Slaves to Credit -- Giving Up Your Life One Loan at a Time.

I live in America, I don’t know what my credit score is and I couldn’t care less. I don’t do credit, plain and simple because I don’t want to be a slave. ‘The borrower is slave to the lender:” I only make about 35K a year, live in a two bedroom home, and own a car that everything works on and suites my needs just fine. I have enough money to go to concerts when I want (saw Greg Allman last night), and even the occasional trip to Vegas , etc. The key is to live below your means and always put money back out of every paycheck. This summer in Dallas, I saw people driving brand new SUV’s in the 105 degree heat with the windows down because high gas prices had them too broke to run the AC. I was looking over at them from my 12 yr old car in air conditioned comfort wondering how they could be so easily brainwashed. It’s only a rat-race if you’re willing to be a rat.

reply to post by resistor

I saw people driving brand new SUV’s in the 105 degree heat with the windows down because high gas prices had them too broke to run the AC. I was looking over at them from my 12 yr old car in air conditioned comfort wondering how they could be so easily brainwashed.

First, some people love the heat. My mom lives in Dallas and loves the summer heat and chooses "wind" over AC in her vehicle. She gets cold easy. LOL So what you saw really means nothing.

Second, having the windows down on a vehicle does not use any LESS gas then having your AC on.

Third, just because someone drives a new SUV doesn't mean they are brainwashed. LMAO There is no correlation there.....at all.

you know i found a way around. you can't go to jail for non payment. so borrow and don't pay. all it does is hurt the people who do actually believe that by paying will help them. just like car insurance- my rates go up because of minor claims. plus i get no interest on the balance inb my checking account unless i have over a $1000 balance(and i only get interest on the part over $1000) and it is 2% at that-but you know the bank is investing at 7% or so onALL of your money!!!years ago i went to buy a truck and negotiated to get a gooddal under the pretense i wold finance it- when i got the salesman to agree i then told him it was a cash deal and suddenly all deals were off. and always watch for the clause you can't pay off early- many banks throw that in the fine print

reply to post by greeneyedleo


I drive for a living, and have never seen so many people in new cars driving without the AC as since the price of gas has gone up. My mom is the most cold natured person I know, and NEVER drives around in the Texas heat with her AC off. If you think anyone could actually enjoy the off the charts humidity and very high temperatures we've had this year, you must be a masochist. So you really think that running the AC doesn't use more gas huh? I guess that say's it all.

I never said that driving a new SUV makes you brainwashed, but that's a nice try at a straw man argument anyway. What I said was that being so in debt that you can't afford to run the AC in your new SUV makes you brainwashed, though in retrospect, it just makes you stupid.

edit for sleep deprivation mistake

[edit on 21-10-2007 by resistor]

Good thread! I think this is the problem facing most Americans without us ever knowing it. Creditors have an agenda as we've seen watching movies like "Maxed Out" and "Fro m Freedom to Fascism." And this agenda is widening the gap between rich and poor faster than any social policy the government has come up with in the last 20 years.

Personally, I have a great credit score, or did. After watching and reading so much, I gave up on trying to maintain that great score because I found it purposeless in terms of the "bigger picture" in life. I could care less about some flucuating number that I have almost zero control over and I'm not going to be stressed out over some numbers or currency that doesn't even exist. I'm not concerned any longer with the ambigious and vague secrets to having a better credit score. I'm selling my car, paying off my credit cards and I'm out of America, probably for good. I'm not saying running away from your issues is the best action one could take, but I will contribute no further to this new generation of American Corporatism.

People say that "you won't find it better anywhere else!" Why? Have you personally left the country? Have you even left your own state? Where does your assessment of living conditions in other nations come from, the media? Songs that create a sense of "better than thou" nationalism growing up as kids? Why aren't other countries as good as the one we live in?

They think that because they constantly see Escalades, Hummers, the occasional Porsche, etc... And think, "wow, we live in such a wealthy country." Take into consideration the majority of EVERYTHING you see is purchased with BORROWED money. We are a nation of debt, not wealth. Americans as a whole don't OWN anything. We don't own our homes, our vehicles, we don't even own our powertools, or storage sheds. Everything is a tap dance around "owning" and that's exactly the intent of it's design. Have you borrowing your whole life, instead of working to accomplish ownership.

As Americans, we get approved for something and don't consider the long term effects of our actions. Because we don't have massive state and federal regulation of creditors, we have predatory lenders coming full force at the American people in every demographic, including seniors, students, blue collar, white collar. The Federal Reserve corrupted and crippled our gold standard and now these new age lendors are crippling our cash system. As the Fed had abolished physical backing of currency, creditors are currently abolishing the use of the paper dollar. They want to drive a true wedge between us and our knowledge of what is "real."

We have to become more aware of what's going on with the issues that affect us directly and immediately. Credit is the crock in the pond we're drinking from and we're all talking about the lions 20 miles away. Just like the Fed has purposely caused the deterioration of all OUR standards of living over the past 94 years through price gouging and inflation/deflation, we should be aware of the new boy on the block and that is MODERN DAY CREDITORS. We have to take action against them because it literally is a war of "us" against "them." Everyone of us is directly affected and have to band together for rights as people before our voices are swept under the rug, as was the case in 1913, with the creation of the 16th amendment.

We as a people, worldwide, shouldn't tolerate this kind of manipulation. It's unfair for every single one of us, not to mention the detrimental effects these thugs play in the ever increasing struggle of everyday life for ourselves and our loved ones.

Enough is enough.

Originally posted by resistor
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

I drive for a living, and have never seen so many people in new cars driving without the AC as since the price of gas has gone up. My mom is the most cold natured person I know, and NEVER drives around in the Texas heat with her AC off. If you think anyone could actually enjoy the off the charts humidity and very high temperatures we've had this year, you must be a masochist. So you really think that running the AC doesn't use more gas huh? I guess that say's it all.

Yes, there are plenty of "experts" out there saying that using AC in your vehicle does not use MORE gas, then if you have your windows rolled down. I did not just make it up. I never said "using AC" vs "not using AC"....simply "using AC" vs "rolled down windows". Some say that it actually uses more gas having your windows rolled down.

As far as my mom. She drives a convertable all summer long - in Dallas. Call her whatever you want.

I never said that driving a new SUV makes you brainwashed, but that's a nice try at a straw man argument anyway. What I said was that being so in debt that you can't afford to run the AC in your new SUV makes you brainwashed, though in retrospect, it just makes you stupid.

I suppose unless we know each driver's financial status, its all just opinion and speculation anyways.

[edit on 21-10-2007 by greeneyedleo]

Thanks for all the replies fellow ATS'ers.


Now to address some comments.


Laziness in no way factored in to my problem.

The job at which I worked closed down with less than a week's notice. I (and several others) applied for unemployment and were rejected several times.

The job situation here was horrible (and still is actually). All of us spent several months trying to find new jobs.

Maybe you don't know this, but when you don't work your income is ZERO. Yet, I still had a $625 a month rent payment (rent here is attrocious since this is a "college" town), food to buy, car payment ($225), power bill (roughly $100 a month), phone bill ($35 a month), car insurance ($79 a month) and various other REQUIREMENTS (ie: toilet paper and other home needs).

When you have no income and have to borrow from family just to pay your bills, then even $12 bucks can indeed be hard to come up with. However, I wasn't lucky enough to have a $12 payment to make. My minimum at that time was around $70 bucks. However, that first month that I was unable to pay on time, I gained a late charge of $45 dollars. Therefore, my minimum payment went to $115. Then the next month, another late charge and another 75 bucks. That minimum payment added up with a quickness. After the 3 months, my minimum payment was over the $500 mark that was due just to get back on track. I payed that and more first thing and STILL have not recovered for it.


I don't know where some of you guys live, but here, if you have no credit you are NOTHING. Literally 99% of everything you do requires a credit score or else a HUGE down payment. Hell, if you buy a $2000 car here and don't have the required "good" credit score, your down payment is 1000 bucks and your payments are STILL a ridiculous amount.

Your credit score dominates your life. How? Because if you don't have a good one, EVEN IF your application for something is approved, you either get stuck with a huge deposit (for a rental property) or you get stuck with a 30% interest rate. Let's not even get into having NO credit. I'll keep that one simple, my wife has no credit (because she has never developed a file by paying ALL of her expenses in cash) and she can get absolutely NOTHING in her name. She can't even get the power turned on in her name WITH a deposit. She can't get a car without at LEAST a 25% down payment, and even then her interest rates sit at LEAST at 16%.


I use to feel exactly the same as some of you guys and so did my friend. However, as I said before, you will NOT find anyone more responsible with money that he is and his tune is quickly changing, just as mine did.


Credit is a crutch, and in most cases, a REQUIREMENT.


To the person that said a charge off was the way to go. I use to think that as well, however, there is a problem there as well. IF you charge off a credit card, in most cases they will continue to report that card as a charge off every single month until it is paid in full. So, if you go a year without payment, you effectively end up with 12 charge offs when you only have one.

Technically, this practice is illegal. Yet, there isn't much you can do about it without legal assistance, and we ALL know how expensive that can be.


I only started this thread in the hopes of helping someone else BEFORE it happens to them. If you would like to criticize me and make assumptions that are (I promise) wrong, that's okay too. I am telling it exactly as it happened and I PROMISE it can, and likely will, happen to you to.

As I said, the credit system is designed so it's hard to maintain "good" credit unless you are wealthy enough to keep it up no matter what happens to you.

All it takes, for a normal working class man or woman, is a month of hardship to throw 10 years or more of perfect credit history down the toilet.


Credit is a scam that effects all of us not fortunate enough to have the cash on hand to pay for EVERYTHING.



Think I ended up in this situation because of laziness all you want. I can assure you that you are wrong. I fell into hard times for a few months several years ago and I'm still paying for it to this day.


Just another short story for your amusement.


My father passed away not long before I lost my job. Several months after he died, I received his life insurance money. At that point, I completely paid off everything I owed and for the next two years was able to pay cash for everything I purchased.

During this time, I purchased a home and a new truck and paid ALL of my bills at least a year in advance.

Then, a year ago, the motor on my truck frozen up and I didn't have the money to fix it. So, I checked the local dealerships and tried to find a suitable replacement.

EACH AND EVERY TIME I got down to the nitty gritty of getting the vehicle financed I was either turned down or the down payment was more than the cost of a new motor for my old truck. When I asked them what was going on, they said I had no credit history for the last couple of years and asked why that was. When I told them it was because I had the cash to pay for everything. They looked at me like I was crazy and said something along the lines of, "Why would you do that? You should have financed it to build your credit score."

What's the point? The fact that I paid cash for my goods and services for the past several years HURT ME when the time came that I no longer had several thousand in cash to pay for a vehicle.

If you are a middle or lower class citizen, you better watch your butt when it comes to your credit. All it takes is ONE small period of hard times for you to end up in credit hell.


Thanks again for the comments and thanks to those couple of you who felt the need to "correct" my story based on your opinion.

I have told this EXACTLY as it happened.


Jasn

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


GREAT post DFB.

If I could, I would applaud you hahaha. Maybe a kind mod will come along and do it for me.

Instead, you get a star.

Thanks for the contribution.
Jasn

Um, what about if one doesn't get a credit card at all . I am only 19, but, thus far, I don't plan on getting one (as I am content with a debit card). Sure, my mom got me one (that she uses to make good credit for me), but I don't use it. I have heard, through commercial and such, of people in credit card debt and thus I will stay clear of 'em .

reply to post by resistor


I'm glad that is working out well for you resistor. I made that attempt as well.

Unfortunately, 3 kids, a marriage and a plethora of necessary bills (combined with living in a town where you can't make 35k a year without the right degree) made it impossible.

Hopefully you won't hit any hurdle that leaves you no choice but to get a line of credit or lose everything you have.

God knows, it has happened to many many many people in this country.


All it takes is a car wreck or a heart attack to ruin you financially for life. Even if you do have insurance.


Thanks for the contribution.


Jasn

reply to post by they see ALL


You should thank your mom hahahaa...many times over. That's a very good thing she is doing for you.


Unfortunately, as stated before, having no credit cripples you worse than bad credit.



Jasn

Originally posted by SimiusDei
Unfortunately, as stated before, having no credit cripples you worse than bad credit.

Is this a fact? I must admit, I only read a bit of the opening post of this thread.

Ive never had a problem with credit, and hope I never will.. I never even gave much thought to our credit system until the past couple years I have been solicited by my homeowners policy to add a 'identity theft' policy..

The credit bureaus collect all this information on you so they can get paid by financial institutions for credits checks, they use your social security as an identifier.. someone uses your ss number, the credit bureau starts reporting info based on the ss number theft... and their system is hard to manage and get corrections made that you have to have a third party help you... so basically they get all the benefit with no risk, and you have to be the watchdog on your own reports....

THAT my friends is the scam!

reply to post by xander68


You brought up ANOTHER great point xander.

Identity theft is another issue that is beyond your control that can ruin you financially for life.

Also, another part of the credit sham. When all of those companies that REQUIRE credit checks actually run that credit check, guess what? It HURTS YOUR CREDIT.

You tell me, what does having to submit to a required credit check say about you as a person? Does that say that you are unreliable when it comes to paying your bills?

NO! It may just say that you applied for a new job.


However, it hurts your credit score in most cases, explain THAT ONE to me.


Jasn

My credit problems started after I got a govt. loan. The loan officer is a known coc aine dealer and was arrested on a trafficking charge just after I finally got my loan. I started repaying my loan soon after I got it. After I had it repaid, I started getting letters from the federal govt saying that I was delinquent paying my loan. I thought that there was some simple mistake and asked for a meeting with the loan officer. After reviewing my records, he saw that the loan was repaid but told me "It doesn't matter what the records say, you are going to repay the loan again". After 2 hearings where my lawyer was not allowed to prove that I had re payed and I don't even know how many shouting matches, I finally found somebody that would listen to me. Not only had I repaid it, but I had repaid it early and overpaid it about $7,500. I was told that it had been floating around for 3 1/2 years and nothing had been done with it. I had 2 national appeals division hearings, had him investigated by the office of inspector general out of the Atlanta, Ga. office and the Washington D.C.(they told me that he had never been involved in drugs in any way even after I sent them a copy of a newspaper article where he had been arrested for coc aine trafficking) , I contacted 2 congressmen and 2 senators with no results. My business is completely destroyed to the point that I will never recover, but that SOB still has his job.

reply to post by MBF


Sorry to hear that MBF. Unfortunately, stories like yours are all too common.

Perhaps being a fellow Georgia resident, you can vouch for me when I say that you can do hardly ANYTHING around here without good credit. Seeing as how we likely must go through the same companies to obtain our life necessities.


Thanks for contributing!
Jasn

reply to post by SimiusDei



I have to disagree, use debit card instead of credit card and when you really want to buy something dont' use credit card, just have the money to pay for it, just like Europe we do, you want to buy a car, pay the cash, otherwise you are paying almost twice as much what you are supposed to pay and that is bunch of bull.... if you don't make 25$ an hour you are nothing, get a good education, 1st of find the highest paying jobs and know that you can buy in 6-8 years your own house with cash, that's my goal and I am sure going to do it, because I ain't paying fking twice for the house I am trying to buy by borrowing money from the bank.

Originally posted by SimiusDei


Sorry to hear that MBF. Unfortunately, stories like yours are all too common.

Perhaps being a fellow Georgia resident, you can vouch for me when I say that you can do hardly ANYTHING around here without good credit. Seeing as how we likely must go through the same companies to obtain our life necessities.


Thanks for contributing!
Jasn

If they could find a way to make you to have pay to go to the bathroom with a credit card, they would!!!

I just can't see how they can justify having your credit checked costing you points. They rely too much on their system.

My brother was building a store and went to one bank too many checking the interest rates and as the result he was turned down for a loan because he lost enough points on his credit rating. It just ain't right.

reply to post by Odessit


If only it were so easy.


I would also love to be in a situation where you can save enough money in 6 to 8 years to pay cash for a home.

Considering that a 2 bedroom home in a DECENT neighborhood where I live runs into the 165,000 range, I would have to make, what?, 125k a year in order to pay cash for it after the 6 years?

Of course, I'd still have to factor in the place I was renting for that 6 years and all the bills that go with that place. Not to mention eating and taking care of children and the wife.



Jasn

EDIT TO ADD: I have a BAS in Computer Science. When I first graduated, the average pay for this degree was $23 an hour. Now, in my area, it is $6.75.

I have an excellent education. Yet, I can make more working at Wal-Mart.

I knew I should have went the Psychologist route.

[edit on 21-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

They gonna get you one way or the other. It's hard to get ahead.