Why * I Disagree With John Lear * And YOU Should Too

Originally posted by Dewm0nster
John Lear is a reptillianoid disinfo agent.
I have no proof of this- But I have formed some loosely based theories.
It's not knowingly falsified, because this is my actual belief- No matter how outlandish it seems to any of you.
In light of it being my genuine belief- I can assume there will be no repercussions of this statement; and anyone else who believes me, can also share solace in this safety of belief.

So, how do we go about my being made a Conspiracy Master?

Thanks for the post your argument is very persuasive and anyone who does not agree with it is obviously a close minded sheep.

reply to post by evanmontegarde


Yes, seriously, if you claim these ridiculous theories are correct, I have no choice but accept them as ultimate truth.

reply to post by Rockpuck


John can't provide proof because, in his own words, there is none.
I would think it is also difficult to come up with a viable hypothesis for "fantasies".

Originally posted by johnlear(emphasis added)

I then began posting my unsupported, undocumented and unverified fantasies because I believe them to be true and I wanted to share with those who are interested.

After the ageist remark......

Originally posted by Rockpuck

But do you realize how many people take 100% of what he says as gospel?

No, I don't, but apparently you do. If so, please inform. If not, consider taking a poll...I think you might be surprised to learn how many members take 100% of what John Lear says as gospel.

Blind-as-a-bat 100% belief isn't required in order to find John Lear's ideas an enjoyable study, and ATS readership seems to support his popularity.

I sense ego

I think the issue here, is the Fact that alot of people come to these forums to actually learn and discuss things they believe in. So when you have someone who sits high on the forum totem pole acting in that manner, and making claims just for the sake of entertainment, because some people like to read it. It kinda makes the people who are here to learn some kind of truth, aggravated or confused as because they do not now if this man is being factual...or mainly making some far-fetched claims to merely get the forums talking.

exactly i agree with rock on everything he said except on the entertaining read part mainly because i cant read anything for longer than 3 seconds without proof but thats my problem

Offtopic anyway hey rock could you please send me that picvia u2u of course

i am going to agree but tread oh so lightly because i to got a post ban commenting on john lear. i am sure he is a great person etc etc but all we ask for is some proof that hasnt been stolen or mysteriously misplaced or the dog at it. i am sure other people like me WANT to believe but we need proof. like my physics professor says "leave your beliefs at the door unless you can prove them"

Sheesh. I missed that part.

Now Admins, WHY DONT' YOU BAN THIS LEAR CLOWN TO HIGH HEAVEN SO THAT SANE PEOPLE CAN LEARN MORE ABOUT REAL UFOs AND ALIENS?

Since when is it OK to post unverifiable nonsense? Hey you admins, don't you think you are making rabbits' arses of yourselves?

[edit on 3-11-2007 by Aelita]

reply to post by eaglewingz


then they should move all his claims to skunk works and be done with it not call him conspiracy master AND give him his own thread thats title has nothing to do with fantasies

I love to listen to John Lear, but I don't like discussing anything with him too much, though. See, John is a storyteller. That's all. I think part of the performance is that he doesn't tell you that he is a storyteller, you just have to pick up on it. After that you're okay with just about everything he says. People don't question Arthur C. Clarke about an alien monolith communications and uplift device that has been excavated on the moon because they know that Mr. Clarke is just telling a tale. Albeit a tale that's extremely believable. A tale that compels listeners to ask, "What if?" John Lear is the same except he dares one to believe him. If folks believe him he gets his chuckle on and calls it a day. If folks question him, well, then he gets to do a bit of role playing along with getting his chuckle on. But the bottom line is that John Lear is a believer AND a skeptic. That's the charm of his act. He believes in intelligent extraterrestrial life and he is extremely skeptical of authorities that are in position to conspire against the edification of the masses on the matter of extraterrestrial intelligence. So, I think, that one has to view John as a catalyst to get more people to pay attention to what is going on with our government and space program. After all it is our government and our space program. Neither belongs to the President or the president of NASA. It belongs to us, the American people, and the information that is kept hidden from us, regarding extraterrestrial intelligence, is knowledge rightfully belonging to every human being on Earth.

One of the best ways to get people to open their minds a little is to lie to them. Tell them a story that's fantastical and somewhat believable to get them to focus on the truth. Which could, of course, end up discrediting the story and the storyteller. But I think that's John's plan. The other thing is that sometimes I think he really wants to tell us a truth. A real truth. Though, given his obvious and verifiable background, that may not be possible. But it is possible for us to get to poking around in areas of interest that we otherwise would not have if it were not for John Lear or somebody like him.

So I forgive John for his hoaxing nature because its done with pretty good storytelling for a good purpose. He wants me to question certain things more. Though, I don't think he wants me to necessarily question him. Questioning him is not that much fun because he can only offer, generally, incomplete answers. But I believe most of his earthbound stories. And I have a strong feeling that there may be a secret space program. It's actually very had to make sense that we do not have a secret space program, because given the known technology at our disposal, never mind the unknown or unverified technology, it simply makes sense that a contemporary space program would be in full effect. The soul catcher thing on the moon? Nope, I don't buy it for a second, but it makes for a cool story. Gotta have titillating bits in a story well told.

I think one should observe John's background as a reason to listen to him. To pay attention. The last thing that we should do is believe him because of the credentials that he has earned. John simply, and obviously, does not want us to do that. He doesn't want us to do that anymore than he wants us to believe the President of the United States simply because he's the President. He obviously wants us to question our government and demand answers. He obviously wants us to question with him as well. Storytellers do need to maintain an audience. Only, as with the government, questioning John is usually not that much fun. But it can be! More importantly, if we do question, we just might learn something.

Originally posted by Areal51
I love to listen to John Lear, but I don't like discussing anything with him too much, though. See, John is a storyteller. That's all. I think part of the performance is that he doesn't tell you that he is a storyteller, you just have to pick up on it. After that you're okay with just about everything he says. People don't question Arthur C. Clarke about an alien monolith communications and uplift device that has been excavated on the moon because they know that Mr. Clarke is just telling a tale.

In case you didn't catch it, this is not a scifi forum. Ideally people don't post FICTION here and I venture to say that posting FICTION is against the policies of the esteemed Forum.

John Lear keeps posting loads of sticky stuff here, and since ATS profits from web hits, they prostitute the Forum to John Lear just to keep healthy traffic from debunkers. This is the saddest of realities.


[edit on 3-11-2007 by Aelita]

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[edit on 3-11-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Been a long time since I commented on a John Lear thread. For a couple of reasons, most importantly the last time I was post banned for a few days,

No surprise there... so what do you do when you get back? Post still another "I love John so much I can't get enough of him' thread
:shk:

but also because Lear completely avoids confrontation...

Confrontation gets you banned... ATS is not about confrontation... John has also been banned in the past for being confrontational and even I have recieved warnings when I 'engage the enemy'... as is human nature...

To expect someone to be confrontational just because YOU want a 'fight' is stupid and childish... and serves no one

Now, but quite honeslt if ANYONE said half the things HE says they would be banned for hoaxing.

I post half the things he does and I am not 'hoaxing' Just because YOU don't have all the facts, or it doesn't fit you 'mold' of what should be... that makes a person a hoaxer? I suggest you look up the term in a dictionary...

John Lear, son of the man who made the Lear Jet. Perhaps that gave him the idea that he is important and that people would listen to him, who knows.

People listen to him because he talks about current interests of MANY of those that come to ATS SPECIFICALLY to find out about topics like John and I discuss... Simply look at the stats. YOU actually help the cause... because every time someone posts a thread like this one... (which in my opinion is simply another personal attack...) all it serves is to draw more attention to the 'cause'

The thing is, he has all these contacts, NSA, NASA, CIA, HLS, ect, ect, ect .. very connected.

yes he does... and yes he is... and now since I started here at ATS so am I... Why? because MANY of those contacts are here silently watching the threads... and when they wish to share they contact John... and more recently myself... The funny thing is ANYONE here could have the same... if they were sincere seekers of the 'truths'

But its is claims that give him away.
For instance. soul collector on the moon. What a joke. Any pics? No. None. He has pics of rock formations he claims are mines, but to lazy apparently to capture the giant soul collector.

The 'soul collector' theory does not come from any of the above named sources... you seem to have your facts mixed up (not surprisingly) The pics of the Moon are from NASA... John does not have access currently to a personal spacecraft so that he could take this picture for you... You call him 'lazy' Please be so kind as to suggest how he might take such a picture?

Ask him for proof... he insults you. Ask him to back up a claim, he deems you ignorant.

There is no point asking for proof if you are too 'ignorant' to even follow links to evidence that we provide. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that people like yourself would accept.

As I said, if I claimed to know sources to prove a giant soul collector (among many things) without proof I would be banned for a hoax.

No you would be banned for a hoax IF you created fake images of the soul collector and attempted to pass it off as fake. As to sources look up many of the ancient Native creation stories... THEY all believed the soul when to the moon... I suppose you would insult those people as well and call them crazy too?

And you were allow to create THIS post were you not? It is obviously not a conspiracy theory... it is obviously not a thread sharing ANY info that you present and CAN BACK UP WITH FACTS... It is only a thread on your personal opinion... and not of a general topic, but of a person... which I understood to be not only against T&C but just not good etiquette... and the nerve to suggest in your title that others SHOULD believe as you do... Kinda like the Kettle calling the Pot black, isn't it?

I recommend you look at this thread... its quite popular you know... I have posted two direct sources from our 'list' One even has name and position...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

But you have been blinded by your adulation of John so you will see nothing else...

I thought ATS denied ignorance, not embrace it..

It is but only skeptics think it applies only to them... It works both ways... if there is a secret space station... and you deny it exists then YOU are ignorant. It is that simple... 'deny ignorance' does NOT mean deny everything that does not fit YOUR biased assumptions of how the universe functions.

so I ask, under what reasoning do his devout followers believe such bogas information?

LOL I can turn that around I see the devout followers of 'the old boys club' in action with this banding together of a handful of hard core skeptics. I wonder do you meet in secret and plan the next John Attack?

Oh silly me you claim to be a "Master Mason' like I said 'the old boys club' in action. So I don't suppose you would have a biased and vested interest in NOT letting certain info out huh?

And more importantly
Why, John Lear, do you not answer critics instead of ignoring or insulting your critics?

He does many time, in many threads... you just don't listen nor accept the answers...


admin edit: removed childish name calling

Jealousy is such an ugly bitch of a monster.

In response to you guys dictating what the mods "should" do, where do you get off? Perhaps, if you become a mod one day, you can throw your 2 pennies into the mix. However, that day doesn't seem to be here yet.

As far as what I WISH the mods would do, it's close this thread as it's nothing but a pitiful attempt at attention and the banding together of the "John Lear Hate as a Result of Jealousy" group.


I'm pretty certain that "direct attacks" against a fellow forum member are against the T&C of the site.



Jasn

Originally posted by Areal51People don't question Arthur C. Clarke about an alien monolith communications and uplift device that has been excavated on the moon because they know that Mr. Clarke is just telling a tale. Albeit a tale that's extremely believable. A tale that compels listeners to ask, "What if?"

Check out ACC's CIA connections

The other thing is that sometimes I think he really wants to tell us a truth. A real truth. Though, given his obvious and verifiable background, that may not be possible. But it is possible for us to get to poking around in areas of interest that we otherwise would not have if it were not for John Lear or somebody like him.

Now you are getting somewhere... John has given so many 'hints' that if one spent a few weeks following those hints on their own... you would be surprised to where they lead.. but then those that speak against him are so sure they are right, they would never spend an hour let alone a week...

and thus remaiin ignorant

I realy dont get it why so many people like to spend so much time in going after mister Lear.

Dont you people have a life.

I truly think it is sad the way some people shoot for proof.

How a bout the word "theory"

Before i had seen all this mudd trowing, i had no real interest in mister Lear, but now i realy start to get interested.
Just because so many peole go after him

From me you get some Respect Mister Lear, thanks for the interesting views.

reply to post by ArtemisFowl


Maybe it has something to do with John not letting himself sink to the level of you guys.

It takes a bigger man to not say a word and walk away.


Jasn

I made a mistake because i gave this post a star......i didn't read the whole Original Post, stupid me.......

But it's a clear thing that when it gets emotional....people get angry and want Lear to be out of here........

'And "YOU" should too'.....it's says.

Let me tell you this.....don't tell me what i should do !

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Jealousy is such an ugly --- of a monster.

In response to you guys dictating what the mods "should" do, where do you get off? Perhaps, if you become a mod one day, you can throw your 2 pennies into the mix. However, that day doesn't seem to be here yet.

As far as what I WISH the mods would do, it's close this thread as it's nothing but a pitiful attempt at attention and the banding together of the "John Lear Hate as a Result of Jealousy" group.


I'm pretty certain that "direct attacks" against a fellow forum member are against the T&C of the site.

SELF EDIT: Removed immature and unnecessary language

Or they could move it to BTS like they did with my topic. I don't think the TC is here to "ATTACK" John Lear, just like I wasn't out to attack sleeper. I just want to understand why these people are getting special treatment. If they put a banner on John Lear's forum saying "This material is of a speculative nature and you should consider all perspectives", that would be awesome so that it removes any confusion about it being fact or not. It's so annoying to see John Lear flame other users and get praised when others question him and get much harsher treatment.

[edit on 11/3/2007 by SonicInfinity]

reply to post by Aelita


Sorry but you failed to catch the meaning of what I said. It's not about science fiction per se, it's about storytelling. It's about people using their brains to discern for themselves what to believe or not. I have seen many posts where John has said that it is his OPINION that there is a soul catcher on the moon. And I have seen him say that about many things that he has said. On the other hand, I have also heard him speak about certain events that have been verified by other witnesses to those same events. I don't think John intentionally misleads, I think John intentionally dares. Now if folks go for the dare, that's their business. Many folks say they do not believe John, and so what is the problem? However, some folks do, and so, again, what is the problem?

Too bad that I cannot get verification on any number of issues that our government issues press releases about. I just take them at their word or I do not. Doesn't mean that officials should get the boot or stay in office solely on what I have come to believe.

Anyway, we are not talking about a democratic system here. We are talking about freedom to choose what one believes and what one does not believe. Sure, if John issued a story for the purpose of deception, a malicious act, then he should be banned. I don't think he's done that. What he has done is tell some fantastic stories in a forum designed especially for him. I think that's okay. ATS does have a Skunk Works section, and, so, you might want to consider John's section yet another skunk works section, if you're that much against what he does.

So what's the problem? In the words of Jon Voight, "It's a free country, brother."



[edit on 3-11-2007 by Areal51]

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Sonic wins in my opinion.

There is a glaring double-standard regarding the rules for 'famous' members any anyone else, but there is very little we can do about it.

Springer has weighed in on nearly all the topics vs John Lear or Sleeper and basically said the same thing... that they aren't breaking any rules so nothing will be done.

I've made several ALERTS regarding their threads, but no action is taken. I made a similar ALERT yesterday on that 'revolution' thread and it was moved to Skunkworks in less than a day. All of them have the same amount of proof (none), are basically fanciful stories, yet the popular members are allowed to continue the novels because of just that: they bring it more hits and more members.

Disclaimer: I can't prove anything, but please take it as fact because i say so.