THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by Clearskies

 

Please can you tell me what is exactly the Rapture and where did it originate?
If you don’t mind..thank you.
I live in a small village here in Germany and the priest from the village tolled me that Rapture is an American invention from excessive interpretation.

Kacou

My pleasure Dispensationalism

See how long this has been a belief system, was it around during Christ, No was it around when the Council of Nicea put the bible together in it's generally its current form, NO Was it around 400 years ago, NO

reply to post by LDragonFire


Thank you for your input.
I am no Christian or follow any other religion.
That don’t prevent me to have some very good discussion with religious people.
This is exactly what the priest in my village said about the Rapture. A man invention.
So how do you count so many follower of this fable?

kacou

Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by LDragonFire

 

Thank you for your input.
I am no Christian or follow any other religion.
That don’t prevent me to have some very good discussion with religious people.
This is exactly what the priest in my village said about the Rapture. A man invention.
So how do you count so many follower of this fable?

kacou

There was some type of meeting in 1906 but at the moment I can't recall the name, before this little get together, the teaching of Dispensationalism, was not wide spread, but after 1906 it was common, it offers a way out, it is pallet able, a nicer version of what the bible actually teaches, it's easy to believe. But in the end It's false.

Then years latter came the books and movies, ect. many in the faith are beginning to question this or just not believe this doctrine, it thats what you want to call it.

Whenever faith is in trouble in Christianity, we are going to find deviations of believes to keep the faithfull hopeful.

That is why when a new sign, pictures in the walls, tribulations, revelations, end of days or raptures comes to be, the flock will follow in the hopes that is all related to God and that he has no forgotten the chosen ones.

I call it hoax.

reply to post by LDragonFire


What I am baffled with, not only me here but many in Europe, is how can people call them self true lover of Jesus when they go against the original teaching. If you go to Spain or Italy, to mention only this country, you will find a very strong core of Christian believer that have no notion of end of days or rapture. Actually if you got to mention this stuff to them they will call the medic for you.
Don’t think is something very wrong the way religions have been use to deceive people that are vulnerable.
You see, I think is a thread about banning Scientology from Germany, last Sunday I have discussion about this with some folks here in the village. They all agreed that it is the responsibility of the community to help the vulnerable people before they get court by predators like cult.
I am sure that the government will soon ban them from Germany.

Kacou

Originally posted by luxor311
The "Rapture" has already happened. Sorry you missed the bus.

And when was that? Jamestown?

reply to post by Clearskies


Skip the man-devised wrong interpretations of 1 Cor. 15:51-54 and backtrack to that same chapter, :23-24 and then WAAAY back to Matthew 24:15-35.

NOTICE: First, Jesus Christ mentions the Tribulation. Then, He mentions what is commonly called the "Rapture". Then, in verse 35, He mentions that His Words shall not pass away.

Take special notice of verses 29-31. The only mention of the "Rapture". The same in Mark 13. And Luke 21:28 mentions even more so.

And as for Luke 21:36: Ever heard of dying?

Compare what is written there also to the Revelation of Jesus Christ to the Apostle John:

1. The Mark.

2. The Second Coming of Christ.
The Thousand Years Reign.
satan finally destroyed.

3. The Father comes with the New Jerusalem.

God's Word is easy to read. Mankind needs to make its understanding difficult- that way they can sell you uncertain salvation, as the Catholics do.

Originally posted by cloakndagger
Well if there is a Rapture then I call shotgun.

Only for those who belong to Jesus Christ...

O.K.,

I used to believe that there would be no rapture, after listening to a certain preacher.
But, what I couldn't understand was why Jesus would command us to look for him if the antichrist and and the tribulation happened first.

I fasted for three days and asked Jesus to give me understanding on this teaching.
He did!
He directed me to Revelation, where he told the Philadelphia church that they would escape, because of their faithfulness.

Revelation 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

He then rebukes the Laodicean church. Then, in Revelation 4, we see the Rapture
The Trump.
The 'catching up'.
Followed by the Seven seal judgements.
The tribulation.

A clue to the Rapture is when Jesus said that the last days would be as the days of Noah and Lot.
What happened to them?
They were removed Before the Judgement!

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Clearskies]

reply to post by cloakndagger


To be born-again, all you have to do is tell God you believe in His Son, and ask Jesus to forgive you. With Sincerity. That's All!
Jesus will do the rest.

The whole "Rapture" bit is nothing more than escapism at its worse.. It's a false hope that people like La Haye has chosen to make a profit off of; you know the whole Left Behind garbage

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The whole "Rapture" bit is nothing more than escapism at its worse.. It's a false hope that people like La Haye has chosen to make a profit off of; you know the whole Left Behind garbage

I've never read them, though, I saw a couple of movies someone gave me.

My mind was made up WAYYY before he wrote those.

What is 'escapism'?
Escaping Hell?
Escaping your own sinful nature?


[edit on 4-12-2007 by Clearskies]

People wish for a "Rapture" because they fear what is to come and somehow think they are worthy of escaping it. They aren't and they won't.. We will ALL experience the "burning" of our flesh, skin cancer... We will ALL experience the natural disasters to come... We will ALL experience the wars to come... We will be cleansed by God's wrath for if we're not, there will be no salvation for any one.






[edit on 4-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

All men must be cleansed by the wrath of God in order for God's plan to be fulfilled... "It is God's will that NO MAN be lost."

Luke 3:6 "ALL flesh shall see the SALVATION of GOD."

[edit on 4-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by LDragonFire

There was some type of meeting in 1906 but at the moment I can't recall the name, before this little get together, the teaching of Dispensationalism, was not wide spread, but after 1906 it was common, it offers a way out, it is pallet able, a nicer version of what the bible actually teaches, it's easy to believe. But in the end It's false.

Then years latter came the books and movies, ect. many in the faith are beginning to question this or just not believe this doctrine, it thats what you want to call it.

It was the Asusa Street Revival. (I hope the name is spelt correctly). And later on, heretics and hypocrites abused it as foundation for the Vineyard, Manifest Sons of God, Toronto Blessing et. al.

Originally posted by Clearskies

A clue to the Rapture is when Jesus said that the last days would be as the days of Noah and Lot.
What happened to them?
They were removed Before the Judgement!

[edit on 4-12-2007 by Clearskies]

What Bible version do you use? I use the KJV, old-style.

Matthew 24:37-39; Luke 17:26-30:

The only logical conclusion I make, is that this World is to end on the day of the "Rapture" (interestingly, I cannot find this word in Scripture...). When Noah went into the Ark, the World was destroyed by water. When Lot left Sodom and Gomorrah, the four cities were destroyed by fire and brimstone. Note: nobody was left alive.

So if it is going to be as in the days of Noah and Lot, who is going to be left for the Tribulation after God has judged the World in Fire?

Don't read the words to know what is written: read and compare to understand.

reply to post by J.Smit

I Only use the
King James Version with the Strong's Concordance.

How long did it take Lot and his family to trek out of Sodom before the fire and brimstone fell?
How long were Noah and his family in the ark before the flood.

This judgement is slightly different than those, in that The Strong delusion of the antichrist is the first seal of 7. Along with the 7 vials and 7 bowls.

We're not talking about a out-and-out decimation of people, but, a progressive worsening, followed by Armageddon.

Also, Genesis 7:10
says "And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth."

Reference to seven years Tribulation.


[edit on 4-12-2007 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Clearskies
Isaia 26:19-21,

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."

It sounds like TV reruns to me. Television constantly allows the dead to be seen and heard as if they were alive. Good advice on hiding from them until they're gone, too.

poetry is forcing me...

The prediction of chaos
the worlds gonna end
thats what they tell us
over and over again

I wont be afraid
we wont leave this place
and when 2012 is paid
I'l be laughing in your face

peace out

The Fallacy of a Pre-Tribulational Rapture

It is necessary to disprove an eschatology accretion which has surfaced and become deeply entrenched within the Church over the last two hundred years; for we cannot possibly reconcile its current assertions with the Word of God, and remain Christians of integrity when it comes to the honest approach to, treatment of, and rightly dividing of what we commonly call today, scripture.

The current eschatological majority trend in Fundamental and Evangelical circles, is to assert that the Church will not go through the tribulation, but that it will be raptured out of this world prior to the onset of the tribulation period, whether it be at three and a half, or seven years prior. The supporting arguments rest upon the interpretation of several portions of scripture which seem to state that God has not appointed us to wrath, but unto salvation, which I basically have no argument with. The problem I have is with the application of this doctrine, its imposition upon scripture, and the fact that it is used to imply that the Church will not go through the tribulation, and that it is plied accordingly to bolster this argument which flies in the face of other passages of scripture which clearly indicate the opposite. I believe the error is in assuming that the events of the tribulation period are the wrath of God, when for all intents and purposes they are the wrath of Satan, and are actually occurrances used to sift and purify the people of God for a Church without spot or wrinkle, and to prepare the Jews for acceptance of their true Messiah. Part of the solution to this ostensibly unresolveable dilemma is a re-examination of those portions of scripture relative to the second coming of Christ, and in doing this, I believe that most of the conflict and perplexing confusion will be eradicated.

In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter twenty-four, verse twelve, Jesus states, ”And because sin shall abound, the love of many shall grow cold.” The context is the tribulation period at the end of the age. Jesus is the one making this statement as a part of his over-all picture of the end times in answer to his disciple’s inquiry. The topic is persecution, iniquity, betrayal, and deception in unprecedented quantity: And yes, there will be believers in the world at that time. "The love (AGAPE) of the many will grow cold" sets the reference of this passage to believers - probably the same event as the great apostasy, or the falling away from the Church of 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 - for only believers are capable of divine AGAPE love; and it has caught the notice of God in order for it to be mentioned here. "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved," Matthew 24:13. This is not salvation by works of love, but an indication of the possibility and danger of falling away from The Faith under the pressure of persecution as per 2nd Thessalonians 2:3. In the parable of the sower and the seed, this factor is aptly indicated as a possibility for the people of God (Mt 13:1-23). [See also Appendix "C" - "Falling Away from The Faith."]

In examining your Bible, note that the context of Matthew chapter 24, from verse four all the way to fourteen, clearly indicates that it is directed towards those Christians who are in the tribulation. Jesus warns against deception, vss 4-5 and 11; warns of persecution and betrayal, vss 9-10; warns against losing one’s love and falling away, vss 12-13; and tells that this Gospel of the kingdom (Jesus is the King, where the King is there is the kingdom, therefore it is the Gospel of Jesus.) would be preached to the whole world as a witness to all nations before the end comes - and this is not Revelation 14:6-7. The apostle Paul says in Galatians that if any, even an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel than the one he preached, let him be accursed. There is only one Gospel. The Evangelicals would have you to believe that the Gospel mentioned there is of the kingdom as opposed to the Gospel of salvation. Also they would have you to believe that in Matthew 24, Jesus is addressing Jews who will be persecuted during the tribulation, and not Christians; and some even say that they are those who became Christians after the rapture during the tribulation period; but what Jew will ever listen to Jesus unless he becomes born anew? How can there be Spirit-filled born anew believers if the "Restrainer (e.g. the Holy Spirit) that is taken out of the way" has left with the Church? [2nd Thess. 2:7]. Would God allow them to face intense persecution without indwelling empowerment? No, these are the Church, along with Israel, concurrently going through the tribulation together until Jesus comes and delivers them on the last day [John 6:54], and that which is removed is not the Holy Spirit, but that which has impeded the coming of the deceiving man of sin from making his debute. Jesus said, “If they hated me, they will hate you also.” There would be no persecution and betrayal without Spirit-filled, blood-bought believers to persecute and betray. Verses fifteen to twenty-seven of Matthew are a recapitulation concerning the preceding time that was just covered, and that interlude is again followed by the resumption of the narrative in verse twenty-nine as left off from verse fourteen.

Keep Wishing