Why * I Disagree With John Lear * And YOU Should Too

Who cares, i mean seriously. If you dont like what John lear writes then use your tiny brains and dont click on his damn forum ! its a simple conclusion. O and if you think ATS is a sham and you dont like it, BAN HIM/HER, just an idea

Take Care Every one, and John if your reading this thread, keep posting and keep up your work.

reply to post by Springer


Ive been a bit bad about trying to police threads like this.. So I will sertinly take a step back and ask this question...

Isnt starting a group with an agenda on ATS aginst the rules here on this site?
It seems to me the OP is starting a little gang on here.. the Anti John Lear group? It also seems these people gang up on other members, and call us mindless followers, and stuff to that affect..


Those of us who enjoy reading Johns threads will keep on doing so!
And it doesnt mean we are some cult following..
I dont know where you people get that from?

It makes me chuckle honestly to know there are people out here who think we feel John Lear is some kind of Demi God.. Or Jesus figure..

Ive crossed keyboards with a few anti lear people.. And I do know I tried to hard to play mod, when I am just a member.. And have no place to play Mod.. The Mods we have here do a great job! And dont need someone like me to do their job for them..

So I know my faults, and I can man up to that..
So please do the same for yourself, and know what you are doing here, and how it brands you here on ATS..

Lessons learned in life.. Just move on man.. Thats all you can really do.
But I will pipe up for now, and leave it to the Mods to deal with..




[edit on 3-11-2007 by zysin5]

reply to post by zysin5


Interesting post you got, I wonder myself if the reason Mr. Lear have so many negative responses and even this thread encouraging people to disagree with Mr. Lear because the author disagree with him also it actually shows the fear that people may have when given certain type of alternative thinking.

I like the author of this thread as a member, he has a very good point of view and has made very great threads, but on this one . . . I will just can not find why I should agree with him and stop reading to what Mr. Lear has to write.

Is a matter of free choice and only I make that choice.

reply to post by marg6043


it is not fear that gets the anti lear movement going its the fact that he shows no proof and people beli eve him even though that no matter what he wont show any proof and that makes it illogical to believe him

I read through the first 4 pages of this rant and then flipped to the end to give my opinion on the subject since you are asking.

It seems to me that somebody has a red butt over being banned. What was it that got you banned?

If John answered every one of your questions to your satisfaction with proof, I think you'd still have something to gripe about.

For me, I happen to enjoy what he has to say, but take it with a grain of salt. I also happen to find the guy hysterically funny and pretty easy going considering this type of thrashing he has to put up with.

In the end, all you have to offer, is a bunch of sour grapes.

You know, I don't get many folks here. Their arguments are not intelligent.

First, asking for proof.

Do you know what proof is? Or are you using a scientific term without understanding scientific thought? Or are you asking for religios, spiritual or other types of proof? Be specific, or rescend your questions.

Some study for you and others who demand proof.

Burden of Proof

Proof & Theory

The difference between law and theory

The nature of proof

Education should not be discounted for understanding. Many who ask for proof have no concept of what proof comprises.

Next on motivations.

Is a healer, doctor or surgeon a capitalist for asking for payment? How about a teacher? It might be a better world if money was not the basis for our civilization. I agree, but here and now try and do anything in business without money. (or soon, a chip in your butt)

The best policy is stop complaining and be an example. Make the change in your life and then for others. If it is true at all, others will be there with you.

I would think that a true sense of freedom would allow for even people who have no better answers than arguing others truths, imagined or, (laughing), provable.

ATS does exactly what it has to to be an advocate of our god given freedoms. We cant possibly continue to be free without allowing other opinions. I don't get those who would chastise anything but those taking others rights.

I tend to believe Lear more than those who would not allow his freedom to tell us his unique, and for many of us relevant views and ideas.

I'm starting to believe we are not worth the evolutionary success we need now. Many weak links in the chain. The un-viable species as we are proving to be will be members only in oblivion, and not in the greater civilization we are likely already deep within.

We are like bugs in a park in the center of a big city. We have very little or scant information. Discount any insight or ideas at the peril of all, when the pest control guy that might come through the park to put our overpopulation of idiots out of it's misery.

And, FOR GODS SAKE!, biting the hand that feeds you this opportunity to speak with millions of others is crazy! Do you see how nuts that is? Sheesh!

ZG

I don't hate John Lear. I could care less about what he says. It's just that, him and sleeper get special treatment here on ATS. They are allowed to spew stories with next to no proof, and they stay, whereas anybody else would be instantly banned. The moderators and admins, without bending their own rules, cannot have it both ways. You can't have favoritism on a site that denies ignorance. If you want John and sleeper to be on here telling stories, fine, but let other people do it as well! If the other people provide well-thought-out theses and information, why do they have to be banned or moved? It's insane.

[edit on 11/3/2007 by SonicInfinity]

reply to post by ZeroGhost


proof –noun 1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2. anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3. the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4. the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5. Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.
6. the effect of evidence in convincing the mind.
7. an arithmetical operation serving to check the correctness of a calculation
what proof is is irrelevant but why he hasnt shown any is the true question do not try to confuse those who read your post with logic or philosiphies as we do not care of the definition or theory of proof as we know what we want and that is proof that johnlear has seen these things or can show us what we need to see not what he says is there but does not reveal it

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
I don't hate John Lear. I could care less about what he says. It's just that, him and sleeper get special treatment here on ATS. They are allowed to spew stories with next to no proof, and they stay, whereas anybody else would be instantly banned. The moderators and admins, without bending their own rules, cannot have it both ways. You can't have favoritism on a site that denies ignorance. If you want John and sleeper to be on here telling stories, fine, but let other people do it as well! If the other people provide well-thought-out theses and information, why do they have to be banned or moved? It's insane.

[edit on 11/3/2007 by SonicInfinity]

EXACTLY thats what many are trying to get across in the end

Originally posted by ProTo Fire Fox
Who cares, i mean seriously. If you dont like what John lear writes then use your tiny brains and dont click on his damn forum ! its a simple conclusion. O and if you think ATS is a sham and you dont like it, BAN HIM/HER, just an idea

Take Care Every one, and John if your reading this thread, keep posting and keep up your work.

Yeah I couldnt agree more. Although I dont quite see what John see's sometimes I got too admit that he comes with both barrels loaded whenever he posts. Lots of guys take shots at him and all he does is gracefully rebutt back at them and usually with a damn good answer or two.
John is Real and IMO a Class act. Whether you believe his moon and alien views or not you cannot dispute the guys proven and well storied career in aviation and his privy too things 95% of us have not experienced.
John,Zorgon as well as jra and Westpoint keep me coming back time and time again.
Cheers.

To me, the fact that so many people on here (many with new profiles but who are far too familiar with John to be that new to any of this) get so bent out of shape over things he has talked about, almost seems to add a bit more credibility to the man else why would he stir up so much resistance???. I believe it's because people are scared silly over the possibility of a change in our society and control structures. Yes, some of it is at the brink of being non-falsafiable, but that doesn't excuse the possibility of some of the more out there things like the "soul catcher" actually existing (think quantum physics and multi-dimentionality). THese same people who work so feverishly to bash John do not seem to try and debunk quantum physics, else you would have to throw out that laser mouse you use, because guess how the laser was developed??? The debunkers seem to me more like members of the flat earth society. We ought to welcome in new ideas and changes in thinking and beliefs...the current structure and paradigm obviously isn't working as we sit here on the brink of total global destruction with nukes pointed at each other all over the world--why hang on to the old ways that got is to that? Who was it who said something about how "the truth will set you free"? There is a truth out there, it's obvious it's been covered up for decades and probably centuries. John and others seem to know something about what has been covered up, and if you debunkers would stay out of the way, and quit confusing the issues with endless pages of constant counter-productive caractor assasinations, maybe he would come forward with even more provocative information.

Originally posted by skyshow
To me, the fact that so many people on here (many with new profiles but who are far too familiar with John to be that new to any of this) get so bent out of shape over things he has talked about, almost seems to add a bit more credibility to the man else why would he stir up so much resistance???.

He stirs up resistance because he gets special treatment that few people get.

I believe it's because people are scared silly over the possibility of a change in our society and control structures.

If that's the case, why are so many people wanted Ron Paul? I'd love change in our society, but I'd also like a flying piece of jelly toast.

Yes, some of it is at the brink of being non-falsafiable, but that doesn't excuse the possibility of some of the more out there things like the "soul catcher" actually existing (think quantum physics and multi-dimentionality).

The Soul Catcher Theory is quite viable, but it's just that--a THEORY, not FACT, and it should be presented as such.

THese same people who work so feverishly to bash John do not seem to try and debunk quantum physics, else you would have to throw out that laser mouse you use, because guess how the laser was developed??? The debunkers seem to me more like members of the flat earth society. We ought to welcome in new ideas and changes in thinking and beliefs...the current structure and paradigm obviously isn't working as we sit here on the brink of total global destruction with nukes pointed at each other all over the world--why hang on to the old ways that got is to that?

I'd rather hang onto an old ideal until a truthful, pure, provable new one comes around rather than strip my old ideal the second a desirable, yet not verifiable one comes around.

Who was it who said something about how "the truth will set you free"? There is a truth out there, it's obvious it's been covered up for decades and probably centuries. John and others seem to know something about what has been covered up, and if you debunkers would stay out of the way, and quit confusing the issues with endless pages of constant counter-productive caractor assasinations, maybe he would come forward with even more provocative information.

John Lear has come forth with all the information he "knows". Holding anything back, at this point, would only be justifiable if his life was on the line, and if that was the case, he wouldn't be saying anything in the first place.

hey why hasnt in 8 pages john lear posted once i dont want answers from any of you i want it from the man who this is all about


john its time for you to stop hiding and face the music

Wow, a response post in record time...it's like you were waiting for the next Lear supporter...uh Ron Paul for change...LOL what a joke. Can we say more establishment status quo masquerading as an agent of change. If he were for real change, he would being going after the international bankers, alternative energies because oil is running out and everyone including he knows it, and talking about these coverups....these are a few of the things that keep us all in line...surely even you can see this for what it is...a well orchestrated attempt to put out there a dummie (no pun intended) to create the illusion that he represents change, to carve chunks out of the voter blocks that want change...it's end result and goal of course is to do anything but allow change. Big oil, Big Pharma, Big Military, Big Inusrance/medical care has too much to loose and that's why we have Ron Paul.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Okay, that's just outright B.S.

I have seen countless people pop up here in ATS throwing out ridiculous stories of how they are "coming clean" on one subject or other and receive HARSH criticism from the members only to have a mod or site owner pop in and tell the attackers to cease and desist before THEY catch the ban stick.

Hell, go back and read a few of my threads. Some of them VERY much walk the line in terms of following the T&C here and I have yet to catch even a warn for them. In fact, the only warn I ever received was for unintentionally attacking another user and for my repeated disregard of mod requests to stop censoring my posts with ****.


The mods here at ATS are VERY lenient when it comes to giving everyone a chance to speak their mind. Hell, my racism threads alone would have gotten my ass booted long ago on most other forums.


After reading this post by you, I am afraid I have to go with you being mad about catching the temporary ban. I also beg you to go read the thread I posted in my last post, it VERY MUCH applies to you.



Jasn

Originally posted by skyshow
Wow, a response post in record time...it's like you were waiting for the next Lear supporter...

What an excuse. i lol'D.

uh Ron Paul for change...LOL what a joke. Can we say more establishment status quo masquerading as an agent of change.

That's it. I'm done responding to you. If anybody else wants to, fine, but I've already got a headache.

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Okay, that's just outright B.S.

I have seen countless people pop up here in ATS throwing out ridiculous stories of how they are "coming clean" on one subject or other and receive HARSH criticism from the members only to have a mod or site owner pop in and tell the attackers to cease and desist before THEY catch the ban stick.

Hell, go back and read a few of my threads. Some of them VERY much walk the line in terms of following the T&C here and I have yet to catch even a warn for them. In fact, the only warn I ever received was for unintentionally attacking another user and for my repeated disregard of mod requests to stop censoring my posts with ****.


The mods here at ATS are VERY lenient when it comes to giving everyone a chance to speak their mind. Hell, my racism threads alone would have gotten my ass booted long ago on most other forums.


After reading this post by you, I am afraid I have to go with you being mad about catching the temporary ban. I also beg you to go read the thread I posted in my last post, it VERY MUCH applies to you.

Then explain to me why sleeper's thread is still in the UFO forum and flashstorminc was moved to Skunkworks. It makes no logical sense. ATS is not about entertainment; it's about finding out the truth and denying ignorance.

I don't understand why anyone on earth would want to hang on to a system that assures mutual destruction for all inhabitants on the planet. Look around you at current events, and make a few forcasts on things based on what we know, and then look at history. We need a new system and we need it yesterday! Many would agree that if our governing groups would release the information and finally come clean about what Lear and Hoagland and others are saying, that we could have a chance to save ourselves. The oil is running out, energy prices are soon going to be so high that economies everywhere will collapse. A global population of more than 7 billion and without the oil/grid in full operative state, we simply cannot sustain this population. If the powers that be know something about a Tesla based energy system, or ways to mine the moon, or anything that could help us avoid what is coming in the years ahead, but keep it covered up to maintain power and profits, then it is in fact the most horrendous crime ever committed against humanity ever!!! We need an alternative, literally! Thousands of nukes out there, and major powers armed to their eyeballs, and each with their own national interests and security issues...guess what happens as economies begin to collapse and these agregates all begin to fight over the last few fesible drops of oil...add into the mix an outdated religious structure that also keeps people from the truth and what do we have? I'd take Lear's information any day over the present set of beliefs.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


It could have something to do with mod power and judgement. I have had several threads moved when I felt they were best left where they were. The double M moved my threads like mad from SW, usually within a minute of their posting. Is this because I wasn't receiving preferential treatment? Or simply because MM felt my thread should be moved even if other mods did not?

I have had numerous threads moved to dead forums (or even the trash bin) shortly before another identical thread was allowed to stay and flourish. I never took it as anything but a mod's bad judgement. I certainly never felt it was because the other poster was getting some kind of special treatment.



Jasn

reply to post by Enthralled Fan

It seems to me that somebody has a red butt over being banned. What was it that got you banned?

Language. And um... a picture (that I found humorous)

If John answered every one of your questions to your satisfaction with proof, I think you'd still have something to gripe about.

Not so much .. many of his topics I find entertaining to read, its the attitude and the "this is fact" of him and his followers. He has no proof for any of his claims, where as so many other ATS members must research, show sources, defend their sources.

Do you know what proof is?

Tangible evidence my friend.

For instance. Mars has trees, cities and a viable atmosphere. Our scientific institutions PROVE otherwise, but his only source for the information is .. Lear.

Don't see why he can't just show some proof or at least a viable hypothesis to his claims.