Bush/Cheney impeachment resolution passes at lawyers convention, page 6

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reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 01:38 PM by traderonwallst

reply to post by Griff

Maybe I should pull a Clinton and ask in the definition of torture.... Just what does the word "is" mean in the question what "is" torture?

I bet if we took a poll on here there would be lots of people with different ideas of what just torture is. Waterboarding is not torture...if it means saving the lives of innocent people. My opinion and I am willing to take my flogging for saying so. If we captured an alleged terrorist with 4 bombs who was carrying a case that holds 5 bombs....I would be in favor of any torture necessary to get the information out of him where that 5th bomb was. (And I bet a lot of others would agree, but won't admit it)

Sorry, thats how I feel.....
Now flog away!

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 01:42 PM by Griff

reply to post by traderonwallst

Huh?

Bush signs torture bill; Americans lose essential freedom

www.sfgate.com.../&entry_id=9952

That's not blatant enough for you?

WASHINGTON -- When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief.

www.boston.com...

How about that one?

I swear. The man could be video taped firing the fatal shot in a killing and you guys would still be defending him.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 01:47 PM by Griff

Originally posted by centurion1211
"writers" not "writters"?

Sorry for drinking too much coffee and hitting the T key twice.

Should I edit it for those of you who have trouble understanding what the meaning of words are even when they are slightly misspelled?

Oh, and BTW, a sure sign of someone who is loosing a debate is ad homonem attacks.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by Griff]

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 01:51 PM by Griff

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Sorry, thats how I feel.....
Now flog away!

Then you are no better than the people who you hate.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:04 PM by centurion1211

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by centurion1211
"writers" not "writters"?

Sorry for drinking too much coffee and hitting the T key twice.

Should I edit it for those of you who have trouble understanding what the meaning of words are even when they are slightly misspelled?

Oh, and BTW, a sure sign of someone who is loosing a debate is ad homonem attacks.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by Griff]

You're right, I should have left that off my post. But only because it gave you an excuse to ignore the rest of what I wrote. Something you most likey had no answer for, or you would have posted a response based on that..

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:05 PM by traderonwallst

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by traderonwallst

Huh?

Bush signs torture bill; Americans lose essential freedom

www.sfgate.com.../&entry_id=9952

That's not blatant enough for you?

WASHINGTON -- When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief.

www.boston.com...

How about that one?

I swear. The man could be video taped firing the fatal shot in a killing and you guys would still be defending him.

"Bush signs torture bill". Is that what the Bill says, or is that the press calling the kettle black? Come on.......symantics is everything to media. The power of the pen is mightier that the sword. Don't fall for brain washing kool-aid trying to be spoonfed by the media. You are smarter than that.

"When President Bush last week signed the bill outlawing the torture of detainees, he quietly reserved the right to bypass the law under his powers as commander in chief" -- Now, that sure sounds like an opinion of the journalist (and I use that term loosely), doesn't it?

This is a circular conversation.....It can on for hours like this. I gues Bill Clinton was smarter than we all thought with the basic question.....just what does that word "is" mean?????? Is it torture????? Is it right to abuse 1 person to save the life of thousands? IMO .... YES.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:07 PM by traderonwallst

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Sorry, thats how I feel.....
Now flog away!

Then you are no better than the people who you hate.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

In times of war........those who fight dirty win. Why should I be any better than those who I hate? The terrorists would just as easy and quickly cut the head off of an American in the wrong place at the wrong time.....Richard Pearl (journalist). So please.......Don't berate me for how I feel about who we are fighting a war against. May they all rot in the hell.......the terrorists, not all muslims.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by traderonwallst]

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:12 PM by Griff

Originally posted by centurion1211
You're right, I should have left that off my post. But only because it gave you an excuse to ignore the rest of what I wrote. Something you most likey had no answer for, or you would have posted a response based on that..

Actually i agree with most of the rest of your post. That's why I didn't say anything.

Like I've been saying all along.

I don't care if it's republican or democrat. IMO they are both corrupt at the top levels.

But, again, this thread is about Bush and Cheney.

And if people feel that congress is so bad, maybe more people should vote every 2 years? If you don't like what they are doing, do something yourself and vote these bosos out. Not directed at you centurion.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:36 PM by Griff

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Don't berate me for how I feel about who we are fighting a war against. May they all rot in the hell.......the terrorists, not all muslims.

First. I didn't mean to berate you. if I came off that way, please accept my apology.

The thing is though that the terrorists think the same as you but from the opposite end. So, where does it stop? Are they any worse than us when we use terror to justify the ends? Are they any better? IMO, neither are better than the other.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 02:49 PM by traderonwallst

Originally posted by Griff

The thing is though that the terrorists think the same as you but from the opposite end. So, where does it stop? Are they any worse than us when we use terror to justify the ends? Are they any better? IMO, neither are better than the other.

So your telling me.....if you had the opportunity to save the life of 1,000 by torturing 1 terrorist, who showed up at an event with a case carrying explosives and 1 was missing......YOU WOULD NOT???? I am not thinking like a terrorist. A terrorist does things solely to kill...and to create fear. Thats what they do. I am not going around blowing up cafe's or flying planes into buildings, I leave that to terrorists. What I do condone is waterboarding that person found with the bomb to save the life of others. I condone beating him to within an inch of his life if it saves the lives of others. Call me what you will, names don't hurt me. I am not recommending killing anyone for the sole purpose of extinguishing a life because they do not believe as I do OR trying to create fear.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:00 PM by Griff

reply to post by traderonwallst

Question:

Do you then condone torture for suspected terrorists? Who just might be innocent?

BTW, I have yet to hear of reliable intel given from torture.

Remember the Salem witch trials? Do you think those people were actually witches? Or do you believe they were forced into a confession?

IMO torture rarely gets you the desired affect of truthfulness.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by Griff]

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:11 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by jtma508

Sometimes, things are exactly as they seem. Does complicating things make them seem more credible?

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:15 PM by BlueRaja

reply to post by Griff

Did you consider that intel can be corroborated to see how credible it is or not. That's why you use multi source means to get a more accurate picture, cross referencing with other HUMINT, ELINT, COMINT, IMINT, etc..

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:17 PM by BlueRaja

Originally posted by Griff
[

The thing is though that the terrorists think the same as you but from the opposite end. So, where does it stop? Are they any worse than us when we use terror to justify the ends? Are they any better? IMO, neither are better than the other.

How is taking on/out terrorists even remotely the same as random taking of life for the sole purpose of creating fear and chaos?

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:28 PM by ZeroGhost

To do this right we would have to add both houses to that list.

I's not just two apples that are rotten, it's the dang whole tree, including the puppets in the wings.

Now the "prezident" and the "Pent-r-gone" are threatening our troops if they don't get the billions they want to wage an illegal war for private billionares.

Holding our brave young men and women's lives over our head while asking for money we don't have, with all the critical domestic needs for injured military personnel and families with losses, education and support for our needy, and, why the heck are we not using this money to develop new technology to get the Oil Monkey off our back?

All the apples are bad. No more musical chairs for the "Evil Party".

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:54 PM by Griff

Originally posted by BlueRaja
How is taking on/out terrorists even remotely the same as random taking of life for the sole purpose of creating fear and chaos?

Isn't the point to instil fear and chaos to the terrorist orginazations? If not, I must have missed it.

I'm all for stopping terrorism. But, IMO, lowering ourselves to bloody torture is not the high road. Again. Must just be my opinion.

All you Muslim haters out there. I'm sure you're probably Christian. Ask yourself "What would Jesus do". Weep I'm sure.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 03:58 PM by traderonwallst

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by traderonwallst

Question:

Do you then condone torture for suspected terrorists? Who just might be innocent?

BTW, I have yet to hear of reliable intel given from torture.

Remember the Salem witch trials? Do you think those people were actually witches? Or do you believe they were forced into a confession?

IMO torture rarely gets you the desired affect of truthfulness.

[edit on 11/29/2007 by Griff]

What "is" a suspected terrorist? What did he/she do get that label. I can't answer that question until I know all the facts. See, its so much easier to arrive at an answer when all the facts are accounted for. Thats why I used the example of a terrorist as someone caught with 4 bombs in a case that made to hold 5 bombs. I condoned torture for that, because I assume ( I know what I said earlier, but this would be a safe assumpiton) 1 bomb is missing.

You then go and compare that to the Salem Witch trials.......nonsense made up by dilusional CHILDREN. Have you ever heard of the US government torturing someone based on the word of a child? Come on, you have to come up with a better example than that.

Time to go home. Will catch up with ya later Griff.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 04:03 PM by plaetorian

reply to post by traderonwallst

you know why you should be different? cuz you have ethics, morals, principals, you are educated, and you believe you religion is better directed. YOU ARE A DEVELOPED COUNTRY, by a matter of fact, as many say the world's best country so be an example. Dont ask for peace if you gonna go do what they do. Thats irrational and absurd.

reply posted on 29-11-2007 @ 07:01 PM by centurion1211

Originally posted by plaetorian
reply to post by traderonwallst

you know why you should be different? cuz you have ethics, morals, principals, you are educated, and you believe you religion is better directed. YOU ARE A DEVELOPED COUNTRY, by a matter of fact, as many say the world's best country so be an example. Dont ask for peace if you gonna go do what they do. Thats irrational and absurd.

Trouble is that history has proven over and over again that turning the other cheek, taking the high road, etc. accomplishes exactly squat when you are dealing with what are basically barbarians. Especially those that are happy to die for their cause and the more the merrier as far as how many infidels they take along with them.