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THE RAPTURE: The Greatest Upheaval of Nature

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posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by shiman

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
shiman, I'm not going to "reword" what the Bible says.. No offense but that's not the way I roll.

I'll respect your interpretation but don't expect me to always agree. Please realize also that "spiritual discerned" is exactly what it says.. Things that can only be discerned spiritually. What type of spiritual discernment do you feel you possess?

More stuff from the Bible.. may not like it but that's the way it is:

1co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Are you a natural man?

Are you spiritually discerning?

Not really for me to answer those questions but you should ask yourself that.


I ment reword


God is in control folks whether you like it or not and He is control in a way that does not violate your free will. It's hard to get your head around I know but don't forget.. He is indeed God.


Let me ask you this question.

Do you base COMPLETELY what you believe in on the misinterpretations of the bible, or on your own interpretations? Have you tried reading the arameic version?

Also, i dont know what you mean by "natural man". Please explain that part.


Misinterpretations as per WHO?

I'm going to ask you a question again and this is not rhetorical..

Going by 1 Corinthians 2:14..

Do you interpret the Bible "naturally" or "spiritually"?

How would you know the difference?

The Bible makes it perfectly clear in no uncertain terms that "natural" men will NEVER understand the Bible.

Ok.. that's it for now. Got to run but will try and stick this thread.



[edit on 5-12-2007 by ViewFromTheStars]




posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by shiman
 


shiman it was not my intention to twist your words. to me the word christian means christ-like. or follower of Christ. and also the salvation element figures in as well. so i personally do not interpret that to mean that Christianity didn't come about until 200 years after His death. To me the salvation element entered on the day of pentecost when all the disciples were gathered in the upper room.
and no, i am not a priest. just a believer. priests are generally catholic.
i don't know why we are having such difficulty communicating to each other. but i don't mean anyone any harm or judgement. i have my own errors to work out.
someone misunderstood when i said that the old law was flawed. i didn't mean that it was in error. the flaw was, that it was pretty impossible for anyone to live up to it. that was the flaw.
i am not accusing God of making errors. He set the redemption plan into motion the moment that Adam and Eve fell from grace. it just took time for everything to fall into place. we don't always know God's purposes and timelines. but i trust that He knows what He is doing and why.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by sizzle
reply to post by shiman
 


shiman it was not my intention to twist your words. to me the word christian means christ-like. or follower of Christ. and also the salvation element figures in as well. so i personally do not interpret that to mean that Christianity didn't come about until 200 years after His death. To me the salvation element entered on the day of pentecost when all the disciples were gathered in the upper room.
and no, i am not a priest. just a believer. priests are generally catholic.
i don't know why we are having such difficulty communicating to each other. but i don't mean anyone any harm or judgement. i have my own errors to work out.
someone misunderstood when i said that the old law was flawed. i didn't mean that it was in error. the flaw was, that it was pretty impossible for anyone to live up to it. that was the flaw.
i am not accusing God of making errors. He set the redemption plan into motion the moment that Adam and Eve fell from grace. it just took time for everything to fall into place. we don't always know God's purposes and timelines. but i trust that He knows what He is doing and why.


I got what you meant by flawed. The new testament was created about 200 years after jesus's death. That can be flawed. Adam and eve fell from grace? Adam was created out of dirt and eve out of one of Adams ribs. at leas READ the old testament before criticizing it.

People like me help other people figure out their flaws, and people like you help me figure out my flaws. It goes hand in hand.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by ViewFromTheStars
 


I mean the christians interpretation as wrong and twisted.

how do you know your way is better?

Naturally as in i know everything in the world? No

Spiritually as in... what?



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by shiman
 


shiman i was not criticizing the old testament. and yes i am aware that Adam was formed from the dust of the ground. but immediately after that according to the bible that I read, God breathed His breath of life into Adam.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by sizzle
 


Still doesnt make him a fallen angel.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by shiman
 


now you have misunderstood what I said. i never said that Adam was a fallen angel. i said that he fell from grace when sin entered in. adam wasn't an angel to begin with. so he could not possibly be a fallen angel. my interpretation of the word fallen, in this particular reference, means something like what we call sin. God still loved adam. and eve.
i guess i am not very good at this, so i think i will go find something else to read. thanks for listening everyone. later.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by sizzle
 


you cant fall from grace without being an angel



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by shiman
 


shiman i just realized that it was probably rude to leave without waiting for your response. as far as your statement about not being able to fall from grace unless you are an angel. i will look into that. i don't know everything. i learn something new everyday.
i think what i was basically trying to say about adam (without splitting hairs) is that he fell into sin. sorry if i did say something in error. but thank you for giving me food for thought. i will look into that and if i am wrong i will be more careful in my wording next time.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 08:04 PM
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To understand this Biblical term, it is necessary to understand that there are TWO BIRTHS. The "first" birth is the PHYSICAL BIRTH when you were born into this world from your mother and father. When the Bible speaks of being "born of water," it is speaking about the physical birth (NOT baptism). The "second" birth is a SPIRITUAL BIRTH, which means to be born of the "Spirit" (God's Holy Spirit). This raises a couple of questions: Why does a person need to be born spiritually?...and, What is a "spiritual" birth?

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." -2nd Corinthians 5:17

There are a few things you must know to be saved:

You are a sinner under the condemnation of God's Law (Romans 3:10,23).

You are GUILTY, and deserve to go to Hellfire as punishment for your sins (Romans 3:19; 6:23; Revelation 21:8).

Jesus Christ, God in the flesh (God's Son), died upon the cross to pay for your sins (John 3:16-18; Romans 5:8). It is Jesus' blood that takes our sins away (1st John 1:7).
If you believe that Jesus is the Savior (the Christ) who paid for your sins, and you realize your sinful condition (and thus your need for a Savior), then you're ready to be born again. All you need to do is repent (i.e., turn) to Jesus Christ in faith, believing upon Him to forgive your sins and save you... "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." You may pray if you'd like, but you don't have to. Salvation is of the heart (Romans 10:10). If you'd like to pray, simply ask Jesus to forgive your sins and tell Him that you're trusting Him as your Savior. It matters not exactly what you pray, just as long as you realize these two main truths:

1. You are a guilty sinner under the condemnation of God's Law!

2. Jesus is the Savior who shed His blood to take away your sins!

You might pray something like this...

Dear Jesus, I know that I am a Hell-deserving sinner. I believe that you are the Son of God, the Savior, who shed your blood to pay for my sins. I now believe upon You as my personal Savior, and ask you to please forgive me of all my sins. Please save me and take me to Heaven when I die. Amen.

If you sincerely asked Jesus to forgive your sins, then you are now part of God's family. You could have just prayed, "God be merciful to me a sinner." The thief on the cross simply asked Jesus to "remember" him, and Jesus most certainly did. There is nothing "magic" about the words you pray, it is your faith (trust) in Jesus Christ that saves you. It is your faith that causes you to call upon Jesus to forgive your sins and take you to Heaven. God wants to save you more than you could ever want to be saved (2nd Peter 3:9). If you were sincere, then you are now a born-again Christian.










reply to post by cloakndagger
 



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Angels "fell" from their first estate to a rebellious one. Man fell by deception. Angels cannot get "saved" because they defied God in the rebellion. Man can receive "grace" and be "saved" through Christ.

The Tribulation is not the wrath, but the persecution and torment of Christian believers in an anti-Christian anti-God world. The "great tribulation" is a time where this gets really intense. The wrath is God judgment on a Godless world upon all who will worship the "beast", who take his mark. Christians, that is, the ones who actually follow the Gospel, will not be here on the Earth when God pours out His wrath. But then, there is the Possibility that they might all be in Israel. One thought is that when Christ returns we are caught up to meet him in the air. But the scripture also says that He will set His feet upon the mount of Olives. Noah had an Ark, and Lot had a cave, and maybe the Christians will have a city called Jerusalem. It's may be a possibility. It will take a lot of studying.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


Whoa there. I dont have time to grab my bible right know, but isnt one of the steps to salvation being not so negative? its like your yelling angry things at people.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by Clearskies
 



Please can you tell me what is exactly the Rapture and where did it originate?
Kacou


Kacou, if you will go to the site shown below, I'm sure that it will answer all your questions concerning the rapture.

www.bibleprophecytruth.com...



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by shiman
reply to post by ViewFromTheStars
 


Jesus's language was so old that it didn't have much words for different things, making it more easy to be twisted.


Im sorry but this is possibly the most ignorant statement I have seen. Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic. He lived within a Roman controlled area. The main or common language spoken was koine greek. The word "Koine" means "common"; it is not a bad designation, therefore, for a language which was a common medium of exchange for diverse peoples. The Koine, then is the Greek world language that prevailed from about 300 B.C. to the close of ancient history at about A.D. 500.

If you want to deride somebody, please make sure you have your facts straight. Since this uninformed post you made, you have constantly called Christians stupid among many other things. Please refrain from these comments as they do nothing to further your cause, but cast you in an otherwise negative light.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Arkanjel
 


hi arkanjel, just wanted to thank you for this information. that's very enlightening. i guess i never stopped and thought about the exact language that Jesus used. in my head he speaks english. lol



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by ReginaAdonna
Stop and take a look around you. We're already in the midst of the Tribulation my friend. It won't be long before the hourglass is completely empty.


One Truth

The Tribulation hasn't started yet. There are a few that will happen at the beginning of it that haven't happened yet. We are still in the "wars and rumors of war" verses before the start of the Tribulation.

The one clear, unambiguous event at the start of the Tribulation is a 7 year treaty between Israel and an entity controlled by the world system or person known as the Anti-Christ. So far Israel has not had a 7 year treaty with anyone.

Anyone who reads Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 will find that Jesus returns to gather the elect after the Tribulation. The Left Behind series is just bad science fiction, based on taking verses out of context and wishful thinking that was invented in the 1800's.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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"End of the world" and Rapture: around 2012
Raptors: Aliens of human appearance
Raptured: Those who are "good enough" to build the next human era. Most of them are already marked by them (Book of Life)
Tribulation: Those not chosen and basically left to die and kill each other.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by TheOracle
 


hi oracle, interesting name. are you a seer or a prophet or is that just a name you chose? i also wanted to ask you about the timeline of 2012 that you gave. if you don't mind.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by tgambill
The rapture or "gathering of souls" is an old concept even mentioned in the Old Testament. All throught the Bible the Rapture is mentioned. It is called "a gathering"; Harvest....The term Rapture is relatively new, but not the event.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by cloakndagger
 



In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus clearly places the "gathering of the elect" after the Tribulation.



posted on Dec, 5 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
"End of the world" and Rapture: around 2012

I think some time between 2014 and 2030. We are still at least 7 years away.



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