THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

reply to post by MurderCityDevil
Actually, we will be alongside my Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, when he comes to earth to establish the Millenial Kingdom when he let's loose on those who deny him and want to confront him in battle; returning from where He will have sheltered us for some years.

Zechariah 14:5

And ye shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the holy ones with thee.

Jude 1:14

And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones

Revelation 19:11-14

And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon, called Faithful and True; and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (12) And his eyes are a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems; and he hath a name written, which no one knoweth but he himself. (13) And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (14) And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and pure.

As you can see, the 144k won't vanish from the earth only to be seen instantaneously coming back in the skies with my Master. They will have spent some years on the heavenly Mt. Zion, the true Mt. Zion.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
they are on earth during the tribulation, they are not on earth for the final battle

read the whole book, geesh

they are not harmed at all during all the seals and trumpets

wow you are ridiculous

Sage advice again...

[edit on 13-12-2007 by reject]

reply to post by reject


i meant that in a sense from that verse that they are back in the sky on white horses and white robes, but they are on earth through all tribulation without being hurt

they are sealed

Originally posted by Clearskies
The Rapture is Our Blessed Hope ...

OMG .. ANOTHER rapture thread.
BTS is FLOODED with Rapture Cult stuff.

Guess what. It has been peddled as 'Our Blessed Hope' but it's not. The Rapture Cult is a FALSE non-biblical notion that started with the failed anglican priest Nelson Darby in the mid 1800s.

It's something to tickle the ears ... soul candy ... tastes great but is bad for ya'.

The Rapture Cult and the myth of Rapture have been debunked dozens of times in BTS.

reply to post by shiman

i meant if the day or month of the pridicted rapture comes and goes, then there might be mass suicides of dissapointed people.

There is no biblical based prediction of when the rapture will happen and Jesus states dozens of times that no man, angel, or even Himself in human form knows when it will occur. All those people who make claims of specific dates are not making inspired guesses because it's impossible. So, the "day" is not going to pass without the event because no day has been provided. We are told to always be ready because it will come at a time when we do not expect it to happen. Essentially, it's a surprise event.

reply to post by AshleyD


So this way, everyone will be anticipating the event for generations with no result.

Lets just hope space travel is the norm when the rapture FINALLY descends on us. That way we can leave these religious types to there impending doom and leave this planet for pastures new

reply to post by shiman


Not all Christians believe in a pretribulation or even a rapture at all. I believe we have more reasons that any other generation in the past to see the fulfillment of the end times (See: Here), but even still, many of these events refer to the Second Coming and not of a rapture. Those who believe in the pretribualtion doctrine believe we can use the same signs of Jesus' second coming and the tribulation to know the season of the rapture. I personally believe in a pretribulations but don't teach it dogmatically because we really don't know for sure.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by shiman

 

Not all Christians believe in a pretribulation or even a rapture at all.

There is no such a thing Rapture in Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church and traditional Protestant Churches.

reply to post by cloakndagger



The Rapture is a ChristStains WetDream.

There will be "God's People" on earth in those days and God will shelter them under his hand.

Fear Nothing!

Those that wait for "the rapture" wait in vanity. They wait in vain. That's uncool and ungoddly.

The Rapture is SIN.

It is superimposing personal free will belief systems over the reality of the will of God.

(Waiting for Rapture? Enjoy Hell.)

Originally posted by Incarnated
The Rapture is SIN...

Enjoy Hell.

I'm sorry but that is not remotely who God is. He is not going to send people to Hell because they can't wait to be with Him and hope for a pretribulation rapture. It's horrible to claim God is going to send those that love Him to Hell because they misunderstood a doctrine related to Bible prophecy.

And then you smile about it? Come on. I love my Christian brothers and sisters even when we disagree. I wouldn't smile about Hitler going to Hell nevertheless a fellow believer who loves God as much as I do. What the heck? Is your heart in the right place?

And for the record, Jesus Himself explicitly promised a posttribulation rapture. Some also hope that there will be a pretribualtion rapture after putting the prophetic puzzle pieces together. They might be wrong but there is no way God would cast them out of His presence for that.

[edit on 1/9/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by Vojvoda
There is no such a thing Rapture in Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church and traditional Protestant Churches.

What about a postribulation rapture? I agree that the pretribulation doctrine is speculation but a rapturing of the saints prior to the second coming is guaranteed by Jesus Himself.

As for me, I hope and patiently wait. If there is one, great! If not, we can count the days until He returns.

reply to post by AshleyD



yes yes, the "enjoy Hell" was sarcaism. I don't believe in hell as christians do.

However you said "send the people who love God". I'd like to point out they are NOT the people that love God. They are the people that love themselves so much they they project their own fastioning of God's will and what "God Is" onto their idol of "God". They don't Love God. They Love their Idol Of God. They are the ones that think they know God, but they don't. They think they Love God, but they don't. They love their Idols Of God, thusly they love themselves and not God.

To be fair, it should be understood that is an extream perception of the case.

However there are too many whom think they love god, but really only love idols. An Idol can thusly be defined as a person's choice of projecting their personal, and sinful, will upon the charactor of a "god" rather then the knowing of the Truth of the Creator Father.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by Vojvoda
There is no such a thing Rapture in Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic Church and traditional Protestant Churches.

What about a postribulation rapture?What about a postribulation rapture? I agree that the pretribulation doctrine is speculation but a rapturing of the saints prior to the second coming is guaranteed by Jesus Himself.

As for me, I hope and patiently wait. If there is one, great! If not, we can count the days until He returns.

Ok, English is not my mother tongue, so I typed in Google to see about what you talk. And here's the answer:

Therefore, it is imperative that we are clear about what we do know about the last days, and what the testimony of Holy Scripture is. First, we know and affirm that Christ will return physically in glory, Acts 1.11, Matthew 25.31, and Luke 18.8. Second, we know that the day and hour of His return is unknown, Mark 13.32. Third, we know that when the Lord returns, He will judge every human being according to their works, Matthew 25.31-46, and Romans 2.6-10. Finally, we confess that Christ’s kingdom will have no end, Luke 1.33, and the Nicene Creed. We also know that prior to the Last Day, two events will occur: first, there will be a general falling away, or apostasy; second, the Anti-Christ will be revealed, 2 Thessalonians 2.3-4.

In Holy Scripture, it is also clear that tribulations will precede the Second Coming. These events will be endured by both the righteous and the unsaved. We read in Matthew 24.21-22, “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.” In Mark 13.19-23, we read, “For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will be. And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days. And then if any one says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But take heed; I have told you all things beforehand.” Scripture tells us in plain language that the elect, the righteous, will not be “raptured or caught up” with the Lord before the general tribulation. In direct contradiction to the teaching of the rapture, Scripture tells us that the period of tribulation will be shortened precisely for the elect so that they might endure until the end.

So, there is neither postribulation rapture.

Originally posted by Vojvoda
So, there is neither postribulation rapture.

No offense but what you just quoted indeed referred to a postribulation rapture. lol

Check out:
Matthew 24:31
I Corinthians 15:51-52
I Thessalonians 4:15-18

That is most definitely a rapture. I'm not going to get into the pretribulation and postribulation rapture debate as it has been done to death but there will most definitely be a rapture.

The transliterated Greek word harpazo is found in the original New Testament which means "caught up" or "taken up" and the Latin word rapturo is the word used in the Latin Vulgate translated from the original Greek. That is where we get our modern word used to describe the rapture.

reply to post by AshleyD


Ill rephrase that. Everyone believing that the rapture will happen will be waiting and waiting and nothing will happen.

Matthew 16:1-5
1 The Pharisees and Sadducees came up, and testing Jesus, they asked Him to show them a sign from heaven. 2 But He replied to them, “When it is evening, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.’ 3 “And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times? 4 “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.
Mark 8:11-12
11The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven.12He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it."

Originally posted by Clearskies
When Paul the apostle spoke of it, he said (Philippians:3 13) "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

Paul's use of "high calling" is in the Greek Harpazio, or 'catching away'

The greek word for calling in this pasage is in fact Klesis, which means literally that, calling, an invitation. Paul calls it a calling of God. It was what Jesus was talking about when he said...

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The are many verses talking about being called to be saints, and the calling by which people come to God.

Originally posted by Clearskies
The same term for Rapture as in 1 THESSALONIANS "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up( same 'catching away) together with in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Unlike the previous passage, this passage does use the term "snatched up" (harpazo) but this is talking about the first resurrection at the return of Christ, at the last trumpet of the seventh seal, the end of the tribulation.
Revelation 20 even talks about those who are part of the first resurrection who were beheaded for not worshipping the beast or recieving his mark etc, so they did indeed go through tribulation....

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Another passage is,
1 CORINTHIANS 15: 51"Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Again this shows this happens at the last trumpet which is at the end of the seventh seal, and since it is talking of people being resurrected, this must be at best part of the first resurrection, which happens at the end of the tribulation.

I don't know why people want to run and hide during the tribulation, shouldn't we rather want to be be right here, doing what we can to help others, even if that means we have to suffer ourselves. Remember....

1Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

2Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

ACTS 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

The Apostles rejoiced at the opportunity to suffer for his name, shouldn't we think likewise?

[edit on 13/5/08 by doctorex]

reply to post by luxor311


The countdown to end time events, The Rapture, seven year tribulation, and ultimately the revealing, second coming of Christ to set up his everlasting Kingdom here on earth, couldn't start until the Jewish people reclaimed their homeland in 1948. The Bible predicted this would happen in one day and it did in May 1948 by the United Nations! The Bible also adds that the generation that witnessed that event would not pass before the end time events would begin in rapid succession. Believe or not is anyone's choice, but the Bible is full of prophecy's and has been accurate so far. I believe and am proud to claim Christianity as my faith!

BUMPED due to this subject coming up in another thread.