Satan is not Lucifer.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
reply to post by DarkStormCrow

 

You are dead on.................Nimrod.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Now........who is the man that is the future king of Babylon that is linked to Satan.

Nimrod? What? He's dead. On top of that Nimrod didnt do squat to Judah and Israel. The Hebrews didnt even exist yet when Nimrod lived.

One of the reasons the Sarim took authority over the nations was because of that idiot. In the non canonical Book of Jasher the Seventy Princes are the ones who Divide Humanity after the Tower of Babel event.

Nimrod is not Satan. Nimrod is dead.

Humans, I'll say it again Humans are violent, selfish, proud, and stupid. Nimrod acted on his own. He didnt need help from any spirit.

Quit blaming The Boogeyman. Humans dont need any help at being the most sick and psychotic creature upon the face of the earth. Take some responsiblity for Heavens or Humanity's Sake.

That excuse or defense wont help at all on Judgement Day. Humanity's struggle isnt about good and evil or some rebellious angel and some demons.

Its about US, about Our actions.

I can see it now. When the Day of the Lord comes people will be confronted with a G-d who is not Santa Claus, not a Hippie, or some Heavely Grandpa. Instead people will be Horrified, in denial. Theyll probably call G-d Satan as He lays waste to Cities and Nations across the Earth. It will not be pretty. There wont be any demons or angels to blame.
There will only be our Judgement and G-d's wrath Laying waste to the Earth.

If you dont like that idea, find a different deity. The G-d of Abraham is not Jolly or Trivial. If you want a deity who can be resisted and ignored go pick one of The Host of Heaven, Especially the Chiefs and Princes of Persia home of Ahura Mazda and Mithras.

there is NO death....just the transition/transmigration

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Tamborine man

To those who sincerely would like to know the true identity of He
who on Earth is known as Satan, the devil, Lucifer etc. etc.,
should click on the following link:


www.vandrermodlyset.dk...

In the transcendental world he was known as the eldest of the eldest,
but has requested that mankind now and in the future should know him
by the name of 'Ardor'.

Follow closely the advise given in the preface before reading his account,
and I'm sure the tolerant, kind and openminded of you, gladly will respect
this wish of his!



PS!
More detailed comments of this whole episode can be found in the book
"Questions and Answers" (first and second supplement to 'Toward the Light')
Which should be available in libraries or certain bookshops!

Please tell me your being sarcastic. If not you might as well go ahead and say he was Sauron and Emperor Palpatine too.

I am fairly open minded, but this boogeyman stuff has to stop.

Everytime I hear people say these insane things that are not in the Bible it makes me want to rip my hair out.

Satan is nothing, Nothing. He, It is powerless. G-d has complete and absolute control of Satan. There is no being, none that can rebel against G-d. You can have morons that dont listen to G-d and then G-d binds them like Azazel. These imprisoned and bound beings have no power, no influence. They are nothing.

Saying that somehow there is some being that can disregard G-d is Idolatry. You are taking away from G-d. Your implying that there is something out there that can resist Him. Nothing, absolutely nothing can resist G-d. To suggest otherwise is to say G-d is not G-d.

[edit on 22/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

Hi MikeboyUS,

You not only sound like a very violent man, but also gives the impression of being
totally intolerant and completely closed-minded.
Therefore, obviously, my post was not addressed to you, but to others with much
more courage, humanity and genuine curiosity.

You did not read what was refered to, and yet you judge!! You judge before you know
what you're judging! Now, that IS insanety.

In addition you are making things up that was neither said or implied. THAT, also is
sign of insanety.

The work I refered to is definitely not for you, my good man.
The work is only recommended to people not fearful of God and of the Light.

Again - it will only be of benefit to people who are more advanced, tolerant, kind,
loving and open-minded.

Very strange if no such people are to be found in this thread - but understandable so,
perhaps!!

__________________
What IS can never die

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I can see it now. When the Day of the Lord comes people will be confronted with a G-d who is not Santa Claus, not a Hippie, or some Heavely Grandpa.

And not even male!

YOU are not going to be happy with what you get, either - I guarantee it.

Neverthless, even though we can't always get what we want, God always gives us what we need.

Instead people will be Horrified, in denial. Theyll probably call G-d Satan as He lays waste to Cities and Nations across the Earth. It will not be pretty. There wont be any demons or angels to blame.
There will only be our Judgement and G-d's wrath Laying waste to the Earth.

No, dear, that is behind us all. WWI and WWII. We are now waiting for our expected end: PEACE.

For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Jeremiah 29:10-11

You still have a LOT of studying to do before you can speak with such authority.

reply to post by Tamborine man


Well, there's two, so far - you and i!!

Originally posted by queenannie38
there is NO death....just the transition/transmigration

What? There is no Biblical basis for that. The Biblical answer is Sheol. Endor ring a bell? No I'm not talking about Star Wars. You should really look at what Ecclesiastes says about death.

The Dead in Sheol Know nothing.

These verses pretty much deny any form of reincarnation/transmigration

"2. And I praise the dead who have already died, more than the living who are still alive.
3. And better than both of them is he who has not yet been, who has not seen the evil work that is done under the sun.

3. Should a man beget one hundred [children] and live many years, and he will have much throughout the days of his years, but his soul will not be sated from all the good, neither did he have burial. I said that the stillborn is better than he.
4. For he comes in vanity and goes in darkness, and in darkness his name is covered.

1. A [good] name is better than good oil, and the day of death than the day of one's birth.
2. It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of feasting, for that is the end of every man, and the living shall lay it to his heart.

3. This is the most evil in all that is done under the sun, that all have one occurrence, and also the heart of the children of men is full of evil, and there is madness in their heart in their lifetime, and after that they go to the dead.
5. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for their remembrance is forgotten.

10. Whatever your hand attains to do [as long as you are] with your strength, do; for there is neither deed nor reckoning, neither knowledge nor wisdom in the grave, where you are going.

Originally posted by Tamborine man

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Tamborine man

To those who sincerely would like to know the true identity of He
who on Earth is known as Satan, the devil, Lucifer etc. etc.,
should click on the following link:


www.vandrermodlyset.dk...

In the transcendental world he was known as the eldest of the eldest,
but has requested that mankind now and in the future should know him
by the name of 'Ardor'.

Follow closely the advise given in the preface before reading his account,
and I'm sure the tolerant, kind and openminded of you, gladly will respect
this wish of his!



PS!
More detailed comments of this whole episode can be found in the book
"Questions and Answers" (first and second supplement to 'Toward the Light')
Which should be available in libraries or certain bookshops!

Please tell me your being sarcastic. If not you might as well go ahead and say he was Sauron and Emperor Palpatine too.

I am fairly open minded, but this boogeyman stuff has to stop.

Everytime I hear people say these insane things that are not in the Bible it makes me want to rip my hair out.

Satan is nothing, Nothing. He, It is powerless. G-d has complete and absolute control of Satan. There is no being, none that can rebel against G-d. You can have morons that dont listen to G-d and then G-d binds them like Azazel. These imprisoned and bound beings have no power, no influence. They are nothing.

Saying that somehow there is some being that can disregard G-d is Idolatry. You are taking away from G-d. Your implying that there is something out there that can resist Him. Nothing, absolutely nothing can resist G-d. To suggest otherwise is to say G-d is not G-d.

[edit on 22/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

Hi MikeboyUS,

You not only sound like a very violent man, but also gives the impression of being
totally intolerant and completely closed-minded.
Therefore, obviously, my post was not addressed to you, but to others with much
more courage, humanity and genuine curiosity.

You did not read what was refered to, and yet you judge!! You judge before you know
what you're judging! Now, that IS insanety.

In addition you are making things up that was neither said or implied. THAT, also is
sign of insanety.

The work I refered to is definitely not for you, my good man.
The work is only recommended to people not fearful of God and of the Light.

Again - it will only be of benefit to people who are more advanced, tolerant, kind,
loving and open-minded.

Very strange if no such people are to be found in this thread - but understandable so,
perhaps!!

__________________
What IS can never die

Violent? Intolerant and Closed Minded?

I am not violent. I have not advocated violence against anyone who disagrees. I am not the Inquisition or a Jihadist.

I'm not intolerant of other people's faiths. In fact I believe people across the earth can believe what ever they want to believe. Follow what ever religion you want. In fact I dont threaten people of other faiths with hell.
I dont claim their gods are demons and their religions Satanic. I dont do those things at all.

I dont feel inclined to force my faith on others.

What I am doing is defending what is written. What is written? An Atheist from a literary point of view could see that these ideas are foreign to what is written. These ideas are alien to what is written. Thats my point. I am defending.

I am tired of people Hijacking the Bible. If they want to invent a new religion or write a new book thats fine, but leave Abraham and Israel out of it. Thats what I am against and who I am defending against. Hijacking and Hijackers.

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I can see it now. When the Day of the Lord comes people will be confronted with a G-d who is not Santa Claus, not a Hippie, or some Heavely Grandpa.

And not even male!

YOU are not going to be happy with what you get, either - I guarantee it.

Neverthless, even though we can't always get what we want, God always gives us what we need.

Instead people will be Horrified, in denial. Theyll probably call G-d Satan as He lays waste to Cities and Nations across the Earth. It will not be pretty. There wont be any demons or angels to blame.
There will only be our Judgement and G-d's wrath Laying waste to the Earth.

No, dear, that is behind us all. WWI and WWII. We are now waiting for our expected end: PEACE.

For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Jeremiah 29:10-11

You still have a LOT of studying to do before you can speak with such authority.

Of course G-d is not really male or even female. The usage of He is a standard practice. G-d is not a biological being with DNA and Chromosomes.

If whats written comes to pass there will be Peace, but only after the Earth has been devastated.

It looks like this is going to have to be to agree to disagree.

The thread is bordering on pure ideological clashes rather than objective debate.

I think I made my point about the King of Babylon fairly clear for objective readers.

I think there may even be a conspiratorial component as well. The reason I say that is the concept of Sin and the Devil are tools used to control and manipulate people. I would like to root out that conpiracy of control, but this is not the place to do so.

Rav todot, Thanks to those who participated.



[edit on 22/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

There exist of course a God infinitely above the g-d of the old testament, and it is
this God Jesus spoke of before he was thown out of the synagogue when he, as a
23 year old, for the first time stood forth in public.

Here is the true account of this event:



11. What were Jesus' own Thoughts Concerning his Mission on Earth?

In evil times he was born unto the Earth.
In evil times he grew up among mankind.
His thoughts were pure. His eye saw and his ear heard more than the feeble eyes and the deaf ears of human beings.
Love and compassion filled his heart. And his hands brought healing unto many.
But his countenance was sorrowful, for he bore the heaviest burden upon his shoulders.
And he was a stranger among human beings.
His eye saw much sin, many sorrows and much suffering.
And he heard people in the synagogue and in their homes cry unto their god to free them from the yoke of bondage and soon, soon to send them the Messiah, the promised, the long awaited One.
Slowly, God called to life the thought in the mind of Jesus that he was sent unto the Earth to deliver the people from the yoke of sin, and to cleanse their hearts of all impurity; that he was sent unto the Earth to teach the people to love one another, to strengthen their faith in their Heavenly Father.
Slowly the hope awoke in the heart of Jesus that he was the promised, the long awaited One.
But he dared not fully trust this hope.
And he pondered much on these thoughts.

Often he sat in the synagogue and studied the ancient Scriptures.
And he listened to the elders and to the scribes expounding the words.
But he found not the peace that he sought.
Long and deeply he studied the ancient Scriptures. And his heart became heavy, for the god of the Scriptures was often vengeful, and he was in no manner just.
But Jesus did not grow weary, he continued to seek until he faintly discerned a fond and gentle countenance - the God of Truth, of Love and of Compassion.
But the God of Truth and of the Light, whose countenance he discerned behind the Lord of wrath and vengeance, reminded him of the Father, whose image he bore within his heart.
And unto this Father he prayed fervently for help, for peace and for strength.
And God heard his prayer.
And He granted him strength, purity and peace of heart.
______________

continued in next post -

continued from last post:

But at the moment Jesus knew himself to be strengthened, he went unto the synagogue and stood forth, and he spoke against the elders and against the scribes.
And all who heard his words wondered greatly, for his words were clear, and he spoke with much authority.
But some of the words of Jesus were these: "Behold, I say unto you; the god you fear and worship is not the God of Truth but the God of Falsehood! For I say unto you: should you search with care in the ancient Scriptures, which speak of this your god, then would you see how weak and faltering he is. Now he wields the scourge of vengeance and retribution over the heads of your forefathers and drives his people into exile, then he calls them back. Now he bids their leaders, through the prophets, take arms against their neighbouring peoples to plunder, to pillage and to slay, and when thus he has raged for a time with might and power, then he repents of his actions, repents of the evil that he has done, and promises to temper his wrath, promises to show greater mercy. Truly, truly I say unto you: this is not the God of Truth, this is not the God of Justice!
"And what worship he craves of you!
"How many beasts does he not bid you slaughter before his countenance, that this sacrifice may please him! How much blood is not spilt upon his altar, that the scent thereof may rise unto the heavens and delight his heart!
"Behold, I ask of you: is it not said unto you in the Law of Moses that you should not kill one another? And how often has your god not spoken, through the prophets, unto your forefathers and bid them slay thousands upon thousands of their enemies? And has he not promised your forefathers to reward them for these evil deeds with much glory, many riches and much land! Truly, I say unto you: that God who says, thou shalt not kill and that god who bids you kill are not the same; for that god who bids you slay your enemies, he is of the evil, and you should shun him."
And Jesus continued to speak; for deep silence had fallen upon them all;
And he sought by the words of the Scriptures to show them the God of Love, of Truth and of the Light; the God who with perfect righteousness punishes the transgressions of mankind. He sought to show them the God whose embrace was open unto each repentant sinner, the true, the highest, the only God. He, who was not only the God of the Jewish people, but of all the world - yea, even the God of the heathen.
But when he fell silent, all were dismayed.
And the scribes spoke harsh and condemning words against him.
And the ruler of the temple stood forth and forbade him ever again to speak in the synagogue, yea, forbade him to expound the words of the Scriptures.
But Jesus answered him and said: "None has the power to bid me keep silent in my Father's House."
Then they all became yet more dismayed, and some cried: "Behold, the Evil One has possessed him and speaks through his mouth; hear how he profanes the holy and scorns the exalted."
And they sought to drive him out of the synagogue.
But Jesus answered them not. And he walked of his own accord out of his Father's House.
When the people in the city heard of that which had come to pass they wondered much, and many were angered.
But the parents of Jesus, the carpenter Joseph and his wife Mary, rebuked him sternly for the words that he had spoken in the synagogue against the elders and the scribes.
But Jesus answered them and said: "Know you not that I love you, and have I not sought to do your bidding? How much more, then, should I not seek to do the bidding of Him, who sent me? How much more, then, should I not love my Heavenly Father, love Him who reigns over all the Heavens?"
But they understood him not, and they grieved much, for they believed that his thoughts were confused.
______________

Accounts of this event can be found in the gospels, but they are all inaccurately
reported!

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by Tamborine man

 

Well, there's two, so far - you and i!!

You warm my heart dear QueenAnnie!

Thanks

reply to post by Tamborine man



I'm guessing your talking about Gnosticism, where my G-d is represented as an evil being and Demiurge.

Of course I'm going to disagree with that idea. The Suffering of our world is the work of Men in my view not Archons or a Demiurge. IMO Blaming a demiurge is almost as bad as blaming the devil or demons for the condition of the world and humanity. It places the responsiblity not on humanity and perpetuates the suffering. Discipline and Responsibility can change the Human condition.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

I think I made my point about the King of Babylon fairly clear for objective readers.

Mike,

You have made no such point. All that you have said is that Lucifer is not Satan because Lucifer is being described as a king of Babylon.

You never identified that king. If you understood Isaiah 14 you would see very clearly that the verses are referring to a man....The Antichrist. The Antichrist is being called a Babylonian king. If you knew your stuff you would know when the Antichist comes it will also be a second coming. That coming will be the second coming of Tammuz the reincarnated Nimrod.

He again we can see the ties to the Antichrist and Satan.

2 Thessalonians 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.Text

I didn't just pull Nimrods name out of the air. He is referred to in Isaiah 14 ...you just don't see it.

Lucifer is Satan appearing as an angel of light.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

I think I made my point about the King of Babylon fairly clear for objective readers.

Mike,

You have made no such point. All that you have said is that Lucifer is not Satan because Lucifer is being described as a king of Babylon.

You never identified that king. If you understood Isaiah 14 you would see very clearly that the verses are referring to a man....The Antichrist. The Antichrist is being called a Babylonian king. If you knew your stuff you would know when the Antichist comes it will also be a second coming. That coming will be the second coming of Tammuz the reincarnated Nimrod.

He again we can see the ties to the Antichrist and Satan.

2 Thessalonians 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.Text

I didn't just pull Nimrods name out of the air. He is referred to in Isaiah 14 ...you just don't see it.

Lucifer is Satan appearing as an angel of light.

Are you saying your objective?

I dont disagree that it may refer to some kind of Tyrant figure that some Christians would call the Antichrist. I wouldnt call him the Antichrist. That doesnt change the tyrannical nature of this king.

I just cant agree with Lucifer because he's a roman deity. I cant agree with Nimrod, he's dead and reincarnation simply does not exist in the Jewish Testament. I cant agree with Satan of Job either due to the nature of the being.

From my point of view everything in the Roman Testament is suspect, especially anything related to Paul.

Were just going to have to agree to disagree. I have shown my position and why I support that position.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

If whats written comes to pass there will be Peace, but only after the Earth has been devastated.

IT HAS!!!!!!!!!!

How much MORE devastation do you want? GOOD GOD!

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Tamborine man

 

I'm guessing your talking about Gnosticism, where my G-d is represented as an evil being and Demiurge.

Of course I'm going to disagree with that idea. The Suffering of our world is the work of Men in my view not Archons or a Demiurge. IMO Blaming a demiurge is almost as bad as blaming the devil or demons for the condition of the world and humanity. It places the responsiblity not on humanity and perpetuates the suffering. Discipline and Responsibility can change the Human condition.

It looks like you're disagreeing with your own guessing!!

To overcome this dilemma, all you have to do is guessing something that you yourself
can easily agree upon, and the problem is thereby smartly solved!

This also saves you a lot of needless and timewasting speculation!


_________________
What IS can never die





[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]

reply to post by MikeboydUS

Saddam Hussein was not the King of Babylon......The King of Tyre and the King of Babylon are two completely different Kings.

Saddam was the leader of Babylon/Iraq as Nebuchadnezzar was. The king of Tyre and the king of Babylon are two different kings but they are both "types" for the anti-christ/Satan. They instruct us on what is to come, just as Joshua and Joseph were both "types" for Jesus.

God instructed His children, through Jeremiah, that they were to go into captivity to the king of Babylon. He tells us that we also will go into captivity, at the end of days, to Satan. The question is will we fall for Satan's deceit, believing he is Christ, or will we wait for the true Christ?

Originally posted by Tamborine man

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Tamborine man

 

I'm guessing your talking about Gnosticism, where my G-d is represented as an evil being and Demiurge.

Of course I'm going to disagree with that idea. The Suffering of our world is the work of Men in my view not Archons or a Demiurge. IMO Blaming a demiurge is almost as bad as blaming the devil or demons for the condition of the world and humanity. It places the responsiblity not on humanity and perpetuates the suffering. Discipline and Responsibility can change the Human condition.

It looks like you're disagreeing with your own guessing!!

To overcome this dilemma, all you have to do is guessing something that you yourself
can easily agree upon, and the problem is thereby smartly solved!

This also saves you a lot of needless and timewasting speculation!


_________________
What IS can never die





[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]

You have completely confused me here. You'll have to explain what you mean by that. I have consistently said it was humanity's responsibility throughout this whole thread for the mess on earth. I have also said repeatedly that the human race was on trial. Where did I diverge from that?

reply to post by MikeboydUS

You do realize that quote from Revelations is Prophecy not History. We could also get into whether or not the book should be canon as well.

Yes, the quote was prophecy but scripture can be both. It was written to tell us what happened and what will happen:

1 Corinthians 10:11 - Now all these things happened unto them for
ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the
ends of the world are come.

So......scripture can be history for us while it was future for the writer yet at the same time, it can also be future for us still. An example would be Daniel 11. Verses 5-20 are history for us but future for Daniel. Verses 20 to the end are future yet to us.

And where did you get Seven Thousand from?

Rev.11:13 And the same hour there was a great earthquake, and the
tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven
thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God
of heaven.

Those 7,000 are the fallen angels. They were kicked out of heaven by Michael along with Satan:

Rev.12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought
against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels
8. And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9.And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil
and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the
earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan has 7,000 fallen angels and God has 7,000 of His elect:

Rom.11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved
to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the
image of Baal."

As the number seven means spiritual completness that could mean as many as God believes are the complete number, or it could be an actual number.