Moon Off Limits to Earthlings?

Originally posted by jbondo


That whole "being warned off the moon" stuff is completely ridiculous. There are many reasons why we haven't set foot on the moon lately. This is changing rapidly though and as plans continue for moon based stations it's only a matter of time. There have been recent studies of everything from effects on humans stationed on the moon for long periods of time to design concepts of structural enclosures for work and living. I also believe that once a working space ladder is in place it will really start to move plans along.

Well sorry, just saying something is so, doesn't make that way. You've provided no evidence of anything here. The evidence shows me it is more likely that humans have been warned off the moon. I'm anxiously awaiting the results of the forthcoming Chinese mission.

[edit on 7-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

there hasn't been a moon landing (manned or unmanned) since 1976?

These two made it to the moons surface.

Lunar Prospector

SMART-1

I'd call it more of a 'sudden deceleration" than a landing though.

The Soviets had an unmanned mission to the moon in 1989, but it failed when radio contact was cut off abruptly...

Are you thinking of Phobos 1? It was headed to the moon....of Mars.

Then there was the little known story of Hughes 601HP...

The evidence shows me it is more likely that humans have been warned off the moon.

That evidence would be.....?

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
I wonder if/why a space station is better than a moon station. It seems to me if the goal is to explore space (and go further and further outward), we'd be working on a moon station right now.

There is no "worse" or "better" in that regard. The station orbiting Earth simply has different, and I would say important, objectives. There is a lot of observations you can do, of our planet, grow crystals and organisms in zero-G, deploy cosmic ray experiments, material science, space medicine etc etc.

Originally posted by SpaceMax


That evidence would be.....?

Well SpaceMax, thanks for providing that, I guess Wikipedia needs to be updated, lol. I've already addressed what the situation is now. Were we humans banned for decades possibly? Also why no manned missions?

reply to post by Raoul Duke


Yes, I'd like to see your pile of evidence that "we have been warned off". It's your thread Dude, don't you think the weight is on your shoulders?

My statement is JMO based on thousands of scientists and astronomers both professional and amateur that have been looking at the moon for decades. Suffice it to say, I'm not that interested in arguing the absurd as you may believe whatever you wish.

Originally posted by jbondo:

Yes, I'd like to see your pile of evidence that "we have been warned off". It's your thread Dude, don't you think the weight is on your shoulders?

I'll agree it's circumstantial evidence, but it's extremely strange that a manned mission has not gone there since '72.

My statement is JMO based on thousands of scientists and astronomers both professional and amateur that have been looking at the moon for decades. Suffice it to say, I'm not that interested in arguing the absurd as you may believe whatever you wish.

There's nothing to observe so scientists astronomers, etc. would know nothing of this. If there was an agreement or communication with the world's governments (or just the U.S. gov) to not go to the moon (mandated by some et's or the galactic federation or some such), how would we know? We won't know this type of stuff 'til disclosure takes place (if ever).


[edit on 7-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
The evidence shows me it is more likely that humans have been warned off the moon.

It's very expensive and dangerous to go to the Moon, particularly with astronauts, and the return on the investment is really not that good. The U.S. and Russians did it in the 60s because they were in a Cold War competition. Once the U.S. "won," and retrieved a pretty good load of samples, there wasn't much reason to go back anytime soon. People quickly lost interest in it, and wanted less money spent on stupid space stuff and more on getting out of Vietnam and financing social programs here on Earth. Richard Nixon was happy to use those things as excuses to cancel the Apollo program, which was a legacy from that philandering JFK, who Nixon hated with a passion.

Other countries are picking up the moon and space exploration ball lately as a way of demonstrating their skills at high-tech manufacturing and research. The scientific value of their efforts is questionable, but nobody can doubt the PR value. Along with that, the technology has gotten relatively less expensive over time, making it possible for smaller countries to create functional space programs. Private industry could do more lunar exploration, but there's still a problem with return on investment, and they aren't going to do manned missions, which are pretty pointless considering the risk.

On the other hand, according to John Lear, who has credentials as long as your arm, we actually still have an active but Above Top Secret presence on the Moon. Supposedly, thanks in part to the multiple billions of dollar Ronald Reagan funneled into "Star Wars" black projects, we have a functioning lunar farside base as part of our military Secret Space Force, which is used for mapping lunar resources for their strategic value, clear radio monitoring of alien activities in the Solar System, and studying the old ruins of alien bases to gather information that might be useful in the event of attack. Lear might differ with your opinion that we were "warned off" in any significant way.

Originally posted by Nohup

On the other hand, according to John Lear, who has credentials as long as your arm, we actually still have an active but Above Top Secret presence on the Moon. Supposedly, thanks in part to the multiple billions of dollar Ronald Reagan funneled into "Star Wars" black projects, we have a functioning lunar farside base as part of our military Secret Space Force, which is used for mapping lunar resources for their strategic value, clear radio monitoring of alien activities in the Solar System, and studying the old ruins of alien bases to gather information that might be useful in the event of attack. Lear might differ with your opinion that we were "warned off" in any significant way.

I'm aware of John Lear and many of his claims. He's one of the most interesting on UFOs, and yes he has credentials, but he doesn't have much evidence himself.

Anyway, wouldn't this be a reason we're not going to the moon, if all this activity is ongoing there? The more astronauts that go there (even if they are masons or 'in on the conspiracy' or whatever) the more chance of some one talking and disclosing to the public what's going on up there.

i have a good idea, lets stop using money and pool our intellects to create a space faring society, and show any potential aliens we arent this primitive war loving race after all, we were deluded by materialism and stagnation.

Originally posted by mastermind77
i have a good idea, lets stop using money and pool our intellects to create a space faring society, and show any potential aliens we arent this primitive war loving race after all, we were deluded by materialism and stagnation.

I don't think that will work, because we are, after all, a primitive, war-loving race that loves us some materialism and likes to keep things status quo. We're weak and don't live long and would make a lousy space-faring society. We lose our bones almost instantly in zero-G, and our ships are notoriously slow. We'd never live long enough to get to even the closest star, much less fly around like Star Trek and fight Romulans.

Nohup, Mastermind,
Your discussion reminds me of contactee Philip Krapf and the race of et's (The Verdants) he allegedly was in communication with. Here's something he said at a talk he gave (paraphrased):

He reiterated that the Verdants have estimated that 20% of the Earth's population are holding back human advancement and public disclosure. These 20% are comprised of geoplutocrats who run world policy organizations trying to preserve the economic status quo, general sociopaths, and others not likely to change in the face of public announcement of contact by the Verdants.

So perhaps only 20% of us are bad intentioned, and keep the rest of us from evolving to new levels.

reply to post by Raoul Duke



Good subject to discuss. I too have heard and read for many years and many people that the "warn off" happened. Krapfs comments also mention this.

I am also waiting for evidence from Chinese probe results. I am sure they would attempt to best us in such a discovery to prove our government is less trustworthy then theirs. The politic is so childish, but I could see that happening.

And my overall opinion of our civilization and the evidence of the advance nature of other visiting species, gives me some embarrassment for being a stupid earthling. From all indications we are the equivalent of the back woods nose picking, incestuous, violent and filthy littering idiots who want to move into the real neighborhood.

If you owned a nice house, kept up the neighborhood and worked with everyone else on the street, and a sicko family of trashy, violent creeps wanted to "move in", I would have much concern. If I could keep the rental listings from them I would. And, if I saw that the darker forms of humans controlling where perpetuating such disinformation and denying the greater reality, I might just let that happen until I saw signs that the Earthlings where showing the capability to avoid pulling out a gun when they see something they do not understand.

I do think this is possible. I know these other species exist, because I have seen their technology, and possibly an alien entity. I also have missing time and memory. So, assuming such advanced beings exist, and that they are on the Moon until we ask for it back as a destination without guns, II will assume this argument of "warn off" as possible with other compelling factoids.

I do think we have great promise as a species, now I think still pre-Intelligent". If we can get the weak links out of the chain we can seriously try to argue for inclusion in the massive galactic civilization we are likely embedded.

ZG

I do think we have great promise as a species, now I think still pre-Intelligent". If we can get the weak links out of the chain we can seriously try to argue for inclusion in the massive galactic civilization we are likely embedded.

I agree, regardless of the exact figure (20% or whatever), I think we as a species, definitely suffer from bad apples spoiling the bunch.



[edit on 7-11-2007 by Raoul Duke]

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
And my overall opinion of our civilization and the evidence of the advance nature of other visiting species, gives me some embarrassment for being a stupid earthling. From all indications we are the equivalent of the back woods nose picking, incestuous, violent and filthy littering idiots who want to move into the real neighborhood.

I don't necessarily have that low an opinion of mankind. We do pretty good considering our inherent weaknesses.

On the other hand, I sometimes consider that if space is only an extension of the natural environment as seen on Earth, with everything killing and eating everything else, then successfully surviving alien species would have to be some of the toughest, smartest, and possibly most vicious and ruthless creatures you'd ever come across. Deadly super-intelligent poisonous spiders with brain-exploding psychic power, warp drive and planet disintegrators.

And it's not so much that they aren't dealing openly with us because we're crude, it's because we're just not a threat to them. Like sharks ignoring little turtles.

So as far as our general awfulness is concerned, we might be pikers compared to some alien species out there. If there are any, of course.

Originally posted by Raoul Duke
I'll agree it's circumstantial evidence, but it's extremely strange that a manned mission has not gone there since '72.

There are plentiful example of similar "gaps" in the technology development. Electric cars were introduced almost a century ago but the technology just wasn't ripe. And, when was the last time you saw a tomb being built to the specs of ancient pyramids? Roman Empire created a highly developed network of roads all over the place, and they eventually degraded, with comparable transporation systems only appearing in 19th century.

As others pointed out, the investment in the lunar program must be so large that it's hard to justify... I still think that unmanned missions, given the current level of robotics and communications, can go a long way at a fraction of the cost. Cold war is over and there is less of the wow factor...

Well now Buddhasystem, all sorts of things are in the eye of the beholder. I hadn't thought of everything you and others with the argument you are making did, but I want to go the other way on this issue in my thinking. What if this gap can't just be explained away with perfectly mundane explanations? Our astronaut core seems to have gone backwards since the early to mid 70s, IMO it seems more than reasonable to suspect that something is amiss.

i too have been curious about this. my small opinion on this is that something does not add up. it is just not in human nature to go some where and not go back again. if it were the matter of money and what we get out of it, then why do we have bases in antartica? nothing down there but ice and snow and marching penguins! LOL! but seriously, it must cost a lot of money to keep those people there. we have places in the far north of our continents around the world as well and in places that are extremely remote. yes THIS is earth. but my point is, once we have gone some where, we keep on going back or just build something there and claim it for nothing more that national pride! "look what we can do and this place is ours now!" how expensive was it for colombus when he took off and encountered america? breaking it down, his voyage was just as dangerous and expensive in comparison. there was nothing much to see, yet when he returned to spain the crown sent him back just for pride and hopefully for riches. this is human nature!

with our new technology and advances in sciences and computers, going back there should be a lot easier than it was for buzz and neil!

Good point Blackthorne,
About human nature that is. Remember manifest destiny, why no similar theory about outer space?

I found this, not exactly good enough evidence but some of the photos from the moon are quite good in this thread:

Alien Moon Base?