Why * I Disagree With John Lear * And YOU Should Too

Originally posted by SimiusDei
reply to post by ArtemisFowl

 

Maybe it has something to do with John not letting himself sink to the level of you guys.

It takes a bigger man to not say a word and walk away.


Jasn

well said but still i dont give a rats bum what other people think i want his take on it you supporters are not john lear and there fore have no idea of what goes on in his mind i dont want zorgon or your take on it (no offense intended) but just a few words to hear what he has to say or his reasoning i am against lear not showing proof but that doesnt mean i am a simpleton but it means that i just want some proof that what he has to say is true because if it is then that changes everything however i just want any sort of proof i understand what a position he may or may not be in and if he is in one then let him tell me either "i have proof" or "i have no proof" but giving the cold shoulder to questions is why many dislike him just for him to say "i cannot show you proof on the internet because of certain people watching" would be fine.

again well said reply to me and i wish you a happy day or night

reply to post by Aelita


Please use normal text....It's not nice te read.

I rather like John Lear with his sometimes weird stories.....he doesn't attack people...before the other side is attacking him.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by webstra]

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Nice attempt to try to sway moral favor in your direction with that little "self edit" of yours.

You guys are directly attacking members of this forum out of pure JEALOUSY. You make that quite clear time and time again with the "But they moved MY thread! Why not his?" crap.

You know, when trying to put forth a valid argument, it usually helps to refrain from the "me, me, me" jazz.


Jasn

reply to post by ArtemisFowl


1. JL has NEVER told anyone they were ignorant for not believing as he does. I have yet to see him attack ANYONE without a great deal of provocation and he caught the warn stick when he did it.

2. If you REALLY wanted some info from John, you would have U2U'd him and asked for a direct response instead of this "calling him out" business. I have serious doubts that John will respond to this crap in any "defensive" manner as he really has no need to prove himself.


Jasn

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Nice attempt to try to sway moral favor in your direction with that little "self edit" of yours.

I come to ATS to get away from such language. On some sites, that word is 20% the conversation.

You guys are directly attacking members of this forum out of pure JEALOUSY. You make that quite clear time and time again with the "But they moved MY thread! Why not his?" crap.

You know, when trying to put forth a valid argument, it usually helps to refrain from the "me, me, me" jazz.

No, if this was jealousy, it would be much more "different" than the current situation. I just want to understand the logic of this "special treatment" thing.

If the admins came out and just blatantly said that John Lear and sleeper were getting special treatment, I would be content. It's the fact that they keep ignoring that, giving them special treatment, and denying it. Sounds a bit familiar...

reply to post by zorgon


well mr zorgon i can tell your a lear follower and not just because of that do i disagree with several things you have said. time and time agtain have i watch lear purposely pass on answering a honest question or innocent critique only to answer someone praising him. he purposely phrases things as if they were fact and when responded to as such his followers become shocked and appalled that we cant believe mr lear and that we have gall to ask for proof. with all due respect zorgon there is nothing wrong with asking for proof and asking that lear not be shown more leiniency(sp?) over the next person. any mod will tell you that ATS is about free thought and sharing those thoughts and thats all rock is doing just as mr lear does.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by zeroeffect]

In my opinion John Lear is a trickster who is so used to conning people that he has finally conned himself into believing his own stories. He thrives on attention of any kind and the more outrageous his claims, the more attention he gets. He is a schizophrenic in the true meaning of the word - a person whose personality is driven by another side that he is unaware of.

ATS wears many hats, and along with the serious discussion we have members here who push the fringe envelope to the breaking point and beyond. It slowly goes from scientific debate to circus theatrics, but who is to judge where the line is? My problem is when a cold, scientific thread is invaded by people who seem to push the same fantasy ideas over and over again, concepts that are beyond ridiculous and yet they bring a posse of 'believers' that drown out any legitimate learning.

Is John Lear entertaining? Of course he is. It is sad, however, to watch him and his band of merry fanatics bully anyone who dares to question the ideas of lush tropical forests on the dark side of the moon, as an example. This book that just came out by Hoaxland and co. is a perfect example of the kind of 'evidence' that sets back the truth movement by making us all look like fools.

I haven't seen evidence of special treatment for people like Lear, but I am relatively new to posting (not lurking) and I am trying not to step on any toes. It is good that we can have this discussion, the one thing I would really like to see is John stop his ad nauseum condescending smiley "thank you for posting" that has absolutely nothing to do with being polite and he darn well knows it.

Is there any one of the detractors who can DISPROVE what either sleeper or JL state?

Is there a member who can show there is a hoax being perpetrated?


I didn't think so...

If a person joins ATS to tell an outlandish story of being abducted by aliens, are we to disrespect them because their theories/experiences sound 'weird'?

Who would want to stick their neck out if we were to take that attitude?

How boring would this place be then, cleansed of all the weirdo's and CTers?

reply to post by masqua


Though I don't even remotely believe anything JL has to say, I couldn't agree with you more masqua. ATS would be rather dull.

This is the reason why some members, including myself are careful with what they post here on the forum. There are numerous subjects I don't or hardly post about for this very reason. Someone will assume I'm lying and hoaxing other members. Who knows it may all bite us in the butt one day when something outlandish that a member was posting about turns out to be true.

If a member is caught lying, and is willfully trying to deceive other members, and that can be proven fine. The ban hammer is ready for that. But what if that member actually believes what he or she is posting? Who are we to say he/she should be banned? Without a clear violation of the T&C??

I've learned something important recently. Do not impose your will on other people Which is exactly what the OP is doing here. Let other members be, and let us mods deal with them if they post anything that violates the site's rules.

I think this thread has run its course... at it seems the inspiration for the thread began as some type of "dare" in our chat.

Look... Springer (and Lear) know that I don't necessarily believe many of the things that come out of John's keyboard, and it's certainly easy to jerk our knees and assume he's violating various T&C conditions.

There are plenty of categories throughout ATS where highly speculative ideas are tolerated and even embraced. Easily 75% of everything in the 9/11 forum is as speculative as many of the ideas and theories Mr. Lear puts forth in his dedicated forum.

Like it or not, AboveTopSecret.com is a environment where we've decided that acceptance of wild speculation should be tolerated and embraced within the boundaries of polite decorum. When you get right down to it, our spectrum of topics rely on significant amounts conjecture and outright guess-work. But our difference is that we want to balance such dizzying thoughts with critical thinking and collaborative analysis in a deferential environment. You're not going to get that anywhere else... period.

With that in mind, Mr. Lear is a confirmed and popular personality who resides somewhere on the far fringe of UFO and conspiracy theories. There have been many discussions where his input has provided significant benefit, and still more where his far-reaching ideas force us to consider the boundaries of our box.

On the whole, I tend to think that his involvement with ATS balances in the positive. And as anyone who's been around long enough will tell you, if something is negative, I cut it quick.

Let's get back to the spirit of ATS... collaborative discussion of provocative topics in a genteel manner.




Thread closed.