Iran Hangs 30 people Over 'U.S. Plots'

reply to post by on_yur_6


That is not what I said or implied. I was not comparing one or the other I was saying that justice is what we say it is. Justice in the U.S. includes the death penalty... In the EU it does not etc. Its a pretty straight forward analogy I would think.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Hold on a second...

The NPC has, what, more than 150 members? One guy estimates 10,000 people executed, and it's to be taken as gospel? No indication of where he gets his numbers, no evidence, just one Chinese guy screaming in the wind.

...Yes hold on a second... First of all we are talking about a country that sees the death penalty as a state secret so they will try to keep it a secret, in which case someone who works for that same government would know a bit better what "the human right groups are able to gather from what little evidence they might be able to get...

Second of all since in China politics are taken a lot more serious than for example in the U.S. where people can make allegations and most often nothing happens to them, I kind of have to wonder what a government official in China would gain by lying, or exagerating...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I've seen some very high estimates, and I grant that they could be accurate, but I don't know and neither do you.

The fact that "executions in China are a state secret is a big hint that the numbers are much higher than what western groups are able to estimate.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
......... they're not going to go out on a limb and state 10,000 as fact since they can't verify the estimate of that one nutter.

Ah riiight...so now he is a "government nutter"?..... How ironic coming from someone posting on a "conspiracy board" about a country which has been and still is more opressive than any western nation....

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
If I were you, I would follow their example.

What would you do if I posted a link to a quote by one American academic stating that the US gov intentionally poisons the poor, to the tune of 10,000 a year? I think I know what your reaction would be...

There are some problems with your trying to find similarities between the U.S. government and the Chinese government, and the fallacy that you are trying to dismiss the statement of this Chinese government official by bringing up what "an American academic claims"....

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
It's not kosher if you only agree with wild, unsubstantiated statements that shore up your own position.

Just sayin'...

Except that in China there is an intoleracy towars "political dissent", as for example....

For the past 16 years, she and a few others who lost sons and daughters during the 1989 Tiananmen massacre have been calling on the government to apologise.

But in response, these women, known as the Tiananmen Mothers, have faced imprisonment, house-arrest, phone-tapping and constant surveillance.

Since late February this year, as Beijing prepared for the annual meeting of China's parliament, it was almost impossible to get through by telephone to any of the known dissidents inside China.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I wonder what a government official living in a country like China would gain from making false allegations and exagerating when we know what happens to political dissent in China........

Just saying.........................................................................

Originally posted by Boondock78

Big difference, you pretty much claim nothing should be done

Please do learn how to quote people properly. There is a system in ATS and ATSNN for responding to statements other people made instead of using signs.

Originally posted by Boondock78
.................
^^^^super cool and all, but i don't care about your havgins erved or not served...thats why i didn't ask that question

I guess we know now that you think that Americans serving in the U.S. military have not worked only to make the U.S. a better place but tried to make the world a better place.....

My guess is you haven't served.

muaddib

First of all we are talking about a country that sees the death penalty as a state secret so they will try to keep it a secret, in which case someone who works for that same government would know a bit better what "the human right groups are able to gather from what little evidence they might be able to get...

Second of all since in China politics are taken a lot more serious than for example in the U.S. where people can make allegations and most often nothing happens to them, I kind of have to wonder what a government official in China would gain by lying, or exagerating...

What does he have to gain? How about popular support? I don't know if he's telling the truth or not, as I see no basis for his claim. Does he even have a name, did I just read over it?

What I'm saying here is that if one voice among 150+ says something hard to believe (for me at least), without any support, it shouldn't be taken as gospel.

You didn't answer my earlier question - if some random academic or government stooge in my country, the USA, went anonymous and told Amnesty that the government poisons the poor to the tune of 10k a year, would you put stake in his/her claims? America has all kinds of state secrets, that doesn't in any way validate the words of a random 'whistleblower' saying something extraordinary.

If the death penalty and executions in China are a state secret then why do we know about them?

Originally posted by Muaddib
My guess is you haven't served.

you guessed right....have not served. won't serve.
hope my son don't join in.....

damn straight...

I bet the number of executions in Iran far surpasses the few done here in the states after those that have been convicted get years and years to appeal.

Iranian justice