Iran Hangs 30 people Over 'U.S. Plots'

Originally posted by Muaddib
Nations have gotten together in the past to put military sanctions against other nations who do this sort of thing that is happening in Iran...


^^ok..that makes it just?

There are several nations who are right now sanctioned, the same thing should be done to Iran.

^^^why? cause something they did or are doing touched a nerve?

You are asking how is it that i see people who would rather not do anything and allow evil to triumph as being selfish and cowards?....

Well because you rather live in your world and ignore what happens to the rest of the world?....

i also asked what you are doing to make a difference too.
i mean, are you a coward?

Buisness as usual over there so it won't even be a blip on the media's radar screen.

Now if a Western nation were to do something like this the uproar would be ridiculous. Gitmo causes many to foam at the mouth, just imagine if the gallows were put to use as in Iran.

Makes you wonder why it's accepted and ignored when Iran and other countries ruled by strict religion get away with what is no longer accepted in the rest of the civilized world?

Is the value of life and justice less in that region and this is accepted by the majority?

[edit on 23-8-2007 by on_yur_6]

reply to post by The_Coo


ok they hanged 30 out of the 100k that support the regime.

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Now if a Western nation were to do something like this the uproar would be ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Western nations" do execute criminals too. Infact, Texas reached its 400th execution yesterday.

I don't know, I guess people are ok with poisoning or electrocuting someone to death, but they're not ok with hanging.

Originally posted by Boondock78

i also asked what you are doing to make a difference too.
i mean, are you a coward?

....Me a coward?.... i am proposing to do something about it....which is a good start... i also vote instead of claiming "voting does nothing"... i do get involved... as for what other things i do, they are really none of your business, i am not about to publicize what I do, that in itself entails bragging....

Muaddib, you throw around the word hate, regarding those who disagree with you so much that you seem totally blind to the amount of hate that there is in your own posts.

Why is this? It certainly does not help your arguments any.

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Western nations" do execute criminals too. Infact, Texas reached its 400th execution yesterday.

I don't know, I guess people are ok with poisoning or electrocuting someone to death, but they're not ok with hanging.

Criminals...as in murderers and such.... We don't execute people for having a difference of opinion....

i guess some people are ok with executing people who have a difference of opinion, executing 16 year old girls etc....

Originally posted by Muaddib
Criminals...as in murderers and such.... We don't execute people for having a difference of opinion....

So the sex offenders, murderers, and drug traffickers aren't criminals in your book?

i guess some people are ok with executing people who have a difference of opinion, executing 16 year old girls etc....

Which people, and where in the article does it talk about this 16 year old girl that was hanged for having a difference of opinion?

Not only is Iran going to start this war, they are going to bury themselves with it. Take a look at this article which details the early advances Iran has made against the Kurds along the Iran-Iraq border:

www.worldtribune.com...

If this was already posted, I apologize, but its very relevant to this thread.

Originally posted by DJMessiah

So the sex offenders, murderers, and drug traffickers aren't criminals in your book?

Some might be sex offenders, but i also showed the fact that there are Iranian being executed for being political prisoners etc....

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Which people, and where in the article does it talk about this 16 year old girl that was hanged for having a difference of opinion?

I gave another article when Wyrdeone asked if he could be shown that if innocent people were hanged he would change his mind, not exactly his words but pretty much what he stated, hence i gave that link and example......

I also gave another example of an Iranian-American who was visiting her mom and she was arrested and accused of instigating a soft revolution.... The same claim other Iranians are being hanged for...

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Boondock78

i also asked what you are doing to make a difference too.
i mean, are you a coward?

....Me a coward?....

^^^i asked

ias for what other things i do, they are really none of your business, i am not about to publicize what I do, that in itself entails bragging....

so you don't do anything but start threads???
ok..cool. thats about what i do to

edit* it's not bragging cause i asked....see, it's polite to answer....especially since you see it as so very important to do things...just curious as to what you do yourself

[edit on 23-8-2007 by Boondock78]

Originally posted by Muaddib

i guess some people are ok with executing people who have a difference of opinion, executing 16 year old girls etc....

so long as it happens in a different country with their own laws, i'm about as 'ok with it' as one can get.....you know, what with all the crap going on in my own backyard, i am a bit preoccupied to worried about the trials of the common folk of iran

Originally posted by Boondock78
...........
so you don't do anything but start threads???
ok..cool. thats about what i do to

Big difference, you pretty much claim nothing should be done when we know this sort of thing happens in other countries, which entails isolationism, selfisnesh and cowardice because you alongise some others would rather do nothing to help others around the world.

As for your excuse claiming a lot of # happens in the U.S., well sorry but in the U.S. you don't get hanged for "having a sharp mouth"...or for "having a difference of opinion from the U.S. government".... That's simply a red herring which I am sure you will use now to derail the topic and start making claims about what happens in the U.S.

BTW, if your question was more along the lines of why aren't I a U.S. soldier, I was, i served in the Navy as aircrew AW.

Muaddib

Again, you seem to want to dismiss that Amnesty themselves provided a quote from one of China's senior officers who works in the highest state in China saying they execute around 10,000 people.....

Hold on a second...

The NPC has, what, more than 150 members? One guy estimates 10,000 people executed, and it's to be taken as gospel? No indication of where he gets his numbers, no evidence, just one Chinese guy screaming in the wind.

I've seen some very high estimates, and I grant that they could be accurate, but I don't know and neither do you.

I am not going to post it again since I have already done it twice explaining it yet somehow it seems that your eyes do not see those excerpts and where the informaiton comes from...

I see exactly where the information comes from - a member of the NPC. Amnesty includes his unsubstantiated statement as a high water mark, indicative of some of the larger estimates (after further investigation I've seen unsubstantiated estimates as high as 15,000!). Amnesty was only able to log 1770 executions that year - they're not going to go out on a limb and state 10,000 as fact since they can't verify the estimate of that one nutter.

If I were you, I would follow their example.

What would you do if I posted a link to a quote by one American academic stating that the US gov intentionally poisons the poor, to the tune of 10,000 a year? I think I know what your reaction would be...

It's not kosher if you only agree with wild, unsubstantiated statements that shore up your own position.

Just sayin'...

The whole issue in that particular case was about the 10,000 Chinese people being executed.... You have been shown where that figure comes from, yet it seems as if to you that figure, the excerpts and links given to back it up do not exist..... Which only shows your inability to acknowledge you were wrong.

I should have just smacked my head into a brick wall three or four dozen times and called it a day. :shk:

As I've said before - the 10,000 figure is not Amnesty - they reference it but only in passing. As far as the investigative wing of Amnesty has been able to determine, China executed 1770 people that year.

If you would have simply stated you were wrong this particular argument would have ended right there....

Sorry, I can't admit I'm wrong until it happens. Not for you, not for anyone else.

Prove me wrong on anything and I'll gladly genuflect, happy to have some of my own ignorance dispelled, but that hasn't happened here, no matter how many times you or your fan club say it has.

It is totally different for example to have the death penalty against known murderers, than having the death penalty for a 16 year old for having a sharp mouth....or being executed for having a difference of opinion from the regime of Iran....

I still haven't seen any evidence that having a difference of opinion gets you killed in Iran. There are Jewish communities, religious minority communities, ex-pat communities, and these groups have few issues with the law.

There's more to the story of the 16 year old than her sharp tongue, and you know it. There's nothing that justifies her execution, but there's a lot more to be said about that story.

And once again, since you missed it the last time, that never would have happened in a more reasonable area of the country. She had the miserable luck of living in one of the more repressive regions. You make it seem as though the entire country of Iran thinks and acts as one - this just isn't the case.

The fact that the Mullahs approved this execution is not surprising, since they were given the information on which they based their decision by the very people who wanted the girl dead - the judge and the corrupt moral police. The judge and the moral police needed this girl to die, or they would lose most/all of what little credibility they had.

I don't see how you or anyone else can draw conclusions about the nation of Iran using that one case. You should have noticed that the popular sentiment was quite different than the party line, in the wake of her execution...

Because i am a proponent of the death penalty against known murderers, and even rapists, doesn't mean I must agree with the death penalty of 16 year old girls whose only transition is "having a sharp mouth".... or having to agree with the death penalty of people's whose only transgression is having a different opinion than the regime in Iran....

You keep saying that people are executed for a difference of opinion, but that's a gross oversimplification and a disingenuous end-run around the issue of the rule of law. If I steal a car, and argue against the justification for the law when I get brought before a judge, I haven't got a chance. You could say I was jailed for a difference of opinion, but that wouldn't really be true, would it?

People are free to disagree as to what constitutes a capital crime, and they're free to disagree as to what constitutes a crime at all, but disagreeing with the law doesn't insulate you against it.

I'm not exactly opposed to the death penalty in extreme cases (rape, murder, child abuse, attempted murder, armed robbery...) - if a citizen doesn't appreciate society and won't moderate their behavior according to the needs of society, then they don't deserve to live in society. Let them live outside the walls, so to speak, if they want to act like that...

I would prefer exile, but there's nowhere left to put these people.

Originally posted by Muaddib

Big difference, you pretty much claim nothing should be done

^^^no, i didn't pretty much claim...i 'all the way' claimed that nothing should be done....it is not our place to tell them how to govern.....very, VERY simple.

As for your excuse claiming a lot of # happens in the U.S., well sorry but in the U.S. you don't get hanged for "having a sharp mouth"...or for "having a difference of opinion from the U.S. government"....

^^^thats why said it is 'the breaks' that they live there.....casue well, it is.
i sure wouldn't want to live there...and, i don't.
can't police the world, nor should we...
it is not a red herring.....we need to clean up our own yard before we go telling people what to do with theirs...bad crapp happens everywhere.....it's 'the breaks'

BTW, if your question was more along the lines of why aren't I a U.S. soldier, I was, i served in the Navy as aircrew AW.

^^^^super cool and all, but i don't care about your havgins erved or not served...thats why i didn't ask that question

Originally posted by DJMessiah

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Now if a Western nation were to do something like this the uproar would be ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Western nations" do execute criminals too. Infact, Texas reached its 400th execution yesterday.

I don't know, I guess people are ok with poisoning or electrocuting someone to death, but they're not ok with hanging.

After due process partner, and found guilty of murder. Just a bit different in this instance don't you think? As a matter of fact, those that have been found guilty of plotting to attack the USA were not given the death penalty.

There is a difference.

But what is due process? Each nation has its own standards. Saddam Hussein was automatically given an appeal after being sentenced to death but the death penality was carried out immediately after losing it even though he was still in the docket for other crimes.

And of course we all know that was a fair and just trial for which he could have actually been aquitted

The bush administration wants to cut steps from our due process to speed up executions making it more likely that there will be mistakes and an innocent person is executed... like that hasn't happened already.

This is of course coming from a man (bush minor) who smirked and mocked a person he ordered executed after they requested clemency from him as Texas governor.

In the long run there is no standard for justice, justice is what we say it is.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by grover]

reply to post by grover


I beg to differ. I'll take the justice system of the good ol USA any day to that of any Muslim nation. Innocent until proven guilty would mean a lot more if you find your the one with the noose around your neck.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by on_yur_6]

Originally posted by grover

In the long run there is no standard for justice, justice is what we say it is.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by grover]

thats a good post man.....the entire justice system of every country, what they(we) do or not do are mere 'laws' and actions invented by us.

in iran wherever this happened, if thats how it works, every now and again and lady gets the rope for having a 'sharp tongue' why are we supposed to geek out and start a movement?

what is it to us?
sure, it's warped for me to think anyone could get executed for that cause i know ful well that i can tell the judge to take a walk and i wouldn't get executed, but this is here.

here, 4 year olds get cuffed for riding their scooter on the sidewalk and 'mentally challenged' people get 2 in the chest for wielding scissors.
is iran supposed to trip out at these 'injustices'?

i don't personally agree with about 99% of the things that go on in foreign countries and i don't agree with about 99.999% of what goes on here....it is what is is though.

i have a very small, often unheard voice in reguards to the goings on in this country and there is enough to keep me occupied for a lifetime....
WHY should any of us worry/think/care about what happens over there?

i mean seriously....is our backyard not jacked up enough?
between religion, social issues, war, the economy, etc.....we are fubar and we are worried about execuations in iran...

seems silly to me.

i love to debate this stuf but thats as far as it goes....i think we need to keep our collective noses out of it...

Originally posted by on_yur_6
I beg to differ. I'll take the justice system of the good ol USA any day to that of any Muslim nation. Guilty until proven innocent would mean a lot more if you find your the one with the noose around your neck.

i agree that i would take thw US system over any muslim nation too but i don't for one second think it is innocent till proven guilty here.
i think it is guilty till proven innocent here as well, just if you're lucky you can get bailed out....

say you get accused of rape here in the states...

sure, according to the books you are innocent but innocent people get to not be in jail. you'd be sitting there waiting for trial...maybe waiting for months...on a rape charge, the community, the news, etc will have persecuted you long before trial starts.

even if you are found not guilty, you have already apent untold days in jail, monies on lawyers and as far as the world is concerned, you're 'the guy who raped that girl"