Satan is not Lucifer.

reply to post by queenannie38

Just as ‘I AM’ (I absolutely dislike the term ‘Yahweh’ – its not even a real word, really, and certainly not the name of the most high GOD) is GOD of gods, so do we read the similar idea of KING of kings. In the KJV, the term (rendered melek melek in the Hebrew and basileus basileus in the Greek) is found only 6 times:

Father's name "Yahveh", or YHVH, is locked into scripture.

Some teach, or believe that it is blashpheme to say the name of the Lord because of an incorrect understanding of Lev.24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the Name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death." The Sacred Name should be used in prayer and teaching:

Ps.9:10 And they that know Thy name will put their trust in Thee, for Thou, Lord has not forsaken them that seek Thee."

His name Yahveh, or YHVH is found in the Book of Esther. In Deu. 31:16-18, Yahveh declared His people would forsake Him and in His anger He would hide His face from them. This comes to pass in the Book of Esther. He did hide His face but He was guiding them secretly. As He was hidden so was His Sacred Name but it was still recorded in the Holy Word.

The Massorah (foot and side notes in the Heb. manuscripts) use a rubric to call attention to the hidden name. The acrostics are found in Esther 1:20, 5:4, 5:13, 7:5 and 7:7. As an example, in Esther 5:4...

Hebrew Converted to English

Y-abo Let-come
H-ammelek the-king
V-ehaman and-Haman
H-ayyam this-day

At least 3 of the ancient manuscripts show the acrostic letters written in bolder print to draw attention to them, showing the four consonant letter of the name YHVH. Four times YHVH was written and once the name Ehyeh, I AM That I AM. (Esther 7:5)

There is another acrostic, in Ps.96:11, which locks in His Sacred name in the original manuscripts.

Hebrew Converted to English

Y-ismehv Let-be-glad
H-ashshamayim the-heavens
V-ethagel and-let-rejoice
H-aarez the-earth

The information was from a study done by Arnold Murray


............Whirlwind

reply to post by queenannie38


In Ezekiel God says he will punish the House of Israel,and for this he uses Nebuchadnezzar??
If that is so,its not hard to understand why the Hebrews classed him as evil.
The title,King of Kings was not used by Assyrian monarchs,but by Persians.The empire was so vast that "client kings" were used to help rule in distant provinces.hence the title,King of Kings.
It has no connection with a man trying to be higher/better than God.It was used as such in the bible because the Jews were never going to write anything good about Nebuchadnezzar were they?

I challenge all of you to read this and THEN continue this discussion. This guy's understanding of Hebrew is excellent and the points he makes are valid from any perspective.

reply to post by queenannie38

I challenge all of you to read this and THEN continue this discussion. This guy's understanding of Hebrew is excellent and the points he makes are valid from any perspective

Thank you for that link, it was a very interesting read.

I never felt that the sons of God were men but I do believe they are angelic. As far as I can tell, this writer hasn't yet caused me to change that belief. I'll read it again later and spend more time with it.


.............Whirlwind

Originally posted by queenannie38
I challenge all of you to read this and THEN continue this discussion. This guy's understanding of Hebrew is excellent and the points he makes are valid from any perspective.

He has a very good site. Lots of good research on there. I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants a better understanding of whats actually written.

[edit on 10/9/07 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by queenannie38


Thanks for the link.I have read some of his works before now and its the kind of stuff i tell Christians to read,especially those that don't even know the bible has been translated from Hebrew!!

Thank you, jakyll and Mike~

It wasn't mine, originally.

Stormdancer777 first posted it here, on the previous page. I just repeated the suggestion.

Whirlwind - no one is trying to get you to change your understandings. But it is not good to not consider all possibilities in studying. Just think about the differences such as jakyll posted...there is a 2000-3000 year gap (give or take I AM ONLY assuming) as well as a full 180° in longitude.

Not only is the language simpler than English, also it is symbolic and tied in with the culture of those that spoke it, back in the day. There are a couple of good sites on-line which help to clarify how the Hebrew was originally written (and therefore intended).

Ancient Hebrew is another one. And Mila Yomit is good, too.

Originally posted by whirlwind
Father's name "Yahveh", or YHVH, is locked into scripture.

THAT is NOT a name. It means I AM THAT I AM.
When Moses hears it, the first time, it is:
I AM THAT I WILL BE.

Some teach, or believe that it is blashpheme to say the name of the Lord because of an incorrect understanding of Lev.24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the Name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death." The Sacred Name should be used in prayer and teaching:

Ps.9:10 And they that know Thy name will put their trust in Thee, for Thou, Lord has not forsaken them that seek Thee."

THEY that KNOW thy name.

Inferring that NOT ALL know the name. No where in the bible is God's name written (as God's name, that is).

His name Yahveh, or YHVH is found in the Book of Esther.

You mean NOT found, right?

Originally posted by jakyll
In Ezekiel God says he will punish the House of Israel,and for this he uses Nebuchadnezzar??

In Ezekiel AND Jeremiah. Perhaps Isaiah, too - I have to check.

If that is so, its not hard to understand why the Hebrews classed him as evil.

And everyone since then.
It fits in with the 'there-were-only-a-few-people-killed-in-WWII-that-REALLY-mattered'
#1 most-popular philosophy.

You see?

It has no connection with a man trying to be higher/better than God.

Not at all.

And consider this, just as a thought experiment:
There is only ONE story in the bible, told over and over and over again, with subtle variations and in parts.

It was used as such in the bible because the Jews were never going to write anything good about Nebuchadnezzar were they?

Of course not. Neither will Christians. But the overall story of Nebuchadnezzar is undeniable.

• Nebuchadnezzar obeyed God.
  
• Nebuchadnezzar had no reward for the service he did.
  
• God says to serve King Nebuchadnezzar and have peace.
  
• God sent Jonah to Nineveh (Assyria) and Nineveh repented!
  
• Nebuchadnezzar repented after '7 years' of SERIOUS persuasion.
  
  
• Nebuchadnezzar (and his son and his son's son) will inherit 'Egypt' as payment for defeating the King of Tyre.
  

reply to post by queenannie38

Whirlwind - no one is trying to get you to change your understandings. But it is not good to not consider all possibilities in studying. Just think about the differences such as jakyll posted...there is a 2000-3000 year gap (give or take I AM ONLY assuming) as well as a full 180° in longitude.

My response of, "as far as I can tell, this writer hasn't yet caused me to change that belief," was to his assertion that Sons of God are not angelic. As I intimated, I don't believe he addressed that claim.

In answer to "it is not good to not consider all possibilities", I try to. Some are relatively easy to discard while others require further study.

Again, thank you for the link (and I thank Stormdancer too).


........Whirlwind

reply to post by queenannie38

Originally posted by whirlwind
Father's name "Yahveh", or YHVH, is locked into scripture.

QA 38 - THAT is NOT a name. It means I AM THAT I AM.
When Moses hears it, the first time, it is:
I AM THAT I WILL BE.

WW - Some teach, or believe that it is blashpheme to say the name of the Lord because of an incorrect understanding of Lev.24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the Name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death." The Sacred Name should be used in prayer and teaching:

Ps.9:10 And they that know Thy name will put their trust in Thee, for Thou, Lord has not forsaken them that seek Thee."

QA 38 - THEY that KNOW thy name.

Inferring that NOT ALL know the name. No where in the bible is God's name written (as God's name, that is).

I believe that YHVH is His name and His name means, I AM THAT I AM.
All names have meanings so I don't understand your argument of YHVH not being a name because it means I AM.

WW - His name Yahveh, or YHVH is found in the Book of Esther.

QA 38 - You mean NOT found, right?

I loved that........terrific response.


.......Whirlwind

reply to post by whirlwind


As you may have noticed,i'm not a believer of "God Almighty."
But i think there are many writings that exist,like the link Queenannie gave,that are not there to change your mind,but are there to enforce the belief you already have.They give you greater understanding of your faith.I've always felt that if you want to understand the true teachings of God and Jesus,then you need to have an understanding of the Hebrew language.To show ignorance to it(and i don't just mean you,my friend)is to deny all that you seek!!
(an example.)The Book Of Enoch is wonderful,it has so much in it that people can discover,it has beautiful words and powerful imagery,yet so few christians know of its existance!! It is ignored because it is not part of the bible.but because it was "lost" for centuries,there is less chance of it being tampered with,and therefore it should contain more truth should it not??
This book contains many words of God himself,and if i,an atheist can find answers and beauty in it,then imagine what a true believer can find within its pages!!



[edit on 11-9-2007 by jakyll]

...........just want to say hello.............