THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

Originally posted by Clearskies
Isaia 26:19-21,

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

This was the main subject of a newsletter I got today from Paw Creek Ministries.
I had forgotten this passage. Pastor Joseph Chambers is such a blessing to me with convient and timely studies!

The Rapture is Our Blessed Hope to escape the coming tribulation.
Live right, die right(if you have to die!)

Sir, please understand that there is no Rapture of the Church to escape the tribulation.

Please read I Corinthians 15:51-58 and notice that Paul says this will be at the last trump of God! This theme is repeated again in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 But the last trump is not mentioned.

Then Read Revelations 10:7 & Revelations 11:15-19! This chapter talks about the last trump of God and the end of all things (the way they are now).

I am a Christian as well but a lot of today's doctrine is entirely not Biblical.
People are very quick to believe a man as being an authority just because he is standing behind a pulpit with a degree in divinity!

If Jesus were to appear here for the first time he would say the same things to our religious leaders as he said to the Jewish religious leaders during the time of his earthly ministry.

Keep in mind that "narrow is the gate that leads to redemption." Matthew 7:13-14.

Matt 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect (RAPTURE) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2cd Thess 2:1-4
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (RAPTURE), we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God (abomination of desolation).


According to these scriptures, the rapture will not accur untill the sun is darkened to the point that you cannot even see the moon, and not untill after the Antichrist rises to power and is revealed to the world (abomination of desolation). That will not happen until the Jews get to share the temple mount with the Islams and get to build a third temple, which Antichrist will enter and defile by claiming to be God.

All of the items of temple worship have been made. A special "Red Heifer" has been bred. All that is needed is a peace treaty (roadmap to peace) and surrender of Jewish land in exchange for a temple. Take a look at the news because the Jews are now willing to surrender part of Jerusalem in exchange for rights to the temple mount.

The time is very near.

Not to rain on anyones parade but concerning the "Rapture" and the church not going through the tribulation. First of all God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, thus He never changes nor does His modus operandi.

Question; did Noah go through the flood or was he "Raptured" away?
Answer; through the flood.

Question; did the three Hebrews go through the furnace or were they "Raptured" away?
Answer; through the furnace.

Question; did Danial spend the night with the lions or was he "Raptured" away?
Answer; through the night with the lions.

In all three cases they went through the tribulation so where does it say in scripture that God will change His ways and "Rapture" the church away? It doesn't, what it does say is that the church is not appointed to the wrath of God but you bet your bottom dollar we will suffer the wrath of Satan.

Please read Rev. 11, it tells you what will happen to the believers.

reply to post by pstrron


Exactly you are proving the point of the rapture.. God saves his church from his wrath.. the bible shows over and over again that he removes his church before bringing down his wrath... Noah went through the flood in an ark.. him and his family were saved and were protected.. they did not drown like the rest of the world.. as well as the three teenagers you are referring.. to.. they said look someone is in the fire with them and they were gone... Christ took them.

Originally posted by BlackProjects
The rapture is one of my favorite topics and some interesting pts and questions have been raised on this thread. I am probably 90% pre-trib

I'm just about 100% convinced of no "rapture" at all... Really, you all ignore the fact that the bible makes clear that Christians will still be here during the truibulation, as a matter of fact, the tribulation is the FAITHFUL'S final test.

My point is that now is no different than then, we are just as barbaric and corrupt as the world was before us.

Apart from now we have anough nuclear power too blow the earth up tens times over. Which is why this IS the end times which is written in the Bible as there has never been a time before now and that we have been so technologically advanced. That why god will intervene and stop us before its too late. He Will destroy the current system and setup his system. A real governent free from wars and greedy bankers and evil doers who has only special interests.

The rapture thing though is not going too happen. That is what traditional christianty is brought too believe but is not true. We are currently awaiting the seventh seal too open next year which marks the countdown too the last three and half years left of this current system before it will be crushed too the ground my Gods power.

The sixth seal opened when 9/11 occured, that was what the bible mentioned as being a great thunder which was heard all around the world.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (BLACK SACKCLOTH COVERING THE SUN) like the smoke that covererd the sun from 9/11 and a great thunder which the whole world got too hear about. That is exactly what it is refering to.

reply to post by Fromabove

The Day of Man is separate from
the Rapture.
The Day of Man IS the judgement. The Tribulation.
When Lot was told by the angels that they could not do anything to the city until they were gone.

God will not send wrath on the believers as well as the sinners!

Jesus said " Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." Luke 21:36

He's speaking of escaping from the snare, the trap, the Great Delusion.

Those that are gathered(the elect) are those converted,(whether Jew or gentile) During the tribulation, who refused the antichrist.

We're not in The Great Tribulation, yet.
It will be worse than the inquisition.

[edit on 5-12-2007 by Clearskies]

Where did the ancients go to escape persecution? The wilderness.. The closest thing anyone is going to receive to a "rapture" is living in the wilderness and being on a constant move... All of this dreamy stuff of being caught up in the air, et cetera, et cetera, is just that, a dream. What's really frightening is that it's a deception. A deception that isn't only threatening physically, but spiritually as well.

I'd Like to point out a few things that I think have been overlooked. One of the major issue's with modern day Christianity is that it has thrown out its roots. Christianity came about from a JEWISH Messiah who came to redeem the WHOLE world, should they accept him.

Today we like to try and interpret the Bible and its prophecies without considering first the time and people which they were written by. You cannot properly interpret a scripture of prophecy unless you have the mindset of the person it was written by. It seems the the main verse being used here is from 1 Thessalonian, and this was written by Saul of Tarsus, otherwise known as Paul. Paul was Jewish and was on his way to Damascus to persecute the early Church when he was blinded and subsequently converted.

So with all that in mind. There are 7 main holy days or feast days in the Jewish tradition. Leviticus 23 explains them. All of these Feasts have associated with them some sort of prophetic event.

Here are the prophetic meanings:

Passover: Passover, celebrated on the 14th of Nisan
Prophetic Meaning: Showed the true Lamb of G-d, Yeshua (Jesus), sacrificed for our sins.


Matzah: Unleavened Bread, celebrated for 7 days, beginning the day after Passover.
Prophetic Meaning: Speaks of the burial of Yeshua (Jesus).


First Fruits: First Fruits of the Barley Harvest, occurs 3rd day after Pasach
Prophetic Meaning: Speaks of the Resurrection of Yeshua (Jesus), this occurred on Sunday the year Yeshua was resurrected (the first day of the week).


Pentecost: First fruits of the Wheat Harvest, Giving of the Torah to Moshe (Moses)
Prophetic Meaning: Speaks of the giving of the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Breath or Holy Spirit) at Pentecost.


Rosh Hashanah: Feast of Trumpets, sounding of the Trumpets, and beginning of the Jewish civil year (as opposed to the biblical year). This begins the Days of Awe, 10 days of repentance in preparation for the Day of Atonement.
Prophetic Meaning: Speaks of the future rapture of believers from the earth with Yeshua appearing in the clouds, and calling all His children to Him by the sounding of a Shofar (trumpet).


Yom Kippur: The Day of Atonement, the most Holy day for Jews worldwide.
Prophetic Meaning: Speaks of the future return of the King, Yeshua, to the earth to destroy iniquity from Jacob, and defeat of the forces of the Adversary.


Sukkot: Tabernacles, dwelling in booths to commemorate the exodus and G-d’s provision for His people. Leviticus 23:42-43 “You are to live in sukkot for seven days; every citizen of Israel is to live in sukkah, so that generation after generation of you will know that I made the people of Israel live in sukkot when I brought them out of the land of Egypt; I am Adonai your God.”
Prophetic Meaning: This day is very likely to be the actual birthday of Yeshua (Jesus). Speaks of the future coronation of the King Yeshua and the beginning of the Millennial reign.

As you can see they all have a prophetic purpose. The ones that are the important here are Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. One deals with Christ coming for his children and the second deals with Christ returning to rule. They don't happen at the same time and are separated by 10 days.

So the idea of the rapture is not at all "new". In fact it goes back to the time of Moses. Another thing to point out is that 4 of the 7 feast have been prophetically fulfilled and they occurred in rather rapid succession. This leads me to believe that the final 3 will also be fulfilled in the same way. So fellow believers, when you hear that shofar blast, look up; For you redemption draweth nigh!

reply to post by Arkanjel


very good point.... it is important to remember that the new testament is nothing with out the old... someone once told me read the new testament once and the old twice... everything in the new is some how related to the old the promises the prophecies spoken of in the old are fullfilled in the new.. the hold still holds value today and to our future..

reply to post by Arkanjel


Yes, I heard a pentecostal minister describing this..

reply to post by MinMin


if no one minds, i would like to put my two cents in. minmin you asked about the innocent babies and ppl who had not heard the Gospel. Somehow ppl are mistaking the tribulation with the end of the world. several other things take place before the end comes. even if the believers (at the time of the catching away) are removed, God's spirit will still remain. there will be ppl continuing to be saved.
if our eternal destiny was decided the moment we left this earth, the way i see it, is that we wouldn't have need for a Judgement Day. that day isn't all about bad judgement. it's good for good and bad for bad.the way i read it, the world never completely ends, we get a new heaven and new earth.
i have not made a final decision on whether the catching away happens pre-trib, mid-trib or after trib. it does not matter to me, because by faith, i know that if i do go thru any part of the great tribulation, that God is still with me. and God is still God, no matter what.
i suffer tribulations nearly every day, but they generally work to make me a stronger person who knows that anything can be survived. as long as we have faith.
as far as the remark made to clearskies about who was he to say the end was near, i can only insert what i have gleaned from the bible. yes, ppl have been saying the end is near throughout the ages, but most of them did not take all the prophecys of revelations intto consideration. all those things have to be fulfilled before the end comes. and a lot of revelations wasn't even clearly understood until recent things came to pass. a lot of ppl gave up trying to understand what was written there, because it did not make sense to them. so they discounted it as a book of codes and symbols.
and yes, the bible does say, "No man knows the day or the hour." but in the next verse He goes on to say that we will see the signs of His coming and to be watchful.i read the the end time prophecies to mean that we are to live as though every day was the last one, and to prepare as if we will be here for ever.
and yes, the word rapture is not in the bible. but there are passages that mean the same thing. to me the word clearly indicates that there will be a catching away at some point in time. i don't personally hang to the hope because i want to escape a natural death. i look forward to it because the passage goes on to say that we will be caught up with HIM, to be with Him forever. that is what i am waiting for, whether i am one of the dead in Christ who rises first, or one of the ones who are alive and remain. the important thing to me is, i will be with Jesus.
and as far as what someone said about everybody being judged for their sins on judgement day; that doesn't have to happen either, if we get them forgiven before we leave the earth (or die). The bible says that if we ask for forgiveness He is faithful to forgive. that it will be cast as far from Him as the east is from the west, and cast in to the sea of forgetfulness and NEVER remembered against us again.
In the words of Rodney King, "Why can't we all just get along?" i suppose my views will come under attack as well. but this is what i have put a lot of time prayer and study into. so nothing anyone says here could easily sway me.
In the words of an admired pastor i once had, he said that if you want to tribulate, go ahead and tribulate. God won't stop you.
clear skies, i appreciate you efforts in opening this topic. i am not here to argue with anyone about what they believe. all i can say is what i believe the bible to say.

reply to post by sizzle


Thank you!
I'm glad to see so many thoughtful people considering this subject.

Also, I am not a guy......

reply to post by Clearskies


my apologies CS. bad assumption, huh?
i read something about one-liners being unacceptable but I really didn't have anything else to add except this. so i guess it is not a one-liner anymore. have a blessed day.

ooohhhh no. Not another victim of the rapture concept. The rapture is a way to get more people Christian. You really dont have to believe this. It is simply a misinterpretation of the bible. Dont let the Christian faith (or whatever) control your life like it did to some friends i used to have.

Did you notice the new testament was created around the time christianity came around? Bad juju there.

[edit on 5-12-2007 by shiman]

reply to post by shiman


thank you for your concern and advice shiman. but i don't allow anything to control my life except me and God. i have other healthy interests as well. i always read the bible with a prayer for proper understanding. if as a fallible human i get the wrong interpretation i believe God to enlighten me to the proper belief. i do consider what others have to say. especially when it is backed by scripture reference. but in the end i have to decipher the true meaning and believe that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit teaches us all things.
i find that what even most christians argue about are not the important things. to me the important thing is to be saved by believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God and to try to live my life by His example. when i fail at this (which i do at times) then i go before God, in the name of Jesus and ask for forgiveness. i think that is all any of us can do is try.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth



All people will -see- the salvation of God but will not RECEIVE it.

There is a difference.

the Salvation' John the Babtist was talking about here was Jesus HIMSELF. Read the rest of the Word:

Here is some of it continued:

Lu 3:7 Then said he (John) to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Lu 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of REPENTANCE, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Lu 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but ONE MIGHTIER THAN I COMETH, the latchet of whose shoes I am NOT worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Lu 3:17 Whose (Jesus) fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly PURGE HIS FLOOR, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the CHAFF HE WILL BURN WITH FIRE UNQUENCHABLE.

You can't take parts of the Bible you want to use and discard the rest. Salvation comes ONLY through the Lord Jesus Christ and REPENTANCE is required. No. ALL people will not RECEIVE salvation.. but they will see it.

God will be pouring out his spirit on all flesh before judgement comes because he is a just God and trust me when I tell you this.. the knowledge that you receive of the truth from God's outpouring will haunt you forever if you die in your sins.. the horror of this you do not have the mental killowatts to get your head around until you experience it.

Believe the Bible if you want but you can't take what want out of it and discard the rest. God is in control in way that would blow your mind with the proper revelation and only HE can give this revelation to you as a gift. I have it and believe me the Bible is what it says it is. Don't believe God can get his word put down on paper through people the way it was done with the Bible? Well, you better believe it.. He's God and he can do that.








[edit on 5-12-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply to post by sizzle


OK well heres your problem. First, you kinda just stated that god will save your life if you follow god. also for future reference, any attempts to convert me will fall dead and flat.

The HOLY SPIRIT doesn't teach. honorable and respectable people teach. God is to hold together matter and all that is tangible. God has no control over what we do or how we think. Those are developed over years of trial and error. I will only believe the alternative if god tells me so.

Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by sizzle

 

OK well heres your problem. First, you kinda just stated that god will save your life if you follow god. also for future reference, any attempts to convert me will fall dead and flat.

The HOLY SPIRIT doesn't teach. honorable and respectable people teach. God is to hold together matter and all that is tangible. God has no control over what we do or how we think. Those are developed over years of trial and error. I will only believe the alternative if god tells me so.

Ok, well heres YOUR problem.. It's not my problem at all. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just shining the flashlight.


The Holy Spirit does indeed teach through His anointing. As far as the rest of what you said, like I said earlier.. either believe in the Bible or not, that's up to you.

The rapture or "gathering of souls" is an old concept even mentioned in the Old Testament. All throught the Bible the Rapture is mentioned. It is called "a gathering"; Harvest....The term Rapture is relatively new, but not the event.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by cloakndagger