Bush/Cheney impeachment resolution passes at lawyers convention

Out Of Left Field

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Majic, is being left-wing a bad thing? Is being right-wing a bad thing?

Is the NLG, in your opinion, a bad thing?

No, no and no.

People are entitled to think what they want and choose whatever political paths they want, and I certainly don't think that's at issue here.

Nor am I defending the Bush administration's apparent difficulties with some aspects of constitutional governance. They deserve to be called into question and addressed.

I just don't think a statement like this from a group like this is all that surprising or eventful.

Looking through their positions on various other issues, I find myself agreeing with some of them -- notably their opposition to torture, which has a strong moral foundation I happen to share.

But it also becomes rather obvious what the NLG is about, which is promoting a political agenda that is shared by countless other groups opposed to the Bush administration, and which all work together in various ways.

Without at least something to suggest a less partisan stance, a statement like this carries little weight.

Left-wingers have been calling for Bush to be impeached since Day One (e.g., the "stolen election"). If folks want to get all riled up about the NLG doing the same, good for them.

I'm just somewhat skeptical about it, have seen the same old thing for decades and am doubtful that this will have any significance in the end.

Americans will have a chance to vote someone else into office next year. Then, depending on who is elected, left- and right-wing political groups can pick up their protestations where they left off while the Powers That Be run the show anyway.

And the sun will still rise and set like it always has.

reply to post by Majic


Well written, and well though out. Majic, you could have a career here in DC as a Lobbyist -- you have a wonderful feel for the written word.

Best....

Being a lobbyist sounds quite fun, but I've become rather fond of having a soul.

Originally posted by Rahul Buttar
And what if American citizens are tortured? What if Americans are imprisoned indefinately and denied their rights? Do you honestly think that the government should do whatever it takes?

Daniel Pearl, the hostages held in iran and lebanon, or don't you remember?. And yes, the U.S. government should do whatever it takes to destroy the vermin that do such crimes.

I swear, if the founding fathers were around today people like you would call them terrorist sympathizers and "islamofacist" appeasers. You've become so brainwashed into being a "good German" that you've forgotten what the word facist even means.

And I swear that if you had ever studied the history of that time you would understand that what you just wrote is nothing more than total BS.

As a matter of fact, the founding fathers (you obviously know nothing about) were just getting ready to launch what would turn out to be the first American war against "islamofascists" - the muslim pirates of the Barbary (as in barbarian) Coast of North Africa. Over 200 years later and "some" muslims are still causing the U.S. problems. Continuing with your history lesson, the U.S. defeated the muslim pirates then and will continue to defeat them - until muslims finally agree to join the rest of the world in the 21st century.

[edit on 11/30/2007 by centurion1211]

Oh please, you want me to get on here and post all the bible verses (probably also mis-translated and out of context, like yours) commanding christians & jews to do unspeakable things to non-christians and non-jews?

You asked and I showed you...

I thought this was going to be a real discussion, never mind. Debating with people who respond with false & mis-leading "proof" is an exercise in futility.

How was what I posted false & mis-leading?

illegal war for private billionaires

How is this was illegal? Didn't congress give him the authority to go to war with Iraq?

Trouble is that history has proven over and over again that turning the other cheek, taking the high road, etc. accomplishes exactly squat when you are dealing with what are basically barbarians. Especially those that are happy to die for their cause and the more the merrier as far as how many infidels they take along with them.

Hilter, Ahmud Ahmadinejad

For a country who is responsible for committing genocide on over 20 million Native Americans

So sad, so true

It sickens me to hear that we give billions of dollars to foreign countries to help aid there people, yet this country won't make sure that most Native Americans has clean water, good soil. and the basic amenities.

Again sad but true

Take for example John Lennon, famous for give peace a chance attitude. What did it get him? SHOT IN THE BACK!!!!!! In our world you have to know what your enemies are doing, and do what ever it takes to get that information. I don't hide behind religion or education in times of war. Its about survival and its kill or be killed. What would you rather happen....KILL or BE KILLED???? Just wish others on the board would realize that during times of war.....rules go out the window (or you die trying not to break the rules).

It would be nice if the world we live in was at peace.

Originally posted by Kanati
As a Native American I can honestly say "America you got everything that happens to you coming." Your government waves this flag of Freedom and Democracy to the world, only the rest of the world sees that it's attached to the end of a GUN. I hear this crap all the time about how Saddam was this brutal dictator and killed 100's of thousands of people and that might be true, but never mind it was your ignorant government that put his sick butt in power and sold him the chemical weapons. Or how your government put the Shaw of Iran in power, let him commit his atrocities and then gave him asylum in America when he was overthrown. And Americans wonder why Arabs hate them. For a country who is responsible for committing genocide on over 20 million Native Americans and who knows how many African Americans your sure quick to judge others. It sickens me to hear that we give billions of dollars to foreign countries to help aid there people, yet this country won't make sure that most Native Americans has clean water, good soil. and the basic amenities. How do you expect others of different ideoligies to except America when history has show America has no respect about others who don't subscribe to your Christian way of life.

[edit on 29-11-2007 by Kanati]

If you want to cite historical examples of maltreatment of others, I suggest you look at what some other countries have done in the past as well, rather than reserving the vitriol for your native land only. I also submit that if you chose to participate in society, rather than to isolate yourself, your lot in life will be considerably better.

Really it is very simple. We are a nation of laws. If you break the law you should pay the price.

I believe we are strong enough to lead by example not through the barrell of a gun. Due to the selfishness and greed of the elite in particular and the masses in part we are no longer that shining city on the hill ...and that is sad.

If there were no oil in the middle east would we be there??

That's the lie. Ofcourse it's about money/power.

I find it disgusting that any citizen could support the current administration and their policies at this point. Frankly I am astounded ...what do these guys have to do to lose your support??

ah, some of the things I miss when I'm off sick for a few days.

Ok kids, really, is anyone really surprised or even impressed by this crap? Seems that most that are, are just the usual brainwashed "rah rah bush bad" democraps who can't see anything past that.

So, some board of lawyers drafted up a document.. wow, bestill my beating heart. can they actually do anythign with it? likely not.


so.. quick question before the talking heads of teh forums start spouting off their usual misinformed drivel. how many here actually understand and realize that impeachment does not remove an official from office?

to note, the only criminal whos ever been impeached while in office.. yep you guessed it.. Clinton.. the lying cheating socialist saxophone playing hick who pretended to be president. aka, hillarys mouthpiece. Anyone who doubts he wasn't is just simply wrong. drop the mans pants and I'm sure his scrotum is still in the shape of her purse.

reply to post by Leo Strauss

If there were no oil in the middle east would we be there??

I would have to say no we would not.

Never too late

I don't think it matter much whether it is close to the 2008 elections or not. On a certain level, impuning their names and reputations will lesson their future power and clout, and more importantly it sends a message to the people that there IS something they can do, and hopefully this will make them more aware in the future.

In any case, nothing bad can come of it. No use sitting back and saying to oneself, "Well those criminals sure had us for 8 years, nothin' to do but sit back and gulp it down like little sheep ready for the next mass slaughter".

On a symbolic level, if nothing else, it is important to make a stand.

This should be reason enough to dump dying Cheney; aside from a plethora of others:

March 16, 2003

Cheney: I'm confident that our troops will be successful, and I think it'll go relatively quickly, but we can't...
Q: Weeks?
Cheney: ...we can't count on that.
Q: Months?
Cheney: Weeks rather than months...

Fact: Iraq war: as long as WWII on 11/24/07

zfacts.com...
www.msnbc.msn.com...

"Cheney's Impeachable Crimes Highlighted at UDC Forum"

[edit on 30-11-2007 by anhinga]

Originally posted by traderonwallst
I would rather not know what is going on behind the scenes to protect us. Keep it quiet, do whats necessary.

That's all fine and dandy til they come for YOU. What then? Do you still want them to be able to secretly torture YOU. Even though you may be innocent?

Don't even watch "24". I used that scenario to describe when i thought it would be necessary and ACCEPTABLE to use torture. Did I ever condone torture of innocents to find 1 terrorists?? Hell no. I condoned it on 1 person, in the example I gave. Don't you dare go switching my words and using them against me.

In your ONE scenario, I can agree. How often is it the other way though? How would we know? Especially since you want it to be secretly done.

One life to saves thousands

Originally posted by JadePhoenix
One life to saves thousands

put this in your scenario and smoke it...

the guy you torture, admits he knows where the bomb is, and then lies about it. several different lies.
why?
because he's just trying to tell you what you want to hear, so you will stop torturing him.

how many lives saved?

zero.

Originally posted by Griff
That's all fine and dandy til they come for YOU. What then? Do you still want them to be able to secretly torture YOU. Even though you may be innocent?

Fearmongering paranoia at its "finest".

We all know that they aren't coming for us. None of us are going to be tortured. As long as we stay away from radical muslims and remain law abiding citizens, that is.

Originally posted by centurion1211

We all know that they aren't coming for us.

BS.
katrina alone proves otherwise.


[edit on 30-11-2007 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by centurion1211

We all know that they aren't coming for us.

BS.
katrina alone proves otherwise.

Who came for who during Katrina?

The only Katrina issue I'm aware of was the illegal confiscation of legally registered firearms by the New Orleans police department (not the U.S. government).

Fortunately, the NRA stepped to take care of the NOPD.

Originally posted by goosdawg

Originally posted by traderonwallst
Just wish others on the board would realize that during times of war.....rules go out the window (or you die trying not to break the rules).

Wrong! That is when we need "the rules" the most or we are no better than the "barbarians" at the gate!

BTW, One grows weary of your assertion that you somehow have a corner on the suffering imposed upon us by the events of 9/11, because you were there.

Ask yourself this, how would you feel about your "fearless leaders" if it came out that they had a hand in allowing 9/11 to take place?

Sorry have to disagree with you. Your telling me you that if you were fighting a war and your enemy was fighting dirty, you would stand idly by and allow him to win? That is one weak response. Hope I never end up in a fox hole with you. In a kill or be killed situation, I vote...kill, do what ever is necessary. If not in that situation, yes there are levels of warfare that are appropriate, but when the other side fights dirty, as do terrorists, the gloves come off and the rule book goes out the window. (IN TIMES OF WAR).

Sorry if my referring to being there on 9-11 offends you, but thats a fact. I was there, and I felt attacked on a much more personal level. How would you like it if you went to work someday and realized you were under attack by someone you did not know, never offended or did not even know you a potential target. I hope you never know that feeling, and I hope I never feel it again. Never realized my mentioning this fact was imposing on the readers of ATS. I wil try to refrain from imposing on you again.

As for finding out our (as you put it) fearless leaders had a hand in the attacks...once you prove that, I will answer it, otherwise keep the hypothetical questions to a minimum.

Originally posted by billybob

Originally posted by centurion1211

We all know that they aren't coming for us.

BS.
katrina alone proves otherwise.


[edit on 30-11-2007 by billybob]

How many people that were minding their own business, and not looting, etc... were adversely affected by the government/representatives of the government? You can't have democracy in the middle of a disaster. You have to establish order first and foremost, before normalcy can return.

reply to post by BlueRaja


Once again its feeble minded people like you that prove my point. Why should we as Native Americans give up our way of life to suit the capitalists white trash. Its your people who came here and committed genocide on Native Americans. It's your people who enslaved and killed African Americans. Its your people who continue to live on stolen land that you have no respect for. Instead you continue to destroy it. IE: the 200 mountains in the Appalachian area never to be seen again, all for coal. Its your people who continue to destroy water sources all in the name of progress. Ever wonder why 1 in 3 Americans die of cancer, while most 3rd world countries its 1 in 50.
See my people realized that this earth was not ours. It was the next generations, and we made sure that we didn't use more than we needed. But not you Americans! you need 2, 3, 4, cars, 2, 3, 4, houses etc. Its embedded in your brains: it becomes systemic, more is better, bigger is better. See thats why most Indians were migratory, we realized that to move on and not stay in one area would have less impact on earth. But not Americans, most are to lazy to even take tot bags to the store so as not to use plastic bags. Americans have no sense of the future, its all about the here and now and let the people of the next generation fend for themselves. As long as America has the mentality that MIGHT is RIGHT and that the world is their oyster waiting to be devoured, and a complete disrespect for others way of life and ideoligies you will continue to have problems home and abroad.
Isn't it strange how America claims to be the beacon of light for the Iraq people and how they were freed from Saddam's terrorizing ways. Yet you have none stop free trade with China who has killed millions in recent decades, yet you can't buy a Cuban cigar (Hmmmm). Its your governments hypocrisies that continually make America a laughing stock of the free world. You keep believing all this crap you here on CNN aka Corporate paid media, instead of actually learning your history and recognizing where mistakes were made and learning from it. Its Love Compassion Understanding, and the ability to realize you don't hold claim to the entire worlds natural resources that will change the worlds view towards America.