The declared intent of the Iranian government is to do no more than other countries. Brazil and Argentina are developing enrichment facilities for their own civil nuclear electricity generation programmes - with greenhouses gases always in the news isn't nuclear the way of the future (again) ? Perhaps a dozen other countries have similar facilities or have cooperated in their development.

So why not Iran ?

Because no other country has perhaps such an appalling record of non cooperation, secrecy & concealment as Iran. For years they've breached every protocol and safeguard that the IAEA has laid down and to which every other country is subject. Combine that with the inflammatory rhetoric of the arch rabble rouser Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and it's hardly surprising diplomats the world over are exasperated. This developing crisis has been in the making for years and the main blame for that can be attributed to the Iranian government. And also to those western governments, of years gone by, which have encouraged the Iranian authorities to develop their civil reactor programme.

It was only just over 30 years ago that the administration of President Ford was actively encouraging the Iranians to buy an “off the shelf “ enrichment facility from the USA. And European governments sanctioned private industry to start constructing the two incomplete reactors at Bushehr. American government hypocrisy on the subject is really grating. Pakistan, a military dictatorship and no more than a heartbeat away from utter anarchy, is allowed to develop enrichment facilities and to construct its own nuclear bomb – with none of the international pressure to which Iran is currently subject – and despite the fact the Pakistani military has within its ranks individuals sympathetic to the extremist Islamic agenda. Heck, Osama Bin Laden is believed to have on occasion used that country as a safe haven !

Always quietly in the background is Israel. Our governments are jumping through hoops because the Israelis won't tolerate a nuclear armed Iran under any circumstances whatsoever. And given the opportunity won't hesitate to take out every Iranian nuclear facility their pilots can locate. We're being set up for an allied attack against Iran. According to our masters it's the lesser of 3 evils, the 1st being a nuclear armed Iran and the 2nd being an Israeli pre-emptive strike. The possibility that the Iranians genuinely wish to develop their own nuclear electricity generation programme is routinely dismissed in the corridors of power. Ahmadinejad has seen to that. He's this years bogey man we're all told to hate. He is our very own Emmanuel Goldstein and it's his own fecklessness which allows our masters to portray him in such terms.

It's the same old same old. He who is our friend today is our enemy tomorrow. Oceania vs. Eurasia.
Call it whatever you like. It keeps corrupt politicos in power and keeps us all under control.

I wonder sometimes if we're nothing but pawns on a board.

Originally posted by deltaboy
So if Americans and the U.S. govt. cannot afford to buy anymore, then China cannot continue to sell to a country that has no money. There is no other country like America, there is only one America. Do you expect Europe to be like America and start buying Chinese goods quickly and massively?

The chinese are now able to buy their own goods, as are the Koreans, Taiwanese, etc. There are now more middle class chinese than middle class americans. If you left the swamp and visited these countries, it would be a big shock to your supremacist mindset.

As for their only being one USA, thank god for that

Originally posted by fweshcawfee
Interesting, and I had to laugh when I read this part:

During a press conference, Mr Ahmadinejad said the US president was a "wicked, selfish and arrogant" leader who has abused the UN Security Council in a push to stop Iran's nuclear programme.

Excuse my dry sense of humor but I think they should put a billboard in front of the U.N. saying something like this:

"This place is periodically occupied exclusively by George W. Bush, if you see any representatives here of any nations other than America it is only an illusion done via camera tricks."

Why not do it? Everyone seems to be of the opinion that any decisions which take place in the U.N. are a direct extension of Bush and that no other nations have a say-so in anything whatsoever.

That is the most dumbassed statement i have ever read sorry to say that but i guess your spouting you prereq liberal proproganda,The U.N is a Obsolete orgnanization that should have been shut down year's ago that may countries have signed away thier sovereignty so they could have U.N protection,that is why the U.N hardly favors americans because we dont sign treaties and the such that would require our country to expose ourselves and our liberties and if you have done any research other then what you have found from moveon.org you will find several countries with human rights violations sit on the U.N security council and also you would see that many countries are prepared to act against Iran if they take up a verifiable nuclear weapon's program and China and Russia are prepared to take action against Iran as well and last time i checked China wasnt one of our allies. in retrospect make some informed statements rather then flame with some anti-bush reterect.

The answer is to turn all surveilance services the U.N. has at Iran and watch them closely. A preemptive strike would result in, as others here have said, a catastrophic world war — one that would have a devestating effect on our world's environment. If the nuclear weapons don't wipe out mankind, the resulting climate change will.

A strike should not occur unless Iran strikes first. We have to come to terms with Iran being a nuclear state. I think they have to be given a chance to use the resource in a productive manner. It's a large responsibility, but we've got to go on good faith and secure peace in the region. If they can be reasoned with to respect this new power source and sign treaties and the NPT and not to threaten their neighbors (Israel) with any weapons that they may develope, I don't see a problem.

After all, even Pakistan has the bomb and hasn't used it in a hostile manner. I think all nuclear nations should be coerced into signing the NPT. We have to recognize that they need to protect themselves so that some capitalist nation doesn't invaded and conquer them in the name of oil revenues, freedom or saftey.

Would we still be occupying Iraq if they had nuclear weapons prior to invasion?

Originally posted by zeroeffect
That is the most dumbassed statement i have ever read

Not to rain on your parade or anything since you're having such a great time bashing me and lashing out... but nothing I said contradicts your own feelings. Translation: You misinterpreted every word I said.

The "nuclear" lie continues ....

Dont believe the "threats" about countries having nuclear weapons. Thats including all the "dubious" countries such as Pakistan and India - let alone Iran.

The U.S has for MANY a year been "practicing" with their "UFO" technology at taking out ALL nuclear missiles in transit. And they have it down to perfection.

All this rubbish about (name bad guys here) having nuclear weapons is a smoke screen. The U.S rules the skies. Make no mistake. Since the inception of the Atom bomb, the U.S has had "other" technology that makes the nuclear issue a non issue. That is why the U.S never had any concerns about so called "enemies" having nuclear missiles. They had that supposed threat covered from day one. Since its inception, it has been nothing more than a tool used for fear.
The "big bad ultimate destruction bomb" to use YOU to allow THEM the freedom to go about setting up future plans.

Dig deeper into the black hole, not everything is as it seems.

There is not a country on this planet that could launch a nuclear strike and be successful. Dont believe me?

/3ypsc9

Originally posted by fweshcawfee

Originally posted by zeroeffect
That is the most dumbassed statement i have ever read

Not to rain on your parade or anything since you're having such a great time bashing me and lashing out... but nothing I said contradicts your own feelings. Translation: You misinterpreted every word I said.

there wasnt a whole lot to misinterpret,your statement spoke for itself in which i responded in kind and yes i did enjoy bashing you i made pancake's to celebrate

I guess I am not sure if I would want Iran to have Nuclear Power. They have the right to develope it as any other country has the right. What they want to do with it is another thing. I guess if I had a base over there in Iraq, and I wanted to take IRANS Oil, It would not be a good thing for me as they could protect themselves. It would then be a problem because I built this base to take from Iran, Iraq and Syria. It has to be Oil beacause the way they run their Government is no problem for us. Other countries are much futher away from Democracy than Iran. Iraq is no closer to Democracy now than it was when we went in.

I just think of the Kids when a war starts. Who protects them when bombs go off. I think of a Mother's Inocent Boy who wanted to a be Man and protect his country only to be sent to another country for a Oil Agenda. Big money is being made with this war at the expense of your children. And our Kids will pay for this war in the future. Somebody has too, War is not free. Who stands to make money off of this war? Why are we paying professional soldiers and who is paying them. I'm talking about BLACKWATER, not your Kids. Blackwater is not fighting along side your kids. They have there own agenda. When it comes down to it if the money was traced it would lead to the OIL CARTEL.

I still haven't made my mind up on what really is going on. There is so much propaganda out there and people read in the news a topic and ALL NEWS IS FILTERED BY THE PENTAGON. It is there to promote there agenda. To promote war, because if we did not have war, they would not be there. There would be no need for them. If there is no threat their dollars get cut back. I would say Halaburton is doing fine on making money.

I'm a little confused also. We have had the Nuclear Bomb since the 40s. That is almost 70 years ago. Would you not think we had something that would make Nuclear obsolete? I guess I just need to stand back away from people who tell me how to think and figure it out for myself. I feel someone is not being straight forward and telling me the truth. I don't think we are in Iraq, Iran or Syria to sell Democracy. So what are we really there for? So why did we go to Aphganastan? To hunt terrorist or to build a oil line? We all know we were had on that. It was a big lie.

We are not really looking for Bin Laden, but someone who looks like him will be drug up about time for the elections. He is CIA which is an Arm of the MI6. Why do you think they always block the FBI? Just asking a few questions in my own mind. There are folks on here more intelligent than me. I would like to hear some of the answers from you guys as I am here to learn from Intelligent Beings with an open mind. I like it when the authorities are questioned. We are here to keep them in line as they work for us. We pay them with our tax dollars. We have a right to ask questions. And if I ask it does not make me unpatriotic as our country daily has the Constitution erroded. Daily, more rights are taken away from us with Executive Orders. Our jobs are taken away from us and sent to other countries, our borders are left open, for anybody to come over and take advantage of us. Crimes is up because they allow thugs with guns to come in. Our Educational System has went down the tubes, Our Goverment is a spending machine that is not held to accountability. We don't really chose who will be President, they chose them for us. Only the ones they want get to be Televised. I guess the next President will be Hillary. I thought we already had enough of that crap before. Was it not Bill who bombed Bin Laden's aspirin factory that started all this? He really was a fine example getting BJs in the Whitehouse. I am sorry if that last statement was to explicite. I am not sure who reads this. If the admin want to edit it please do. I am looking for a President with integrity, truthful, has moral standards, and is not on the take. But I guess that is asking for to much.

Lets think about this one:

Mexican + Colombian cartels certainly use and purchase american made weapons. Is it that the US government is directly supplying them? Probably not. So, illegal flow of weapons happen all over the world as well as the US borders. Don't be fooled, just look at your own back yard before we criticize others.

IllglImmgnt.

This is a great topic and I'm learning a lot from all of you. I'm not trying to derail the thread much, but I'm curious to learn if we head to head with Iran, like most of you I feel things can get messy fast. Once the cat's out of the bag, there may be no stopping a full scale war. If this does in fact happen, how soon do you think the US Government will re-instate the draft? Do you think that within a couple of months of war with Iran the draft will begin?

Originally posted by RogerT
The chinese are now able to buy their own goods, as are the Koreans, Taiwanese, etc. There are now more middle class chinese than middle class americans. If you left the swamp and visited these countries, it would be a big shock to your supremacist mindset.

As for their only being one USA, thank god for that

I can see you are eluded by the obvious Mr.T. Who will pick up Americas slack? What will Europe do once (theoretically speaking of course)they lose there largest trading partner (the US)? Not to mention chinas largest customer just so happens to be america. Do you see where Im getting at? Theres alot more to it then you think. This world economy we live in today is very interdependent. If the world lost the country with single largest economy (the foundation of the world economy) what happens to the rest of the interdependent world economy? Like a set of domino's, it all falls down.

Let me give my opinion on this.... again..

The intention and purpose of the U.S. government to go into a war with Iran is to suffer defeat and humiliation. Defeat and Humiliation. The U.S. is to lose any good reputation and credibility it has left so it can be punished. The world community will cry for it's punishment. Perhaps some U.S. citizens as well. The reason why this will happen is to get the United States into the North American Union with the least resistance as possible. People around the world will be applauding that last act. This is what Bush is told to do by his bosses who will have beaten that hurdle; any dissenting U.S. citizens (like lots of ATSers) because by then they will be in the minority of minorities.

We will be another step closer to the NWO.

To Recap:

U.S. government attacks Iran
Thinly stretched U.S. army suffers another humiliating vietnam like defeat.
World population and some part of the U.S. population will call for the disbanding or collapse of the U.S.
U.S. will be assimilated into N.A.U. with the blessing of the vast majority of the world and the U.S. population.

That's my opinion.

Hey Bush your boring now!! We don't care about your fighting talk, you can't touch Iran, Why don't you try! We dare you, go to war with Iran...Lets see how you do!! Bush is boring..Just trying to avert the flak he's getting at home...Hey Bush your pathetic, even your own people hate you!! There not falling for your fear tactics no more, your people are awake and they see you for what you are.

The Dollar will collapse hello Amero you watch...

Right on target SuperMod I'm with you on that.