Ron Paul: Iran Attack On Within A Year

North Korea will not be attacked because it boarders China and Russia. How would those two countries react if America did something in their own back yard. North Korea with a handful of nukes Vs military action with China and/or Russia...which one is the safer choice

Hey I know.. maybe instead of fighting another war over oil and natural gas, we could actually help OURSELVES.

How much financial corruption is going on in Iraq right now? What "progress" has even been made? 12 billion + a month to be in Iraq and for what???

We still have tons of problems in our own country. People from Hurricane Katrina are STILL waiting for help. Our borders are wide open. Bridges are collapsing from disrepair. Yet for some reason it is more important to this administration to protect us from some hyped up threat.

Maybe its time the US says "hey.. we're done helping the world out, we're gonna help ourselves from now on".

As we're busy "spreadin' freedom" all over the world to those poor unchristian Moslem's (yes thats sarcasm), we're losing our own rights back home. As we're busy "rebuilding" Iraq, our own country is falling apart.

Wake up...

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Vanguard223

 

news.bbc.co.uk... - Kofi Annan
www.guardian.co.uk... - Richard Pearle!
newsfromrussia.com... - Attorney general of the UK at the time of invasion.

All these people concluded that the Iraq invasion was illegal, harldy lefties from little chicken websites, especcialy Richard Pearle!

As for Abu Graib, clearly defined as torture under Geneva conventions and international lawsen.wikipedia.org... If you want to demean the people of Iraq who were in those prisons go ahead, but you gotta wonder why people hate the U.S so much with people like you giving it such good PR.

And Hanoi, what's that got to do with anything? You can't start comparing torture and staing which is worse. Torture is torture full stop whether it is pain inflicting or solely to humiliate a people.

And as for the rights issue, i'm not going to argue with you about that as i do not have any details to hand, but i'm sure it's happening with the way this administration has treated your people and the rest of the world over the past 7 years.

[edit on 30-8-2007 by Peruvianmonk]

Funny, Germany, England and even France had the same intelligence at the time. I guess the CIA and "Evil America" mind controlled them, right?

If you equate hurting someone's feelings with pulling their fingernails out with pliers or beating them with rubber hoses, you are clearly lacking common sense.

So let me get this straight, you have no evidence that U.S. citizens are losing their rights but you're sure it's happening? .........okay.

What a joke.

So let me get this straight, you have no evidence that U.S. citizens are losing their rights but you're sure it's happening? .........okay.

Two words for you. Patriot Act. Examples?

The Patriot Act and the First Amendment
Violates the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech.

Violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy.

Creates a very serious risk that truly innocent individuals could be deported for association with political groups that the government later choos

The Patriot Act and the Fourth Amendment
Violates the Fourth Amendment by allowing foreign intelligence searches for criminal purposes without probable cause of crime.

Violates the Fourth Amendment by failing to provide timely notice to persons whose home has been searched. Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.

Violates the Fourth Amendment by allowing the government to seize records in intelligence and terrorism investigations without probable suspicion that the records pertain to a terrorist

The Patriot Act and the Fifth Amendment
Allows indefinite incarceration of persons without judicial review thereby denying due process and equal protection of law.

Creates a very serious risk that individuals could be deported for association with political groups that the government later chooses to regard as terrorist organizations.

To name a few....

reply to post by Vanguard223

Funny, Germany, England and even France had the same intelligence at the time. I guess the CIA and "Evil America" mind controlled them, right?

I would like you to prove this. As I recall Germany and France did not participate in this Illegal War based on lies. Lets see some links please.

If you equate hurting someone's feelings with pulling their fingernails out with pliers or beating them with rubber hoses, you are clearly lacking common sense.

Well according to this Linkthere was abuse/torture in Iraq. And this Link do ya see a trend??? Or are you so uh Conditioned with knee jerk responses that you can't see the forest for the trees

So let me get this straight, you have no evidence that U.S. citizens are losing their rights but you're sure it's happening? .........okay.

uh free speech zones and the list goes on....BUT

This thread is supposed to be about what Ron Paul said....I believe what he said, and Im really starting to believe in him as a future president...just imagine a president embracing the constitution rather than one that see it as just a piece of paper, or a hindrance to him waging war all over earth.

Can some one give me a hell yeah or what!!!

Well said DerekJR321

[edit on 30-8-2007 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 30-8-2007 by LDragonFire]

reply to post by Vanguard223


No evidence of citizens losing their rights?! Where have you been for the last 6 years?!

Here's a little piece of legislation that takes away many of our rights to privacy:
The Patriot Act

Detailed within are rules and regulations for the stripping the right to privacy from all Americans.

Here's a White House Manual that takes away our right to peacefully assemble and also our right to free speech.

While we're on Free Speech ... the Military Commisions Act of 2006 can be inturpreted to insinuate that any American could be an enemy combatant, thus a terrorist, if he voices opposition to the Occupation of Iraq. Also detailed within this document is the ability to take away our rights to an attorney and for a fair trial by a jury of our peers.

Should I gather more "proof"?

uh I meant lets give Ron Paul a hell yeah!!!.....

If you want to know more about Ron Paul visit this Link

this dude Rocks!!!! and Im Not a Republican at all

All of you posting links to or citing the Patriot Act as proof of loss of rights are fools.

Name one thing you did before 9/11 that you can't do now.

The Patriot Act is a tool for law enforcement agencies to go after terrorists. Allowing the FBI to investigate people based on their speech is NOT a violation of free speech. If the FBI has reason to believe someone is going to commit a terrorist act, based on their speech, they can investigate them.....and rightly so.

I'll try to compare it to something you liberals love to talk about so much. Hate speech. If I go out on the street and start yelling racial slurs against a particular race of people and threatening violence against them, I can be arrested and charged with a hate crime. Same thing.

The governement is not sitting around monitoring the phone calls of all 300 million Americans, looking to arrest people. That's not even possible. What they're doing is going on tips and past behaviors, or looking at associations, in order to pinpoint and monitor potential terrorists. I'm sorry, but a room full of Middle Eastern men sitting around in a basement discussing how they can obtain enough exposives to destroy a certain building IS NOT FREE SPEECH.

I don't even know why I'm trying to explain this to people, most of you are either blinded by your rabid, frothing at the mouth, hate for Bush or your contempt for America in general. Oh, and by the way, I don't like Bush either (I want him out) but the man has done SOME things right. Some of you are beyond irrational.

reply to post by Vanguard223


A fool?

Oh, now. Don't resort to childish name calling just because we provided the proof that you asked for.

The new security measures work on a "Flag" system. If there is suspect behaviour, you get a flag and it is examined more closely by other top level officials to be determined whether it is a viable flag.

1) surf the internet without fear that I would stumble upon a "terrorist sponsored" site and be flagged by the DHS.

2) talk on my cell phone about political issues with out fear that I would be flagged by the DHS as an enemy combatant because I don't support the war.

3) check out a library book on Islam without getting flagged as a possible "homeland threat" by the DHS.

Now, that I've provided you with your "one thing" that you asked for, what will you call me now? I can't wait to hear it!

[edit on 30-8-2007 by tyranny22]

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by Vanguard223

 

A fool?

Oh, now. Don't resort to childish name calling just because we provided the proof that you asked for.

The new security measures work on a "Flag" system. If there is suspect behaviour, you get a flag and it is examined more closely by other top level officials to be determined whether it is a viable flag.

1) surf the internet without fear that I would stumble upon a "terrorist sponsored" site and be flagged by the DHS.

2) talk on my cell phone about political issues with out fear that I would be flagged by the DHS as an enemy combatant because I don't support the war.

3) check out a library book on Islam without getting flagged as a possible "homeland threat" by the DHS.

Now, that I've provided you with your "one thing" that you asked for, what will you call me now? I can't wait to hear it!

[edit on 30-8-2007 by tyranny22]

You provided no evidence that the U.S. is using the Patriot Act in the way you are saying. You are only illustrating your paranoia of how the "big, bad U.S. government" could use it. We have checks and balances in this country to prevent the dooms day scenerios that you insist are happening but have no proof of. When you stop screaming that the sky is falling and decide to show me some real evidence that the U.S. government is oppressing it's people, I might start to take you seriously. Until then, you're just another conspiracy theorist.

Here's a novel idea for you. Don't aid or support terrorists and you'll have nothing to worry about. I'm going to excercise my freedom now and go to lunch.....I hope the FBI doesn't follow me and take note of me ordering "french" fries. Oh the humanity!

Originally posted by Vanguard223

I'll try to compare it to something you liberals love to talk about so much.

There is no place on ATS for political bickering. If you want to do that. You are welcome at Abovepolitics.com. And why you're at it, make a thread in which you can show why your president is not a liberal. Because in the opinion of some members like myself, he is a liberal.

Regardless of whether certain members want to bury their heads in the sand... the issue IS supposed to be about Ron Paul.

While I believe he is by far the best candidate, unfortunately the total black out, deception, out right LIES by the MSM in regards to Dr. Paul will undoubtedly block any chance this man has of a fair run at the White House.

Instead I truly believe we will be stuck with the two WORST possible choices for any real change in America come election time.

And with that said, nothing at all will change. We will get involved in Iran undoubtedly. We will still be stuck in the mud in Iraq with no end in sight. More soldiers will die for no reason.

In the end.. its all about money. Not safety... not terrorism.. not even oil. Money.

reply to post by Vanguard223


LMAO. Not another "If you're doing nothing wrong..." person. It's not about doing anything wrong. It's about having the right to use proper judgement to do as I please, as long as it doesn't affect other's rights.

I never claimed the government is oppressing the people. I just said they're taking away our rights — which I've properly demonstrated.

If the government continued to alter the constitution and revoke public rights at the rate that is has since 9/11, it would be approximately 16 years before no one in this country could own a gun or practice the religion of their choice – and that's if those were the very last Constitutional Rights that remained.

But, hey if I didn't have a firearm or want to be a Christian, I wouldn't have anything to worry about, I guess. No one really needs to hunt for food or pray anyway. Not when we have a McDonalds to spend our money at and a television alter to sit in front of every night.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by Vanguard223

I'll try to compare it to something you liberals love to talk about so much.

There is no place on ATS for political bickering. If you want to do that. You are welcome at Abovepolitics.com. And why you're at it, make a thread in which you can show why your president is not a liberal. Because in the opinion of some members like myself, he is a liberal.

Speaking of not allowing free speech....

But I agree....Bush is too liberal.

Originally posted by whargoul

Originally posted by Jaruseleh
I'm really starting to think we need another 9/11 to wake people up again. We've become complaicent to the point where we're ok with someone attacking us first. Frankly, it disgusts me.

Wow, just wow.

Hey I checked out your bands page... I was hoping to see you as someone a little bit older so that I could assume you knew what you were talking about. But, anyway, I hope you and your little friends like hiking because Iran is pretty mountainous. You are going to be drafted, but that shouldn't bother someone so into the war anyway.

It's funny how you cast such disdain on the people that are trying to save your life and sort the mess the world has become out.

hahahaha, how old do you think I am??? Let me just tell you that I already spent 4 years in the Air Force, and that was nearly a decade ago.

One thing I've noticed in everyone quoting me is that no one read past "we need another 9/11". My point is NOT that I want us to be attacked. My point is that we've become so complaicent that it's going to take another attack to wake us back up.

All I ask is that if you're going to try and tear me apart, at least read EVERYTHING I've said, and tear me apart based on that. This is exactly why I don't buy into any of the 9/11 conspiracies and what-not, people are just seeing what they want to see.

reply to post by Jaruseleh


Intelligence estimates have said that Iran is at best 10 years away from developing a nuclear weapon. Even if it's sooner, does this sound like a reasonable excuse to start another war?

The Iraq debacle is has streched our military thin and cost close to $500 billion (possibly more). Not to mention the implications of China and/or Russia getting involved.

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by Vanguard223

 

LMAO. Not another "If you're doing nothing wrong..." person. It's not about doing anything wrong. It's about having the right to use proper judgement to do as I please, as long as it doesn't affect other's rights.

As long as you ARE using proper judgement to do as you please, your rights have not been infringed. Again...please illustrate a single case...just one...where someone was excercising "proper judgement" and who was arrested. Just one.

I never claimed the government is oppressing the people. I just said they're taking away our rights — which I've properly demonstrated.

Again...what rights have you personally lost. What have you been harrassed for doing now that you could do freely before 9/11? The biggest impact you be able to cite is that it takes you longer to get through airport security. Big deal.

If the government continued to alter the constitution and revoke public rights at the rate that is has since 9/11, it would be approximately 16 years before no one in this country could own a gun or practice the religion of their choice – and that's if those were the very last Constitutional Rights that remained.

No one is altering the Constitution. It takes amendments and near acts of God to do that. If you want to insure that you'll be able to own a gun (which I do) and practice freedom of religion, you better start voting for conservatives, they're not the ones grabbing the guns and stiffling religious speech.

But, hey if I didn't have a firearm or want to be a Christian, I wouldn't have anything to worry about, I guess. No one really needs to hunt for food or pray anyway. Not when we have a McDonalds to spend our money at and a television alter to sit in front of every night.

You're right there, we all need to work to keep our freedoms. It's in my signature for God's sake. I'm just more for focusing on things that are actual threats to my freedom....like radical islam.

Intelligence estimates have said that Iran is at best 10 years away from developing a nuclear weapon. Even if it's sooner, does this sound like a reasonable excuse to start another war?

The Iraq debacle is has streched our military thin and cost close to $500 billion (possibly more). Not to mention the implications of China and/or Russia getting involved.

Our ground troops are stretched thin, yes. But I don't recall anywhere saying we were planning on invading Iran. I believe it said military strikes, or something similar. We are MORE than capable of striking them....

However, it looks like Iran is getting ready to cooperate on it's Uranium "works" so we'll see what happens...hopefully there'll be no need for military action.

[edit on 30-8-2007 by Jaruseleh]

reply to post by Jaruseleh


Let’s look at what's happened since 9/11:

A "War on Terrorism" was launched. Terrorism is a technique, a concept. Common sense should ask how a war can be launched on something intangible. It takes some brainwashing to do so.

We've invaded two countries. One of which had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

The Patriot Act, which shreds some of the most important parts of the Constitution was passed.

Tens of thousand of civilians have died in Iraq & Afghanistan along with 4,000 US Soldiers.

Hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted. Our children and our children's children will have us to thank for this.

We're not any safer.

Most important of all. No real investigation of 9/11 ever took place. The best thinking that defenders of the official story can do is label anyone who questions the official story a "conspiracy theorist" and refer to some have baked debunking jobs to back up their flimsy claims.

If you’re going to reply, please do so with relevant facts, and not talking points

reply to post by Vanguard223


I've already stated my case. If you fail to see the problem, then there must be no problem for you.

The same can be said for your case. Cite one incident when radical islam infringed upon your freedoms ... other than airport security.