Slaves to Credit -- Giving Up Your Life One Loan at a Time.

reply to post by C0le

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I love these "simple solution" ideas.


Apparently you have never fell on hard times that put you in the red financially.

Let's see, what could possibly do such a thing to someone?


Medical Emergency, even WITH insurance.
Death in the family.
Natural disaster.
Vehicle accident.
Vehicle problems.
A variety of home problems.
Divorce.
Children.
Family in general.

EDIT: Sorry, double post as a result of poor net connection.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

I'll only reply to the first post here.

Guys.. a 22 year old kid with no job got turned down for a signature loan?

sounds pretty normal to me.

credit score dropped because you didnt make the minimum $35 payment on a $ 600 Visa loan?

come on guys.. this isnt some conspiracy.. it's common sense.


if you borrow money, you have to repay the loan.

Banks make NOTHING when they forclose... they lose money.
that's why they require you to have the ability to pay.


Ther OP didnt get turned down because his score was too low.. he got turned down because he had a negative debt to income ratio.

would you loan an honest man money if he hasnt had a job in 3 months?

neither would I.
and BTW.. anyone with enough sense to have 100k liquid cash, is smart enough to know that money is better spent invested, making nice return at close to 10%, while you buy that home with the banks money at close to 5 %.


Maybe the reason the OP cant get a loan is simply he doesnt understand how credit works.

"hey Im a 22 year old kid.. with no employment for 3 months ( I know have a 90 day late payment history) and I need a loan with NO collateral.."

" I have no ability to repay this loan, but I want the cash"

It must be some conspiracy.




man please..
lets get real here for a change.

reply to post by SimiusDei

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Medical Emergency, even WITH insurance. Its called saving money instead of buying useless crap. Plan for the future.
Death in the family. Same as above.
Natural disaster. Same as above
Vehicle accident. Cant afford to fix it, cant afford to own it.
Vehicle problems.Same as above
A variety of home problems.same as above.
Divorce.Prenup
Children. Cant afford to feed an clothe them, then its extremely irresponsible to have them.
Family in general.Same as above.

reply to post by Astyanax

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Congratulations.

You did a wonderful job of selective responding while not answering any question posed to you in a legitimate way.

As much as you may find it "hard to believe" that renting a home requires a credit check and adequate credit score, it is, in fact, TRUE.

You say that you rent or lease in your country when it comes to homes until you can afford to pay cash for them. Here, renting requires a pretty good credit score and leasing requires an EXCELLENT credit score.

In regards to the vehicle, since you didn't notice, there is no public transportation in my town.


Thanks again for not providing any sort of logical answer to the issues you say are so simple to overcome.

Since it has obviously not sunk it yet that credit is REQUIRED for most necessities in Amerika unless you have the solid cash to cover them all, I won't bother with your replies from here on out. All you are doing is recycling the same drivel based on your opinion of how things are in a country you are not a part of. If things are so easily solved in your area of the world, count yourself lucky.

Jasn

It's great in America you can't be discriminated against for Race, Color, Sex etc., but those 3 little numbers are just as bad if not worse then any of the other labels.

I mean come on they look at your score and if you cant afford it they charge you more (ie Higher Intrest) tell me thats not Discrimination of the highest order.

The credit game is a Scam I fought for months to get something removed that shouldnt have been on one of my reports. Just to have the next company add it to thier files, after I got it removed from the previous company, because they saw activity.

Also the whole turning away from cash thing is becoming more prevalent but guess what, IT'S NOT LEGAL. I have had this issue with more than one landlord and after talking to a few attorneys I was informed its not legal to not take cash for such things as rent. Push the issue they will take your cash!!

[edit on 22-10-2007 by ATruGod]

[edit on 22-10-2007 by ATruGod]

This is disgusting.

And people wonder why there's a "credit crunch" with bankruptcies and foreclosures going through the roof.

This is truly a testament to how many people have been completely brainwashed by the credit industry.

It's not that the super rich don't use credit because they're super rich... they're super rich because they don't use credit!

It's very simple: If you have to buy something on credit, YOU CAN NOT AFFORD IT!

All these crap excuses for when something bad happens you just have to charge it on the credit card are just that, crap excuses.

If you have say $2000 a month in expenses, you should have $6-10,000 sitting in the bank for emergencies. It's not a savings for a new bigscreen TV. It's not for a car (unless yours suddenly explodes). It is for EMERGENCIES.

A little financial responsibility means you don't have anything to whine about when bad times fall upon you. Making excuses for why you can't take care of yourself only means you are rationalizing your slavery, which is exactly what your slave masters like Chase, Citibank, and American Express want.



Oh, and to the people talking about running up a bunch of debt intending not to pay it back. That is called theft, and you deserve what happens to you.

reply to post by Ninja-san

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Yes, as a matter of fact I would loan an honest man money when he fell on hard times.

As a matter of fact, I have done it on many an occasion.

If you happened to miss the post where I talked about the insurance money I received, at that time I loaned an honest man and his wife $18,500 to help him and his family out after a medical emergency and guess what? It took him 3 years, but he paid back every single dime of it.


At that time, I had an EXCELLENT credit history. PRISTINE actually. There was nothing in my history (except the past 3 months) that would suggest I MIGHT not pay back the loan. As a matter of fact, even during that 3 months I paid every single bill I had, ON TIME except for that stupid credit card. And yes, those were all included in my credit report that was pulled.

And guess what else? I also had a SPOTLESS record with said bank that went back to my 16th birthday. The loan officer was all set and ready to give me the loan but was unable due to my CREDIT SCORE alone. Why? Because they had just been taken over by Bank of America. Had I needed it 4 months earlier, I would have gotten the loan without DOUBT. Job or no job.


The problem with a few of you guys is that you are making assumptions based on absolutely NOTHING.

You seem to ignore the fact that I stated that I would ONLY spend as much as I could afford to pay back EACH MONTH. The problem came when a necessary 600 dollars was added to my debt just before my job was eliminated. There was absolutely nothing I could have done differently given the situation. However, had I been psychic and known my job was coming to an end sooner, I could have found another job long beforehand and my problem wouldn't have happened.

You guys seem to make the assumption that I bought the fanciest things I could to put in my 10 bedroom, 6 bath home. And apparently I took those fancy things to that home in one of my Bentleys.


As I have stated before, I have NEVER lived beyond my means and I was VERY responsible with my credit. I paid every bill I ever had on time and just happened to get caught in a bad situation.

Nothing more, nothing less.


You people presume to know things you do not. And you obviously have a hard time reading without seeing things that are not there, while missing the things that are.


Jasn

reply to post by apc

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Actually, most of the super rich do indeed use credit. However, they use CORPORATE CREDIT.

Also, the majority of the super rich were born into it and thus had no true obstacles to overcome.


As has been said many times before, "behind every great fortune is a great crime."

Please, explain to me how exactly someone born and raised in the lower to middle class manages to get ahead in life without credit.


Thanks,
Jasn

Uh... maybe by working? Not spending more than they make? Saving money?

You are wrong thinking the majority of the "rich" are born into it. The majority of millionaires today are first generation. Meaning THEY made their money.

You've been duped to believe you can't become wealthy and have to whip out that credit card for every purchase.

It's a lie.

Please, oh mighty gods of wisdom, tell me one time that I have said I used my credit cards for anything that I couldn't afford.

Tell me where I talked about all the non necessities that I have purchased.

Show me one instance of me saying I purchased a big screen T.V. on my credit card. Hell, show me where I said I bought a small screen one or even a toaster for that matter.

You know what the majority of my credit card purchases were? Groceries. Yep, that's right.

I don't think I ever bought a single electronic or anything other JUNK on my cards.


I have explained, time and time again in this thread, that I paid my credit cards off almost every single month.

I ONLY put as much on them as I could afford to pay off in a months time, UNTIL I had the one incidental come up that I had no choice but to throw on the card and COINCIDENTALLY, my job was eliminated shortly thereafter.


I'm sorry you guys but I was NOT born into money.

I was raised middle class and I AM middle class.

I worked and made decent money and NEVER lived beyond my means. Yet, one of those bad things just happened through no fault of my own.

And in regards to the comment about me not having kids if I couldn't take care of them. I personally take a GREAT DEAL of offense to that and you disgust me with your presumptions. Not that it's any of your business, but those children are NOT mine by birth. They are the children of my wife and their dad is a complete deadbeat.

But, you know what? I married my wife BECAUSE I LOVE HER and, in turn, I married her children because I LOVE THEM. They are my children even if I didn't make them and I bust my ASS to support them. Yes, they make things a bit more difficult financially, but THEY ARE WORTH EVERY BIT OF IT.


Congratulations,

You are the first member of ATS to ever officially PISS ME OFF. For that reason, I will end my discussion with you because there is no intelligent discussion to be found with someone of your like. I made a promise, a short time back, to the mods to avoid any such situations as this and I plan on keeping it.

apc

We would've needed close to 10k+ sitting in the bank, on a one person income, with three kids, to avoid trouble. I went in a coma, barely survived it and haven't been able to work a steady job ever since. So hubby is the only bread winner. To top it off, i had breast cancer, chemotherapy and was diagnosed with diabetes which appears to have been brought on by the chemo. There was no way to foresee any of that, and there was definitely no way to foresee that our property would increase in value nearly 200k in less than six months.

Your ideas are good, but the unforeseen can wreak havoc on your finances.

My illogical answers


Thank you kindly. I'm getting a bit tired of this little confab, though.

Perhaps you would direct me to the questions I did not answer, and provide some guidelines for providing answers you consider 'legitimate'. While you're at it, you might also point out those posts where you talked about paying off your car and home liabilities, too -- the ones I appear to have missed.


And you didn't know this before you incurred your various debts? Before you put yourself at risk of a bad rating?


I noticed. I responded -- didn't you notice? I suggested that the solution was to sell the car and buy a cheap old heap, or move to a place where public transport is available. Or... oh, forget it. Why should I keep coddling your complaints for you? I'm not saying you didn't have some bad luck. But you're making out that this disaster was unavoidable. Well, were you or weren't you in hock before you lost your job?. Of course you were. So how did that happen? Who was responsible for that?


I should imagine the 'logical answer' would be to stay out of debt. Use your credit card as a debit card, as one of the other posters suggested, rather than buying bricks and mortar with plastic.


We have problems you and your cosseted fellow-citizens cannot even begin to imagine living with. As for my drivel, it is the result of a lifetime spent travelling the world and engaging thoroughly with it. I wasn't born rich; my father worked for a salary all his life. Neither am I particularly rich now (certainly not by the opulent standards of America); and what I have, I have made for myself.

And frankly, that's quite enough both about me and from me.

reply to post by undo

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Indeed.

The sad thing is, a good many of the American's that have fallen victim to credit and credit cards have done so out of NECESSITY.

Unfortunately, people like APC are to blinded by the their assumptions to understand that.

I would be willing to bet that APC was born into money and has never actually had to struggle a day in their life. He/she certainly has the attitude of a spoiled rich kid.

Almost every member of my family has been through the same problems as you, be it a heart attack or diabetes, most of them are suffering financially now as a result.

It's a sad thing that a heart attack, diabetes or cancer (or something of the same nature) can almost ruin not only your life but the lives of all those that depend on you.

My condolences for your hard times and I wish you the best,
Jasn

Nothing wrong with buying food, but you don't need credit cards to do it with. I myself came from a poor but proud family as a child, but we worked hard together and pulled ourselves up to the middle class, but in the mean time we learned how to make the most with the little money we had.

Even today you can feed a family of 5 for less than $100 a week and eat good.

How can this be done? Well you need to find a local farmers wholesale market. The kind of market that sells to all supermarkets, they will sell you or even give you veggies for almost nothing, enough to feed 20 children a month. I still shop this way at a place called the Eastern Market here in Detroit, Michigan. I can buy a 100 pound sack of potatoes for $5 to $10.
Cases of greens for $3 to $6. Beans $4 a case. Fruits will vary at $1 dollar a case to $10. And if your really smart you wait until the market is near close and they vendors almost give the food away at $1 of $2 a case because they don't want to leave with the produce. All of this produce is what was not sold to the supermarket or was excess, so that is why these vendors are able to sell it so cheap, because it would have gone to the dumpsters.


Their are many outlets such as the Eastern Market throughout the USA, but people think it is a must to go and pay retail or much higher for foods they eat.

OK, so you can't find an market for foods like this, then you need to start collect info on the farmers in your area and rural markets that sell produce. Start to can, and preserve veggies. Buy dried beans and Rice at wholesale prices. Rice is a great staple and you can buy it for about $10 to $20 for 100 pounds.

Sack of flour $10 to $20 for a 50 to 80 pound sack. Makes a hell of a lot of bread.

We live in the greatest produce country in the world and people will still pay 100 to 500 times the amount of what the ingredient is in a boxed supermarket food. Why? No excuse to not eat well, in the USA, for a $100 a week or sometimes less.






[edit on 22-10-2007 by Realtruth]

At the time you had a perfect credit score, at 22 years old, that was the perfect time to leave the United States and denounce your citizenship. There was a time when I wouldn't have thought or said that. But I am convinced that many people remain in the U.S. because they cannot afford to leave. Folks go where money is to be made. Real money. Not this stuff called loans and credit. I"ve told folks that a loan is not money. A loan is a loan. Many times I'm not understood. Anyway, when you are free, truly free, you do not owe a soul any money of any amount. Unless you're rich or wealthy, one is on lockdown the moment they sign on the dotted line. If all of your debt are already paid off, I would still recommend that you leave. Find a country where you can still what you want to do and make a decent living. You might be surprised just how many there are. And you might also be surprised that the standards of living are much higher for folks who make the same wages that are considered not so good in the U.S. And in some countries, Italy for example, frown upon debt and long term contractual obligations. Italy generally is a pay as you go society. Anyway, the U.S. is not the whole ball of wax, and in many ways it's not the best ball of wax. Take your freedom and what little worth you have elsewhere. Find a solution that fits. The system in the U.S. tries to fit you to it. No, its not a free country. Its in debt and so are most of its population. Debt is slavery. Go, man. Go. Plus if you renounce your citizenship you rid yourself of the I.R.S.


[edit on 22-10-2007 by Areal51]

reply to post by Realtruth

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True.

But, I didn't use the card on the groceries out of necessity. I did it to build my credit for the future when I knew I would need it.

I would buy about 70 bucks in groceries (and sometimes gasoline) a month and then pay it off and I built my credit up quite nicely.

As I said, my ONLY problem came along as the result of two separate incidents that just happened to fall at a bad time.

And, as a result of that little problem, my credit hasn't recovered even after this length of time, even though I got that problem straightened out fairly quickly all things considered.


The whole point of this thread is how flawed the credit system is.

Everyday more and more things become dependent upon a credit score that really says NOTHING about you as far as your reliability or dependability to pay a debt.

It is not exactly easy to build a perfect credit score, yet, it is VERY VERY VERY VERY easy to get a terrible one. And, 7 times out of 10, the person's credit is hurt through financial hardships that couldn't have been forseen.

It's a real shame.

I personally would LOVE to go back to a collateral based loan system and smaller and more personal banking institutions. Things would be much better for the lower and middle class.

The credit card companies prey on the lower and middle class and their desire to have a few good things in life.

Most people that DO get into hardship with their credit as a result of overspending do so because they have NEVER had any of the good things in life.

They have struggled through the rat race their entire lives never to be rewarded with any of the finer things that life has to offer.

Then, along come the VIRAL marketing campaigns of the credit cards.

When someone has struggled for nothing their whole life, these cards and the empty promises of 0% interest and "No payments until" can be very seductive.

These poor people are seduced by the opportunity to JUST ONCE get a few things they enjoy without the worry of having to pay for them right now and then they end up paying for them the rest of their lives at the cost of everything they own and care for.


Anyone who can't find compassion for those people has a truly empty heart and is just asking for the karma to hit them like a truck.

If you don't believe that, try sending your children to a school where they are picked on relentlessly because their clothes don't have the right name brand on them or their shoes aren't marketed by the correct athlete.

Try going to job interview after job interview wearing the best clothing you have only to look bad sitting next to the guy in his thousand dollar suit.

Try working 60 hour weeks and still being scared everyday that your power is going to be cut off or your car not making it to work everyday because it's falling apart on you and you can't afford another.

Try having to live in a home in a violent and drug infested neighborhood because your job doesn't pay enough to afford anything better and having to keep your children on lockdown to protect them.

THEN tell me those credit cards don't look mighty appealing.





Jasn

EDIT: Corrected the mistake of my fingers getting ahead of me.

[edit on 22-10-2007 by SimiusDei]

reply to post by Areal51

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There are several problems with that.

1. I love my country, even if I don't love the crap that has been done to it.

2. I love my family far too much.

3. I have never been one to just run away.


Ahhh, if only the simple solutions were really simple.

In my opinion we are all slaves all in different colors, races, shapes and forms. Instead of accepting everybody and seeing how similar we all are, we live in a competitive society where everyone cares mostly about themselves and grow up to see how different we are from each other instead of the opposite. Money is the biggest tool of enslavement and when that is abolished we can truly experience some sort of peace of mind.

Thanks, jasn.

I understand what apc is trying to say about personal responsibility, i just think it's hard for people who haven't dealt with similar problems, to understand it. Everyone at ATS comes to the table with their own life experiences, which may or may not, match, and as a result, we often don't understand each other.