same false belief that she posses. That friend/child may go on to become a preacher or maybe write a New New Testament explaining those thoughts. In 1000 years after governments (rewrite) the New New testament to fit the needs of that government people will now believe it is the Word Of God.

The Bible is not the Word of God if there is a god. At best it was inspired by the delusional spiritual thoughts of men and at worst rewrote in a fashion to control the masses, which it has done very well.

I do believe that there may be a God and there could be a Jesus, but not exactly as written in the Bible we see today.

There is a possibility that the gods we know from history were advanced alien race or even a future us. Either of these could also be the UFO's we see today.

Hell does not exist in my opinion. I hope though that we somehow continue on in spirit and awareness after our bodies die. I think this hope of mine is what drives people's faith in religions with promised after life. People hate to think there self awareness can die (end) and become meaningless to the universe.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Xeven]


reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:02 AM by LeoVirgo
reply to post by saint4God



I tend to disagree here.

There are things in the Bible that my spirit feels is truth and there are things my spirit feels is deception. I am a part of Thee and to think Im not worthy of weighing and measuring every seed (even scriptures) would be denying myself of my abilities that Thee can work through me and show me things. Most of the OT is simply History and re telling of older stories and traditions. I also believe we should be careful to assume that all the words of Christ are a literal word for word translation. Christ taught us the power of love and how love conquers all things. Unity, love, peace, harmony, grace and mercy is what Christ taught. I think its important to read all of the text that talk about Christ, NT and gnostic text...for they all hold the foundation of the teachings.

Do you really think its so hard for translators or copiers to place in a few extra words that would tie Jesus to the OT teachings? It wouldnt be hard at all, for the OT teachings were looking for a savior. Yes, Jesus came from this heritage, which is why this heritage is so full of themselves. This was just another testing of the people, to see if the temptation of pride could be fought. Pride has won over being humbled.

The problem with any material is its just that, its material. And frankly, its two different personalities. Either God is bi-polar or God evolves, just like us, and changes. (If you go by the entire Bible). I choose to feel God is constant and non changing. God was love, is love and will be love. But to God, time does not exists, so the was and is and will be is insufficiency of language. I feel that Thee has wovan Thee word throughout many materials for the seeker who searches for growth and wills to do the works of the natural order in all things.

Jesus did bring a path, that path is very valid. But again, we have placed the need for blood apone Gods hands through Christ. I feel Christ did know he would be killed, it wasnt that hard to predict such a thing...look at how many had problems with his teachings. The burnings of scriptures, killings of people...even hunts for heretics by Gods people?!? To think man can not deceive other man is naive. To think man wouldn't take a divine message and work it to mans benefit is blindness to what man is capable of with greed and pride.

What better way to get man to not understand God then to say...God requires blood. This teaching alone is one of the most dangerous teachings that is on this Earth. To think that it wouldn't have been enough for the OT people to simple be aware with in their hearts of greed or pride, aware of asking and receiving forgiveness by a simple pure thought is taking away the majesty of Thee. All Thee needs is awareness of what we do. A humble heart will get you to Thee....and so will following the ways that Christ walked (because this again, would lead you to live a humble life). No blood was ever needed. God needs no material things for our wrong doings. Thee only needs awareness of purification of ones heart, thoughts and soul.

I follow Christs ways...but in no way do I label myself as anything but a divine soul finding my way back home.

LV



reply posted on 20-11-2008 @ 09:53 AM by mastermind77
Originally posted by jdposey
reply to
post by theindependentjournal



And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (revelation 20:1-15)

These scriptures are pretty clear. If you take the account of Lazarus and the rich man

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

It seems it is hard to analyze this place away as not being actual "flames." I know people do that, but scripture clearly lays it out as it is.


I think humankind is connected to a swirling ball of magnetic waves and light, and our chemical brains and iron filled blood could reach these waves and receive transmissions. That is what I think the religious texts are a product of, visions of the future through someones elses brainwaves. God may have made it this way. But so far all i see is mankind playing god, pretending in desperate hope for reality, reality is chosen moment to moment.
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