THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

shiman, i just saw something else in your statement that i forgot to address. you said to notice that the new testament came about at the time of Christ. Of course it did. that is what the new testament is mostly about. Jesus himself said that He did not come to do away with the old testament law, but to fulfill it. because He is referred to as the sacrificial Lamb, i take it to mean that we no longer have to spill the blood of animals to make a sacrifice for forgiveness of sins. that His blood was to be spilled one time for all eternity of forgiveness. if we ask.
the old testament law was not working very well. if you kept any part of the law you were responsible for keeping all of it. if you broke one part you were guilty of breaking all of it.
so it was flawed. Jesus reccommended fulfilling the law by Love. because love covers a multitude of wrong.

you know already, that God will cause them great delusion due to their unbelief. The Holy Spirit has been teaching since Christ accended....



reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

you know already, that God will cause them great delusion due to their unbelief. The Holy Spirit has been teaching since Christ accended....



reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

tgambill,

Thats one of the more haunting scriptures in the Bible:

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.



Just like being on a ship.. you can decide what you want to do while on the ship but ultimately you are going where the ship is going.

God is in control folks whether you like it or not and He is control in a way that does not violate your free will. It's hard to get your head around I know but don't forget.. He is indeed God.



[edit on 5-12-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]

Originally posted by sizzle
shiman, i just saw something else in your statement that i forgot to address. you said to notice that the new testament came about at the time of Christ. Of course it did. that is what the new testament is mostly about. Jesus himself said that He did not come to do away with the old testament law, but to fulfill it. because He is referred to as the sacrificial Lamb, i take it to mean that we no longer have to spill the blood of animals to make a sacrifice for forgiveness of sins. that His blood was to be spilled one time for all eternity of forgiveness. if we ask.
the old testament law was not working very well. if you kept any part of the law you were responsible for keeping all of it. if you broke one part you were guilty of breaking all of it.
so it was flawed. Jesus reccommended fulfilling the law by Love. because love covers a multitude of wrong.

Whoa!! You totally twisted my words! Are you a Priest or something?

I said around the time Christianity started, that was at least 200 years after christ died.

The old testament was PERFECT if interpreted the right way. It was just the stupid people trying to act out things that happened during the stories. Thake this example. If the bible said "the man shot the sheep because it was terminally ill and in pain" all the stupid would read is "he shot the sheep" and would go around shooting sheep.

Oh, and Christianity isnt so perfect either. Christians used to make sacrifices even after all the bibles had new testaments.

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars


im sorry, but tis is not a place of transformations or conversions. do that through u2u's or on bts.

sizzle,

Hope I didn't seem curt earlier.
Question for you though, do you believe in OSAS? (Once saved always saved)

Just curious. As for myself I think it's a lie from the pit. Jesus too many times made it clear that repentance was required for salvation. The Grace that Jesus allowed us to have is not a license to sin but is our 'chance' to TURN towards Him and strive for the "narrow gate". We can never be perfect in this lifetime, that is clear but I feel if you sin in knowledge, especially something that the Holy Ghost has convicted you of you will not survive that iniquity. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law, not because it was in error but because we could never live up to it.

Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

 

im sorry, but tis is not a place of transformations or conversions. do that through u2u's or on bts.

Please take a breather. I'm not trying to convert or transform anyone. Please re-read my prior post carefully.

This thread is about the Rapture right? Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of the Bible knows that it goes hand in hand with Salvation. Also, you can't really discuss the Rapture without discussing the Bible.

I don't think there is a simpler way to put that and I hope everyone here gets it.

[edit on 5-12-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars


Jesus's language was so old that it didn't have much words for different things, making it more easy to be twisted.

reply to post by shiman


What?
Sacrifices???
I've never heard of that.

There have been some VERY stupid stuff done in the name of The Church,
not necessarily for the glory of Jesus.

reply to post by shiman


shiman i apologize if you thought i was trying to convert you. that was not my intention. i had not considered whether you needed converting. that decision is entirely yours. my intent was to answer your questions the only way that i know how. and that is by life experience itself and what i interpret the bible to mean. i my self can't convert anybody. what you choose to do is your business.
but i am sorry that you misunderstood my intentions.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

 

im sorry, but tis is not a place of transformations or conversions. do that through u2u's or on bts.

Please take a breather. I'm not trying to convert or transform anyone. Please re-read my prior post carefully.

Sorry i should've read the last part, but please reword it so god doesn't sound so constricting (bad word?)

reply to post by Clearskies


Research deeper into the Christian religions past. You will find very interesting stuff. Did you know it was the Christians fault for the destruction of the alexandria library(whats the name again?) ?

reply to post by ViewFromTheStars


hi vfts, no i do not believe that once saved always saved. the bible indicates that we be careful not to fall. if it weren't possible to fall from salvation or grace, then the way i see it, is the warning would not have been given.
the bible also mentions a great falling away. so i would be rather stupid to consider OSAS.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

As for myself I think it's a lie from the pit. Jesus too many times made it clear that repentance was required for salvation. The Grace that Jesus allowed us to have is not a license to sin but is our 'chance' to TURN towards Him and strive for the "narrow gate". We can never be perfect in this lifetime, that is clear but I feel if you sin in knowledge, especially something that the Holy Ghost has convicted you of you will not survive that iniquity. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law, not because it was in error but because we could never live up to it.

That's right!
I am so tired of this luke-warm, self-satisfied doctrine.

I once went to a church and had to defend myself for praying, I told the woman arguing w/ me to read Hebrews 6.
Some christians have been partakers of the Holy Spirit and THEN turn away.

shiman, I'm not going to "reword" what the Bible says.. No offense but that's not the way I roll.

I'll respect your interpretation but don't expect me to always agree. Please realize also that "spiritual discerned" is exactly what it says.. Things that can only be discerned spiritually. What type of spiritual discernment do you feel you possess?

More stuff from the Bible.. may not like it but that's the way it is:

1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Are you a natural man?

Are you spiritually discerning?

Not really for me to answer those questions but you should ask yourself that.

reply to post by V


And you cant discuss the bible without discussing the ignorance or stupidity of people. No relations to you ViewFromTheStars.

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
shiman, I'm not going to "reword" what the Bible says.. No offense but that's not the way I roll.

I'll respect your interpretation but don't expect me to always agree. Please realize also that "spiritual discerned" is exactly what it says.. Things that can only be discerned spiritually. What type of spiritual discernment do you feel you possess?

More stuff from the Bible.. may not like it but that's the way it is:

1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Are you a natural man?

Are you spiritually discerning?

Not really for me to answer those questions but you should ask yourself that.

I ment reword

God is in control folks whether you like it or not and He is control in a way that does not violate your free will. It's hard to get your head around I know but don't forget.. He is indeed God.

Let me ask you this question.

Do you base COMPLETELY what you believe in on the misinterpretations of the bible, or on your own interpretations? Have you tried reading the arameic version?

Also, i dont know what you mean by "natural man". Please explain that part.

Originally posted by Clearskies

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars

As for myself I think it's a lie from the pit. Jesus too many times made it clear that repentance was required for salvation. The Grace that Jesus allowed us to have is not a license to sin but is our 'chance' to TURN towards Him and strive for the "narrow gate". We can never be perfect in this lifetime, that is clear but I feel if you sin in knowledge, especially something that the Holy Ghost has convicted you of you will not survive that iniquity. Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law, not because it was in error but because we could never live up to it.

That's right!
I am so tired of this luke-warm, self-satisfied doctrine.

I once went to a church and had to defend myself for praying, I told the woman arguing w/ me to read Hebrews 6.
Some christians have been partakers of the Holy Spirit and THEN turn away.

Yes, and that is a VERY dangerous place to be... partaking in the Holy Spirit then turning away.

The reason I was expounding earlier about spiritual discernment earlier is the fact that you will NEVER understand the Rapture as 'told' by the Bible if you don't have it. Where does true spiritual discernment come from? The HOLY SPIRIT!.. Take that however you want. I really don't want to say that if you don't believe in the Rapture that you don't have the Holy Spirit but perhaps he has not made it clear to you. I have read the Bible with a conviction from the Holy Spirit and believe you me, the Rapture is real.

later when I have time I will try and outline the scriptures that go along with my conviction but I have to step out for now.

reply to post by shiman


shiman it was not my intention to twist your words. to me the word christian means christ-like. or follower of Christ. and also the salvation element figures in as well. so i personally do not interpret that to mean that Christianity didn't come about until 200 years after His death. To me the salvation element entered on the day of pentecost when all the disciples were gathered in the upper room.
and no, i am not a priest. just a believer. priests are generally catholic.
i don't know why we are having such difficulty communicating to each other. but i don't mean anyone any harm or judgement. i have my own errors to work out.
someone misunderstood when i said that the old law was flawed. i didn't mean that it was in error. the flaw was, that it was pretty impossible for anyone to live up to it. that was the flaw.
i am not accusing God of making errors. He set the redemption plan into motion the moment that Adam and Eve fell from grace. it just took time for everything to fall into place. we don't always know God's purposes and timelines. but i trust that He knows what He is doing and why.