Why * I Disagree With John Lear * And YOU Should Too

Been a long time since I commented on a John Lear thread. For a couple of reasons, most importantly the last time I was post banned for a few days, but also because Lear completely avoids confrontation... which in my personal opinion proves he is disingenuous.

Now, but quite honeslt if ANYONE said half the things HE says they would be banned for hoaxing.

John Lear, son of the man who made the Lear Jet. Perhaps that gave him the idea that he is important and that people would listen to him, who knows.

The thing is, he has all these contacts, NSA, NASA, CIA, HLS, ect, ect, ect .. very connected. But its is claims that give him away.

For instance.

soul collector on the moon. What a joke. Any pics? No. None. He has pics of rock formations he claims are mines, but to lazy apparently to capture the giant soul collector.

Ask him for proof... he insults you. Ask him to back up a claim, he deems you ignorant.

As I said, if I claimed to know sources to prove a giant soul collector (among many things) without proof I would be banned for a hoax.





I thought ATS denied ignorance, not embrace it.. so I ask, under what reasoning do his devout followers believe such bogas information?



And more importantly


Why, John Lear, do you not answer critics instead of ignoring or insulting your critics?

[edit on 11/2/2007 by Rockpuck]

admin edit: removed childish name calling

[edit on 11-3-2007 by Springer]

Devout follower??
Not likely. Must you be reminded, this is entertainment. If it wasn't, there would be free energy device schematics, UFO build it yourself kits, and loads upon loads of proof for most of the claims made by some of the most vocal members.
Lear a disinfo agent? A person with numerous contacts to uber-agents, underground (no pun intended) technology, low friends in high places?
Or maybe a "bird dog", throwing a little truth into outrageous claims to smoke out traitors to the new world order.

How about a retired guy with free time, formerly on the fringe of some operations, now just relaxing and having a good time.

Just my humble opinion, of course.

reply to post by gotrox

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Oh, I agree 100% .. that is exactly what he is, an old man with free time to do as he pleases...

But do you realize how many people take 100% of what he says as gospel?

That, imo, is not right.

I would like to know also about this so called

soul collector???

How did he arrive at this determination? Why does he claim there is one?
Finally, what the heck is it and how does it work???
Does this mean we die and off to the moon we go, do not pass moon, do not collect entry into heaven???



Quite interesting and i am not saying i doubt it i am just saying I would like it explained to me or given a reference on the Web to find it all laid out.

Thank you.

I have a deep respect for John Lear. He tells it how he sees it, nothing held back. He doesn't hide behind an alias or nickname, like everyone else. He gives his opinions and tells you that they are his opinions, you make up your own mind as to believe him or not.

Shame on you for picking on a member of our forum.

I have no idea who John Lear is, so I dont know if he is a joke or not. LOL Never heard the name until I accidently stumbled across this site and saw some thread where there was controversary surrounding him.

But out of sheer curiousity, I did a search for him online - and the only links that had to do with him were ATS or UFO type sites.

So, I dont know LOL

Maybe Im missing something. Maybe I need to follow him around and check him out and see what the big controversy is lol:

[edit on 2-11-2007 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo

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The controversy is imply his claims, which happen to be outrageous.



Rhain


Cool that you respect him and all, but you cannot take his word as fact, simply because its his opinion .... hes entitled to his opinion sure, but hes not entitled to make up facts.




Aigh shame on me for not accepting ignorance and accepting blindly what someone else declares fact with out scientific explanation. I should honestly be ashamed indeed.

reply to post by Rhain

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He Tells it how he sees it?
Has ever even seen this "soul collector" or anything he has ever claimed to be on the moon

These people are not "picking" on Mr.Lear these people are simply asking for him to back up his claims and show a piece of proof

Is it now against ATS rules to ask someone , as popular as they are around these boards for some proof and as for believing his opinions or not , if you do..well you must be absurd
And if you don't you are either flamed by Lear himself or his "cult" followers



[edit on 2-11-2007 by Disgustipated]

I've had an interest in UFO's and conspiracy theories as far back as I can remember. After the whole concept stopped scaring the crap out of me, I started to fill my brain with as much info as possible. To form my own opinions. During this time, my early teens, I read quite a bit on John Lear and what he believes, but even then I quickly filed them away as nonsense, and quickly left him and his theories behind in my childhood along with the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. I really don't understand how anyone buys what he has to say. I don't think he would necessarily be banned if he were anyone else, but I do think he would be quite the social pariah around here. I'll be absolutely surprised if this thread isn't taken down soon.... no one seems to be allowed to voice their true opinion about this man. Which is sad, in a forum where we are supposed to be able to be open and honest.... ATS is supposed to be the stark contrast to the oppressive censoring government we have. If this thread is left alone by the owners and moderators than maybe there is still some hope.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by Osiris1953]

reply to post by Osiris1953

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***Claps***

Nice catch 22 application.




As for the subject matter at hand his theories do (to me at least) sound WWWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY out in the 230th Dimension with little proof. But who knows the universe has engaged in strangeness before.

reply to post by Osiris1953

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Thing is, my self personally, I have no issues with UFO's. They could be real, we may not have a clue, we may not be as advanced as we think we are. The problem I have is the fact that he refuses to show evidence, which, imo, proves him wrong. Anyone with such audacious claims should show some PROOF.

reply to post by WraothAscendant

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Thank you very much. I really don't understand the fascination.

Well John used to have something written in his sig about his statements on ATS. It was something along the lines of, 'The above stated is my opinion, etc.' I find his posts entertaining, but he does tend to sometimes explain things in a way that sounds like it's presented as fact. Maybe the best thing to do is assume that everything he says is only opinion, never fact. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Maybe its time he brought that sig back.

Come now.
Mr. Lear is the reason I am here. He has probably done more for membership than any single person, and always manages to mention ATS at LEAST a half dozen times in any interview.
His stories are at least insightful, readable, encourage debate, and mostly interesting. He is good for business and entertaining.
Factual?? Hardly. The same can be said of most claims here.
But I am a hard @$$, if you don't provide proof other than words, I will just take it as a story, no matter how many "friends of friends" you heard it from.

reply to post by AcesInTheHole

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Lol, I know what your talking about, he put it up after a rash of threads and post like mine...

We all have our opinions, it just seems hes held above others between "fact and fiction" so to speak.

reply to post by Rockpuck

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Another well-respected ATS heavyweight comes forward and states the strikingly obvious-John Lear is breaking the rules and the mods aren't doing anything about it. How many member revolts and angry posts is it going to take for the hypocrisy to end?

In my experience he hasn't really refused to show evidence as much as circumvent the question entirely. I tend to believe in alien abductions and the like, but it is already in quite unsubstantiated territory which we already know. Then he swoops in and tells us something so incredibly unbelievable even the most accepted UFO and conspiracy theories seem less believable.

It would be more acceptable if there were even the slightest chance of having an "intelligent discussion" about his ideas. There is none. If you refute any of it with some kind of intelligent response, you may as well be whistling in the dark. It's pointless.

reply to post by uberarcanist

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Mayhap he is a finacial helper that they dislike themselves but are loathe to make the money situation tighter?

reply to post by MrPenny

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That particular trait runs no sprints at the speed of sound through ALOT of stuff. Here and elsewhere. I have come across it many many many times.