Iran Hangs 30 people Over 'U.S. Plots'

[Mod Edit: Completely off topic - Jak]

[edit on 22/8/07 by JAK]

Originally posted by Muaddib
What does the U.S. death penalty, or the war in Iraq, or the U.S. human right records have to do with the Iranian regime hanging people which the Iranian regime claimed were plotting a soft revolution?....

Quite alot actually, because if you want to take the moral highground and criticse Iran for what it does within its own borders then it helps to actually have it, rather than come at it from the skewed perspective of saying "what we do is right, so thats ok, but what they do is wrong".

Perhaps you shouldn't be responding to this thread at all since you are British, and your country has "trully" invaded countries, opressed people around the world, and your country doesn't have a clean "human Rights Record either"......

No arguments from me there. It doesn't. I'm not proud of it.

Should we derail this thread to see other countries "human rights record", or "the death penalty", or any of the other off topic generalized comments other members have made?....

If you want. See where it gets you - I shan't be contributing to that one.

I also wonder what your comment on "warmongers" on this thread was all about.....

Its about what I read regularly on ATS, where I see people openly advocating attacking Iran for various reasons, or speculating when the attack will happen.

or what your comments about the present U.S. administration have to do with these hangings...

The present US administration has a hostile foreign policy towards Iran, does it not?

how about you apologize for dragging this thread off topic alongside other members. Your country has no "clean record" and until recently was still invading and causing mass murders in northern Ireland........ So you shouldn't be making any comments about the United States....

And here you go off the wall, and lose the plot and really show that - in this case - you have no idea what you are talking about, especially when you come out with this...

Are any in your family members in the military, or any of your friends?..... If so they participated in the opression of people in Ireland for centuries, and are/were soldiers in an Army which murdered hundreds of thousands in Ireland alone....

and then this...

Not to mention the fact that it was your country which opressed the American colonies, and your country was the one who taught the Native Americans on how to scalp people since the Brittish soldiers were known to scalp Native American men, women and kids before the Native Americans began doing the same..... Your country opressed what was to become the United States until our forefathers fought for the Independence of the U.S....

Really Muaddib, you excelled yourself. You must have been frothing at the mouth by the time you finished that. I loved the bold emphasis.

How do you like my "generalized comments" about your country?....

Actually I laughed at what you've written and your ignorance of the subject matters you bought up. Maybe one day, hopefully, when you've finished nitpicking points that don't suit your argument you'll educate yourself on the subject matters.

Heres how it stands, Muaddib.

Whether you like it or not, the Bush Administration has completely destabilised the Middle East region at present because of the invasion of Iraq and the opening of Pandora's Box there coupled with the unequivocal support of Israel with regard to the Palestinian issue and in particular last years Israeli incursion into Lebanon. Its a current event. Its not 50 years past, its not 100 years past, its right here, right now.

And after the folly of Iraq, the attention has turned to Iran. And people are looking at the US through a magnifying glass, hoping that the Bush administration doesn't make the same stupid mistakes again.

It also means that the focus of the worlds media, and those who read it, are on Iran and the US.

There are an awful lot of people out there who will persecute others on the grounds of race and religion and cultural differences on both sides and therefore everything about those issues is going to be debated, chewed over and probably regurgitated a few times, and the hypocrisy on all sides is going to be dragged out into the open, and exposed. Its a nasty business. Deal with it.

The very fact that this subject is being debated here on ATS is because of the current Bush administrations actions in the Middle East. Its being debated because - as I stated above - Iran is the current US bogeyman. its also being debated because, as others have pointed out, the US - and the media at present - simply chooses to ignore similar things that may happen in countries that it considers to be allies.

Its ALL linked. Like it or not. And every time a similar subject comes up the whole argument will start again.

Heres the real kicker. You don't actually know if the people executed in the original story actually were "traitors" working with US intelligence agents to undermine the government in Iran or not. You can speculate all you want, and you can drag out all kinds of information about who gets executed in Iran, but the simple fact is that you don't know. None of us do, and none of us probably ever will.

[edit on 22/0807/07 by neformore]

It point out the flaws and hypocrisy of your own country does not automatically mean that you hate it Muaddib... far from it. That is a lie you right wingers like to throw around like a monkey does its crap.

As long as we have such a large percentage of our population imprisoned and still execute, we really have no room to criticize others... what is so hard to understand about that?

As for your bias against Arabs and Muslims in general... all one has to do is read your previous threads on the subject for it to be obvious. I have read you deny that Islam ever contributed anything and that its civilization was "stolen" and then there was that thread that claimed that Iran was making Jews wear distinctive marks or clothing like the Nazis did and you persisted even after it was proven you were wrong. There are others as well and if I get really bored today I will go through your threads and copy them for you. Fortunately I rarely get bored enough to want to read your tirades.

You may not make blatantly bigoted comments about Arabs and Islam but your attitude comes through nonetheless.

Oh your rant about Britain on here really is over the top even for you... I can just see the foam and spittle splattering against your monitor as you type.

You know they have shots for rabies these days Muaddib, there is really no need to suffer.

Originally posted by grover
It point out the flaws and hypocrisy of your own country does not automatically mean that you hate it Muaddib... far from it. That is a lie you right wingers like to throw around like a monkey does its crap.

Oh yes it does....you would rather see this country be overrun by Islamic extremists, than fight them because you have shown that everytime someone says anything bad about Islamic extremism you claim that person is prejudiced... Everytime.....

And please don't make any comments about religion because you hate Christianism.... I am not a Christian, I don't hate Islam nor Muslim people, but is it a lie that Mohammed did the things that are even written in the Koran and other Muslim texts?.... Is it a lie that Muslim extremists murder even their own people, if they are Moderate Muslims by the hundreds of thousands as in the case of Sudan?..... or is it a lie the fact that over 2 million Christians were murdered in Sudan by the Islamic extremists?.....and that is just one country....

I guess Grover would like to change history, and have people love Muslim extremists otherwise he would claim that you are racist......

Originally posted by grover
As long as we have such a large percentage of our population imprisoned and still execute, we really have no room to criticize others... what is so hard to understand about that?

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that "we don't execute 16 year old girls for having a sharp mouth"?...or for "having a difference of opinion than the Iranian regime"?..... what's so hard to understand about that?........

Originally posted by grover
As for your bias against Arabs and Muslims in general... all one has to do is read your previous threads on the subject for it to be obvious.

Every statement i have made in the past I have corroborated with evidence, that does not make me anything of the lies you try to spread about me....

Originally posted by grover
Oh your rant about Britain on here really is over the top even for you... I can just see the foam and spittle splattering against your monitor as you type.

Actually I stated facts about Britain, and the British members really don't want me to start pointing out what they have been doing, even lately.... Are we also forgetting that British soldiers are also in Iraq and Afghanistan?....

Originally posted by grover
You know they have shots for rabies these days Muaddib, there is really no need to suffer.

Wow, now I am really hurt...

what should we say?

that we should outlaw iran, and declare them an evil terroristic regime, becuase they are hanging people they believe are involved with US elements attempting to overthrow their government?

christ sakes...

how many pages have just been wasted because some people cant accept others feelings?

IRan hung the people.
yeah it sucks, its bad... but the US has capital punishment you know?
So does a large amount of other countries.
and not 100% of them are all guilty.

wether some people like it or not, the article implies US involvement.
The US president is BUSH, so he IS A FACTOR in this debate.
The US is in the article, so THEY ARE IN THE DEBATE.

At present, the US is seraching for an excuse to go to war.
Akin to the IrAQ war, copious amounts of propoganda were put out about how bad and ruthless the Iraqi government were towards their citizens.

this STINKS of being the same damn piece of article.

The US is not responsible for every bad in the world,
But they sure arent doing anything to make peace or mend ties.
and by the looks of some peoples responses, you've been sucked in hook line and sinker about the morality of nations like Iran.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Actually I stated facts about Britain, and the British members really don't want me to start pointing out what they have been doing, even lately.... Are we also forgetting that British soldiers are also in Iraq and Afghanistan?....

Start a thread on it - lets see how you do.

And yes, we are in Iraq and Afghanistan. Doesn't make it right though, does it?

Originally posted by Muaddib
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that "we don't execute 16 year old girls for having a sharp mouth"?...or for "having a difference of opinion than the Iranian regime"?..... what's so hard to understand about that?........

well, you sure are passionate about hating iran and their justice system..

WHY are you all over this so hardcore? just curious...
can they not govern their own country how they see fit?
personally, i think it is insane but i also have no plans to go anywhere near iran...what happens in iran in the way of the country enforcing their laws is none of my business.
iran does hang girls for having a 'sharp mouth'.....so?

reply to post by Muaddib


Because I can look at my country with an unvarnished eye and see the both the good and bad (and there is a lot of both, as in all nations) does it automatically mean that I hate it? No far from it, no matter how much you froth and foam, that I do. Blind patriotism or nationalism is just that, blind.

I have no problem with ANY religion, nor do I hate Christianity.... what I do hate however are extremists of any religion, including Islam and Christianity.

Your assumptions about what I want or mean are just plain absurd and of no value whatsoever.

As for your corroborating evidences, only if they agree with YOUR viewpoint are they considered valid and legit.

You really have no crediblilty Muaddib, and on this thread, with your all but incoherent rants, have proved it.


[Mod Edit: Reply quote removed and referenced instead. Personal remarks removed. Please see Courtesy Is Mandatory - Jak]

[edit on 22/8/07 by JAK]



[edit on 22-8-2007 by grover]

Ok, let's all please stop with the snide remarks and personal comments.

Courtesy Is Mandatory

Jak

[Mod Edit: Completely off topic post has been removed. For those who need reminding the topic here is: Iran Hangs 30 people Over 'U.S. Plots' - Jak]


[edit on 23/8/07 by JAK]

didnt the mod just say stop with the cry baby act?



So Iran hung some people, whom were involved with US spies inside whom are trying to force regime change.


Iran hanging these people? Is Bad, but its not as if these people didnt know they were going to receive this punishment is it ?

'' hey, ill do what these US assets say, and try to convince my friends to force a overthrow of our government ''

This is why some of them were hanged is it not ?
No 16yr old chideren were hung in the article this thread is about....

this thread is about the hanging that took place

so lets look at it, from an unbiased view eh?
Do you think you can look at the original article?

Many executions have been carried out in public in an apparent bid to create a climate of intimidation while sending out uncompromising signals to the West.

1, they mention the west.
SO, Iran obviously feel a need to attmept to intimidate the west.
Why would Iran believe, they have to commit the ultimate sin ( murder ) if only to stifle the 'west', there must be some sort of 'happenings' underground for them to be pulling such imtimidation acts.

The executions have coincided with a crackdown on student activists and academics accused of trying to foment a 'soft revolution' with US support.

So, obviously there is a serious push within Iranian community, backed by US interests to force the changing of regime in Iran.
And fair enough, I mean... Iran is a government of a country.
The people dont like that government, because they are harsh.
So why dont these people just get a passport and go to another country, why do they have to side with the 'enemy' and commit treason?

ossein Kavousifar, 24, hanged for the murder of a hardline judge

This guy murdered someone, he wasnt a 16yr old girl...
Doesnt the US have a death pentalty also, if the crime is murder 1?

Public hangings are normally carried out sparingly in Iran and reserved for cases that have provoked public outrage, such as serial murders or child killings

Now im not saying Iran arent doing cruel and bad acts,
but as this article stateS ( The article the thread is about )
public executions are reserved for significant cases.

The executions come after the government launched a campaign targeting murderers, sex offenders, drug traffickers and others cast as a threat to 'social security'

this article CLEARLY states who's being hung here.
why are people badgering about childeren/girls being hung?
THat would be a bit of a derailment if you 'constantly' referred to girls and kids being hung...


Now Irans doing bad stuff.
yeah, no kidding, we all knew this.
But so is Saudi, China, the US, Korea.... jesus half the world is a bad bad place... I fault Iran for making such a public display of it but be serious here.


The USA is no better in its acts towards women and children.
Iran arent bombing the 'crap' out of a sovereign nation, half way around the world for corporate greed are they?

Iran have a right to nationalistic pride...
So does every nation.
And when the big bad bully, constantly hounds on you, sends in spies to force your people to push you out, makes outrageous, unsubstantiated claims about you, lines its armies up on your borders.. your going to do whats nessecary to ensure your people dont side with the enemy.

Some people here have NO IDEA ( LIKE ME ) How it must feel, to watch 2 neighbouring countries be invaded, occupied... then the invader/occupier staring straight at you with guns blazing in its background.

Irans not in the right, but sure as cow dung neither is the US in this whole mess called the middle east crisis.

Just remember, we have NO RIGHT To be in the middle east, dictating to nations like Iran.




[Mod Edit: Courtesy Is Mandatory - Jak]

[edit on 23/8/07 by JAK]

reply to post by Agit8dChop



How about you realize that when people discuss topics such as this one, it is not to "immediately invade/attack Iran or nuke it"...

I am not the one crying that this thread was written "to start a new war against Iran"....

How about puting military sanctions against Iran for doing this?... (by military sanctions I am talking about puting sanctions on military equipment, like it has been done to the Sudanese government...)

The same thing is being done to Darfur, or maybe the west shouldn't meddle with the affairs of the Sudanese government and the Arab militias who have been murdering people for similar reasons but in a larger scale...

Aparently every member who wanted to derail this topic wants to live in their own little safe world and to the hell with everybody else on Earth....

Who cares if there are actual dictators murdering people?...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
..............
So why dont these people just get a passport and go to another country, why do they have to side with the 'enemy' and commit treason?

It is their country.... Or are you suggesting that when things are happening in a country and people don't like it that people should just leave that country and move elsewhere?.... Perhaps the left should follow that advice huh?....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

ossein Kavousifar, 24, hanged for the murder of a hardline judge

This guy murdered someone, he wasnt a 16yr old girl...
Doesnt the US have a death pentalty also, if the crime is murder 1?

That's what they claimed, perhaps it is true but I showed other examples of people who were hanged just for the claims of the Iranian regime saying these people were "instigating a soft revolution"....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Now im not saying Iran arent doing cruel and bad acts,
but as this article stateS ( The article the thread is about )
public executions are reserved for significant cases.

Yeah such cases as "the claims of the Iranian regime that these people were instigating a soft revolution"....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
this article CLEARLY states who's being hung here.
why are people badgering about childeren/girls being hung?
THat would be a bit of a derailment if you 'constantly' referred to girls and kids being hung...

...because that is an example of the reasons for other executions in Iran, it shows people are being executed for no real reasons but just for the whims of the hardliners in Iran....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Now Irans doing bad stuff.
yeah, no kidding, we all knew this.
But so is Saudi, China, the US, Korea.... jesus half the world is a bad bad place... I fault Iran for making such a public display of it but be serious here.

There are military sanctions against China, although the EU wants to lift those sanctions... If such things do happen with the consent of the Saudi government then there should be military sanctions against them too...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The USA is no better in its acts towards women and children.
Iran arent bombing the 'crap' out of a sovereign nation, half way around the world for corporate greed are they?

First "your claim" which if we get to discuss what happens in Iraq the thread would be derailed...

Second, the regime of Iran is bombing Kurds in northern Iraq and they are sending help to destibilize Iraq... appart form the fact that they provide supplies and help to destibilize other regions...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Iran have a right to nationalistic pride...

.....several members around here would claim that's just "being a warmonger"....

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Just remember, we have NO RIGHT To be in the middle east, dictating to nations like Iran.

Tsk.... so did the regime of Iraq had the right to pursue to make terrorist attacks on U.S. soil?.....

That question can't be anwsered without talking about the truth of the Iraqi war.....but I guess your question will be allowed while I might get a warning for anwsering it....


[Mod Edit: Courtesy Is Mandatory - Jak]


[edit on 23/8/07 by JAK]

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Tsk.... so did the regime of Iraq had the right to pursue to make terrorist attacks on U.S. soil?.....

HUH? Iraq never attacked U.S. soil. Not even bush minor makes that sort of claim anymore... cheney still bangs that old pot but even he has been contradicted by his so-called boss.

Originally posted by Muaddib

How about puting military sanctions against Iran for doing this?...

^^^^why? cause you don't like the way they govern? are we supposed to 'control' them?


The same thing is being done to Darfur, or maybe the west shouldn't meddle with the affairs of the Sudanese government and the Arab militias who have been murdering people for similar reasons but in a larger scale...


^^^^now you got it.....we should not meddle. agreed, 100%

Aparently every member who wanted to derail this topic wants to live in their own little safe world and to the hell with everybody else on Earth....


^^^^i would not say that is exactly how i feel but it is close

Who cares if there are actual dictators murdering people?...

well, not me...^^^^^
i don't wish that on anyone but i feel like we should clean up our own yard before we start to meddle...

We have supported so many ruthless bloody regimes because it was in our "best interest" that we don't have a moral leg to stand on and the rest of the world knows it too. That not spin, that is a basic fact from the real politik played over the past century.

The world over might as well sit by and let all the horrors of the world go unpunished because of their mistakes and their past actions...

You can sit down, do nothing and try to justify "not doing anything" for past mistakes all you want, but men and women who do not try to make the world a better place and would rather sit and enjoy their rosy little world while not caring one whip what happens to other people around the world are nothing more than cowards and selfish imo...


[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
The world over might as well sit by and let all the horrors of the world go unpunished because of their mistakes and their past actions...

You can sit down, do nothing and try to justify "not doing anything" for past mistakes all you want, but men and women who do not try to make the world a better place and would rather sit and enjoy their rosy little world while not caring one whip what happens to other people around the world are nothing more than cowards and selfish imo...


[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Ive never heard anything more hypocritical in my life.
what a load of rubbish.

Good luck with your side, you just lost my attention.

Ah right... i guess you have never heard the phrase All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing....

That's what you and others have been calling for in this thread.

We might as well let the world go to hell "because all nations have made mistakes"....

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
The world over might as well sit by and let all the horrors of the world go unpunished because of their mistakes and their past actions...

You can sit down, do nothing and try to justify "not doing anything" for past mistakes all you want, but men and women who do not try to make the world a better place and would rather sit and enjoy their rosy little world while not caring one whip what happens to other people around the world are nothing more than cowards and selfish imo...


[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

it's not up to say th US to go around and punish people for the 'horrors' they commit. their 'horrors', their problem, IMO.
you want the US should be world police?

what are you doing to try and make a difference between getting far out on a message board?

please explain to me how i am a selfish coward cause i don't want to interfere in irans business?
i would love an explanation for that one....

i also like how people think a 300 year old country is gonna swoop in and clean this mess up. they have been going at it for like what, 1200 years?
we're dumb as hell to even get involved unless it is to protect the US directly.
thsat does not mean interfering when they hang a girl for her 'sharp tounge'...

sucks to live in iran i guess.
it's called the breaks

Nations have gotten together in the past to put military sanctions against other nations who do this sort of thing that is happening in Iran...

There are several nations who are right now sanctioned, the same thing should be done to Iran.

You are asking how is it that i see people who would rather not do anything and allow evil to triumph as being selfish and cowards?....

Well because you rather live in your world and ignore what happens to the rest of the world?....