I think we are very lucky to have credit. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to 'buy' and live in your house untill your like 50 , later for some people.

But the very reason for us not being able to own those things are the very reasons we can now "borrow" to own them. Look at generations before us. Both sides of my grandparents owned their homes outright and they were lower middle and middle class. My mother and father still owe money on their homes and probably always will until they're dead.




Edit: I meant to hit reply instead of quote. That's 20 points if Fredt were to catch that.



[edit on 22-10-2007 by DeadFlagBlues]

The taxes on our property went up 3 times in the same year. And not just a little. They went up 4000 dollars or thereabouts, and they required we pay the difference immediately, since it hadn't been rolled into our monthly payments on the mortgage, which was still based on the original purchase price.

To give you some idea, the value of our home skyrocketed to nearly 300k but it was a 100k home, and it did this over the course of about 4 months. In that same year, my mom, who had been living with us and bringing in additional 1k a month, died. She wasn't a rich woman, so when she died, there wasn't a Will or inheritance. So subtract 1k. My oldest, who was living with us and making a monthly payment of nearly 1k, moved to another state. So subtract another 1k. And I was diagnosed with diabetes (to add to the breast cancer, radical masectomy, coma on total life support and fibro myalgia from the previous 10 years). So subtract another 200 dollars a month for special foods and so forth.

Credit was the only way we could survive. And it looks as if it's gonna bite us so hard on the hindquarters, we'll be homeless before the next tax year rolls around. Hubby wants to declare bankruptcy but I told him i didn't feel comfortable with that idea, since it ends up costing the taxpayers more in taxes and it's not their fault that we've had such a weird and devastating streak of bad events.

For the clincher, hubby, who has been working at the same job for 23 years, retired due to poor health. His retirement doesn't even scratch the surface of our monthly debts and he's having one heckuvatime finding another job that doesn't compromise his health, to supplement it.

I have no clue how we're gonna get out of this one. Prayer seems to be the only avenue.

Originally posted by SimiusDei

Jasn

EDIT TO ADD: I have a BAS in Computer Science. When I first graduated, the average pay for this degree was $23 an hour. Now, in my area, it is $6.75.

I have an excellent education. Yet, I can make more working at Wal-Mart.

I knew I should have went the Psychologist route.

[edit on 21-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

I got degrees in math, science and chemistry and was working on a BS in mechanical engineering and was offered a full scholarship in physics when my father asked me to stay out one quarter to help him plant the crops. I'm well educated, but can't make a living in farming.

A guy that I went to college with has offered me a job helping him in civil engineering and I am going to help him soon. He told me how much money he was making part time(six figures). Yep, I think I am gonna help him.

I had EXCELLENT CREDIT until my divorce 8 years ago.
I had a 1 yr old child and myself to care for and had been out of work since my 2nd trimester because my ex and I had decided it would be best for our son if I stayed home. So, my son's father comes home 4 days after my son's 1st bday and says he wants a divorce and asks me to move out so I packed up our stuff and my son and I hit the road. Since I had excellent credit I was able to rent an apartment immed. but finding a job in my field after being out of the circuit for 2 years was almost impossible. I ended up having to take a job with a temp agency at $9.00 hr just to get my foot back in the door. But I still had that excellent credit and I used it, not for the latest trend but to feed and shelter my baby boy, I had no choice, there was no one to help us except for me (and that credit card)
So fast forward 6 months later and I am struggling tokeep my son fed much less keep up with the credit payments, something had to give and it was my credit. It was not an easy thing to do but I really had no other option, I declared bankruptcy the next year.
That was 7 years ago, I am remarried with 2 more babies, I havent even looked at my credit for 7 years, I have no desire to have credit ever again, I dont care what my score is. My husband feels the same, we have a mortgage and a car payment because those are the 2 things we cant afford outright beyond that if we cant pay cash we dont want it. Credit sucks and should never be a human beings value.

Originally posted by TKainZero
I don't know how to say it better then that...and don't know what we can do about it...

We can abolish the credit system, that's one thing we can do. Logically speaking, we could switch to another standard, whether it be gold, silver, or something actually tangible. Once we do that, then we might have a shot at making a difference. Either that, or the world will have to declare bankruptcy. And we all know that that's not going to happen. So, the best we can do is to try and find a way to get our representatives to understand that we don't like the Credit system, and to abolish it in favor of something that works.

Just my $0.02 though. Take from it what you will.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
We can abolish the credit system, that's one thing we can do. Logically speaking, we could switch to another standard, whether it be gold, silver, or something actually tangible. Once we do that, then we might have a shot at making a difference. Either that, or the world will have to declare bankruptcy. And we all know that that's not going to happen. So, the best we can do is to try and find a way to get our representatives to understand that we don't like the Credit system, and to abolish it in favor of something that works.
TheBorg

I'm with you on that.

The law of business is thus: supply and demand.

Therefore; less demand will equal too much supply, which will cause the loaners to lower their interest rates, and do other attractive things to suck people into a credit card or contract with accruing interest, fixed or not. (not fixed means that legally, 1% interest could become 100% interest, and you'd legally have to pay all of the extra, its the law).

They'll offer higher starting avail balances, quicker raising avail balances, no payments til XXXX, no interest til XXXX, etc.

And the unfortunate 'unintelligents' of our society will fall for it like the poor suckers they are, never having a thing and just wanting so much, having a "hood dream" if you will, to get up out the ghetto.

So they'll always be enslaved, but this does not mean that a growing minority couldn't free themselves from the bonds of credit. Many individuals live life this way, without using credit, as cited above by posters. So its certainly do-able later into life, even with a family, a house, car, kids, etc. If you and your partner have good paying jobs.

But what it would require is to curb greed in the individual, the desire to get this an get that, or for their family. Then the rational, illogical mind comes back in saying, you deserve it! its your money, you earned it through hard work! so now get rid of it on this junk item!

So I dont think we the people will ever replace it entirely, but a section of us can free ourselves from it and live without it. And this is what I intend to do.

In doing so, the more who dont use credit, the more "available" credit will be forced to become, so poorer and poorer people will end up getting suckered in. But when they learn, if they learn, maybe they can join us. In the end, the Usurers lose profits in the millions of dollars monthly, just from a minority splinter of a society not using cred anymore.

In Australia I have noticed over the last 5 years a trend. People have either bought into the whole I 'need' credit thing or have simplified their life and 'given up' attaining the material objex. Those that have bought in are on the tread mill vigorously running on the spot after the new car, or the bigger home. those that ' gave up' have become vastly happier. Just an observation from a career bartender.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
We HAVE TO HAVE credit in America.. the average cost of anything we buy from clothes to TV's to hell, food, is so damn expensive it far out paces our actual wages. Hence why America's average account is actually negative, and the only time that has happened was during the great depression.

Houses should not be 500k, they should never be so expensive that only 5% of the country actually makes enough to buy a house outright within a few years of savings.

How expensive ?
Here in Romania the gas is 1.27$/liter , or 4.82$/gallon, and many other prices are higher than in EU. I and many other people live very well from our wages, no need to borrow anything. Maybe we do not spend as much.

People borrow to buy a car, or a house - a car I do not need, but with the house there is a problem, everybody needs one. And needs to borrow to get it. This is capitalism, be a slave to those who give you money they don't have



[edit on 22-10-2007 by pai mei]

We absolutely do not need credit in America!

I have lived with credit, and without it.

When I had gas credit card, and regular credit cards, I was buying all kinds of things I liked. Filling up my tank instead of just half-way, buying things I'd normally "wait til i get paid" to buy. You know the drill. It's an addiction of convenience, a disease of sorts, that starts just like this. I'd get cash advanced off the credit card when i needed cash for .. shall we say.. things that are not taxed or sold in stores.

I was young and dumb, naive, thinking since mommy raised me, and mommy said she will cover me if i cant pay that month, that mommy would really be able to. but then mommy fell into financial ruin as I did, and mommy couldnt do what mommy promised, and runetang screwed himself in the process. Lived and learned.

Now, WITHOUT CREDIT, I buy gasoline with cash. in USD, 87 octane gas is around $2.72 a gallon where I live at the moment, and I buy gas usually 10 bux at a time. When I need more, I get more. No credit. Credit means throw the drink, and cigs, and the snack, and the chips on the bill too! That way I can pay later! Right .... wrong thinking.

I have saved quite a bit of money by not having credit.

I wont even carry this over into the retail world, where I could be buying computers, game systems, expensive clothings, shoes, music, games, software, upgrades, car parts, accessories, anything else a greedy little heart could desire?

Really never understood the concept of credit, I didn't know it screwed people over this badly. I never understood why my mother used credit when she didn't need to, even people that can afford to pay are suckered in by the carrots that credit companies dangle to capture more prey.

I'm always confused about the chase for money and power, especially in ways like this. Why anyone would want to gain money or power from other people's misfortune is beyond me. Especially when you think what they use this money or power for? What exactly is gained for them? Material objects? pride that they're "better" than everybody else?

Just doesn't make much sense to me. The things they want they don't need, and their desires can be controlled. They control their own minds, everyone controls their own mind. Any desires you have can be controlled and they do not need to be explored. If you're not going to gain more than what you're costing other people, why even do them? What are you even gaining that the loss of lives, the loss of a decent way of life to so many is a justifiable cost? Material objects? Why are material objects that satisfy no need coveted so much by society? Why diamonds? Why gold? What purpose do these materials actually serve?

My circumstance has allowed me to get a perspective free of bias, and it makes me question everything that is accepted as the norm by society. This whole thing would go a lot easier if people could just accept who they are, and didn't need to look to harmful and illogical activities to cover-up their own insecurities.

credit is needed for certain things but the key is to play the banker's game and win at it.

1. get your credit as perfect as you can. Dispute any negative score or old debt.

Lets say chase bank says you were late on a payment for a credit card. Once you dispute this, chase has 30 days to offer proof to the credit agency that you were in fact late. Guess what, 95% of the time they dont meet that deadline. Result, you get that late score removed.

Lets say you ran up a credit card in college and just never paid it. Again you can dispute the debt with the credit agency. Chances are that company wont respond in time and tadaa its gone.

2. Use that credit score while you can - get that home loan. get that cell phone. get the car loan, etc.

3. my favorite step - accept any and all credit offers from chase bank, citibank, american express, etc. No go enjoy yourself. Take a cruise. Go buy a bigscreen tv. get cash advances. go to dinner at fancy restaurants. heck, i even used one credit card with so large of a credit limit to pay off my student loan and my car loan ! The minimum payments are incredibly small so why not borrow money if I only have to pay back 12 dollars per month. Efentually though the debt overwhelms you but so what. If I borrow too much and cant pay oh well. Im not going to jail because I cant pay my bills

4. liquidate - close out your bank accounts. this means paying bills with money orders for the next several years. crediters can go after your checking or savings account money

Ultimately crediters cant do much. They could go to court and get a percentage of your wages each month but they never do that. Why, well simply because if it comes down to that you can just file bankruptcy and avoid it. Crediters cant put you in jail although they will lie often and threaten to call the police (i always laugh when they try that ol lie)

They wont come after your car title if you have one. Simple again way to avoid that. Either go borrow money against the title so you dont own it or sell the car to your spouse and transfer the title to them. They cant take your spouse property for your bad credit.

They didnt come after my wife and she owed $50,000 in credit card debt. No wages taken, heck they didnt even try and take her car title. Although they could have tried but we'd have simply sold that car before they would have been able to (and they know this which is why they dont do much)

5 years go by and the stupid bankers start sending us credit card apps all over again. And I dont feel one iota of guilt. Im not spending any gold. Im using digits created from thin air.

Some things to not do...

1. never ever file bankruptcy. It remains on file forever although it only affects credit scores for 10 years. the only thing bankruptcy does is stop the phone calls from creditors

2. never agree to one of those silly debt consolidation agencys. Those companies are in fact owned by the same dam creditors like chase bank. Its just another way to trick you into paying a debt they created from thin air.

3. never ever ever make a single payment once you stop paying your debts. You can actually start the 5-7 year cycle all over again. In some states making one payment is like creating a new account and you have to wait even longer for this to phase out off your credit.

Just remember, all credit history whether good or bad is gone after 5 to 7 years depending on your state. Any activity on an old debt and it starts over.

My parents once tried to make me feel guilty for not paying my credit cards off when I lost my job a few years ago. My point, why should i use up my savings to pay debt when i need that money. And the debt they gave me was created from thin air.I should suffer and go hungry because someone pushed a key on a computer ???
[edit on 22-10-2007 by admriker444]

[edit on 22-10-2007 by admriker444]

The problem isn't the things you don't need, it's the things that you DO.

A home, a car, electricity, telephone. Things of that nature.

Naturally, someone who gets 10 credit cards and loads them all up with crap they don't need has no one to blame but themselves.

However, the problem comes in when people are assigned a VALUE called a credit score.

Because of the "value" their home can cost more, their car can cost more and the other necessities can cost more. Then, you have these good and HONEST people stuck in a situation where they have no choice but to use a credit card that they can't afford to pay back just to buy food for their families. Then, as a result of the constantly growing debt, they find themselves having to use the credit cards just to pay the bills. It's a never ending cycle that does nothing but continually drive the family to bankruptcy.

It's a scam.....nothing more, nothing less. People go to prison daily for doing the same thing to elderly and/or gullible people all over the country. The only difference is, this scam is government and corporate sponsored.


It's a freaking disgrace.


Jasn