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Satan is not Lucifer.

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posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 08:33 AM
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i JUST QUICKLY HAD TO POST A NOTE HERE WHEN I SAW THE TITLE....DID NOT GET 2 READ IT YET....WILL LATER.....IN A HURRY, BUT...
I KNOW THAT U WILL NOT BELIEVE ME....BUT I ACTUALLY WAS BLESSED ENOUGH TO HAVE BEEN SENT AN ANGEL 2 SAVE MY NEWBORN BABY FROM BEING TAKEN BY SOME SATANISTS I LIVED NEXT DOOR TO( BUT WAS OBLIVIOUS TO IT, AND HAD ACTUALLY BEEN TEASING THEM A-LOT WITH MY ROOMMATE)
tHEY HAD PLANNED 2 TAKE MY BABY SOON AFTER I GAVE BIRTH
BUT 3 DAYS B4 I HAD HER
HE APPEARED ....LONG STORY SHORT, HE ENDED UP PHYSICALLY STOPPING THEM FROM BREAKING IN- SETTING FIRE TO MY PORCH AND A FEW OTHER SCARY SCENES , AND FOUND A LADY OUT OF TOWN 2 COME PICK ME, MY KID AND MY 2 ROOMMATES UP 2 LIVE WITH HER ,ON THE MORNING AFTER HE TOLD ME WHO HE WAS AND HOW HE KNEW ALL THE LITTLE FACTS ABOUT US THAT NO ONE COULD HAVE KNOWN....SAID NOT 2 WORRY WHEN I SEE HIM DEAD IN THE MORNING....CUZ HE CANNOT DIE, BUT NEITHER CAN THE EVIL ONE HE BATTLES- THEY JUST POP IN & OUT OF PEOPLES LIVES,UNTIL THE END ...when he assured me , that they both know how they are to end....as if they were both doing it for God on purpose just to see who would stay loyal 2 God or not6..
Anyway...iu am late now....but my point was...
I met michael........he was hanging from a tree dead..... the police arrested the satanists and b4 they were at the police station -mikes body disappeared in front of at least 15-20 witnesses.....2 officers included...right after my 8 yr old daughter and 2 neighbor kids all screamed that mike just woke up , smiled & winked at them.....
This is listed as a body being stolen ..... not disappearing....but .........i KNOW
there is a lucifer......He was the angel of light and god's most beautiful & favored
HE got "2 big 4 his britches" and thought he'd take over.....banded a lot of angels and tried........but how can you overthrow your maker?
so mike(the #2....angel of war ...the dark angel....ironically)
was now up 2 the # 1 spot and kicked his brother out and it's been on ever since
he lost his title as the angel of light
hence the new name of satan
believe it or not6
thought i would throw it out soince i do not think many others could even know.....
ya know




renee
p.s. it happened in benicia in 1995................i have nothing 2 hide, it was the most intense, impossible trip i ever lived through...still try to find other explanations.......but .............well.







he was actually the scariest man i ever been near-radiating a stregnth that you felt way b4 you coud see him and was quite violent.....very unlike what i was led2 believe a;ll my life...........but then when he was with just me,my roomie & kids he was the most gentle soul.....even cryed alot...then at the drop of a hat could hear a noise and grab a knife or something deadly and jump out a window as he stuck it in a mans arm..2 seconds after .....anyway ................




posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Tamborine man

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Tamborine man
 



I'm guessing your talking about Gnosticism, where my G-d is represented as an evil being and Demiurge.

Of course I'm going to disagree with that idea. The Suffering of our world is the work of Men in my view not Archons or a Demiurge. IMO Blaming a demiurge is almost as bad as blaming the devil or demons for the condition of the world and humanity. It places the responsiblity not on humanity and perpetuates the suffering. Discipline and Responsibility can change the Human condition.



It looks like you're disagreeing with your own guessing!!

To overcome this dilemma, all you have to do is guessing something that you yourself
can easily agree upon, and the problem is thereby smartly solved!

This also saves you a lot of needless and timewasting speculation!


_________________
What IS can never die





[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]


You have completely confused me here. You'll have to explain what you mean by that. I have consistently said it was humanity's responsibility throughout this whole thread for the mess on earth. I have also said repeatedly that the human race was on trial. Where did I diverge from that?



First you make a guess re. talking about gnosticism etc. (which has nothing to do with
anything), whereupon you inform us that you disagree with what you have just been guessing about!

I agree that the way you express yourself here can sound rather confusing, but that was really the very reason I came up with an alternativ way, which would make it
easier for us to understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey!!
It might also help a bit if you actually relate your comments to the words that has been
spoken - like quoting passages and so forth - instead of using meaningless
guess-works, or put words in others mouth that has never been uttered or thought
about by this other person!!


__________________
What IS can never die







[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
As the number seven means spiritual completness that could mean as many as God believes are the complete number, or it could be an actual number.


7 means 'divine perfection' (remember that there are 7 spirits of God continually around the throne - these are the magistrates over creation)

Spiritual completeness can only be expressed by 0

ZERO

for it is a circle, perfect, unending, ever expanding yet remaining perfectly circular.

both empty and full

two zeros side by side represent heaven and earth (the NEW earth)



this is infinity



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by queenannie38
 



7 means 'divine perfection' (remember that there are 7 spirits of God continually around the throne - these are the magistrates over creation)


Thank you for that correction. I referred back to a book by Bullinger and it agrees in that the #7 is "spiritual perfection".

Your description of "0" was interesting and one I have not heard before. Please show me where the "7 spirits of God - magistrates over creation" are written as I haven't read about them, at least as far as I can remember.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Tamborine man

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by Tamborine man

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Tamborine man
 



I'm guessing your talking about Gnosticism, where my G-d is represented as an evil being and Demiurge.

Of course I'm going to disagree with that idea. The Suffering of our world is the work of Men in my view not Archons or a Demiurge. IMO Blaming a demiurge is almost as bad as blaming the devil or demons for the condition of the world and humanity. It places the responsiblity not on humanity and perpetuates the suffering. Discipline and Responsibility can change the Human condition.



It looks like you're disagreeing with your own guessing!!

To overcome this dilemma, all you have to do is guessing something that you yourself
can easily agree upon, and the problem is thereby smartly solved!

This also saves you a lot of needless and timewasting speculation!


_________________
What IS can never die





[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]


You have completely confused me here. You'll have to explain what you mean by that. I have consistently said it was humanity's responsibility throughout this whole thread for the mess on earth. I have also said repeatedly that the human race was on trial. Where did I diverge from that?



First you make a guess re. talking about gnosticism etc. (which has nothing to do with
anything), whereupon you inform us that you disagree with what you have just been guessing about!

I agree that the way you express yourself here can sound rather confusing, but that was really the very reason I came up with an alternativ way, which would make it
easier for us to understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey!!
It might also help a bit if you actually relate your comments to the words that has been
spoken - like quoting passages and so forth - instead of using meaningless
guess-works, or put words in others mouth that has never been uttered or thought
about by this other person!!


__________________
What IS can never die







[edit on 23-8-2007 by Tamborine man]


The reason I said Gnosticism was the because your statement about Jesus coming from a higher deity. This implies that my G-d is not the highest and its very reminscent of Gnosticisism which states the same.

This statement: " There exist of course a God infinitely above the g-d of the old testament"

That is the basis of Gnosticism.

For many Gnostics the idea of a a rebellious Satan or Devil is taken that he is a good guy. Some Gnostsics even believe that Jesus was the incarnated Satan on earth saying that would explain the morning star references.

So what is it you exactly believe? I already know you think the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is a false deity. You think Jesus was sent by a higher deity.

I agreed to disagree with Sun Matrix who hasnt attacked my faith. We disagree over the role and identity of Satan. You are telling me my G-d is a false one. That is a bit different.

So who do you think Satan is? A friend of Jesus?



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


You do realize that quote from Revelations is Prophecy not History. We could also get into whether or not the book should be canon as well.



Yes, the quote was prophecy but scripture can be both. It was written to tell us what happened and what will happen:

1 Corinthians 10:11 - Now all these things happened unto them for
ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the
ends of the world are come.

So......scripture can be history for us while it was future for the writer yet at the same time, it can also be future for us still. An example would be Daniel 11. Verses 5-20 are history for us but future for Daniel. Verses 20 to the end are future yet to us.


And where did you get Seven Thousand from?


Rev.11:13 And the same hour there was a great earthquake, and the
tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven
thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God
of heaven.

Those 7,000 are the fallen angels. They were kicked out of heaven by Michael along with Satan:

Rev.12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought
against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels
8. And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9.And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil
and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the
earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan has 7,000 fallen angels and God has 7,000 of His elect:

Rom.11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved
to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the
image of Baal."

As the number seven means spiritual completness that could mean as many as God believes are the complete number, or it could be an actual number.


So seven thousand men die in an earthquake? I'm missing the part where it says they are fallen angels.

You left out the part about the dragon drawing a third of the stars, Celestial beings, from heaven. I would think that the Host of Heaven numbers far beyond just 21,000.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 


I personally find Bullinger's writings to be of infinite value; and my initial understandings of the vibrational energies (what we call 'numbers') can from his excellent treatise on same.

But as time progressed in my life, my studies expanded to include the structure of creation as presented in the Tree of Life and this was significantly added to by personal revelations with which God rewarded me (it would seem) for my fervent desire to understand HIM and his workings.




John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 1:4

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Revelation 3:1

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Revelation 5:6


In the bible, the term 'head' is often used to mean 'Captain' and this gives us an idea of the order with which the heavens are structured. A hierarchy, most assume, is something which prefers some above others; but in reality, a hierarchy (perfectly ordered) is an absolute necessity to governmental perfection (which is represented by the combination number 12). And so each spirit is assigned to that duty for which it is best suited for (and indeed that which it was created for!)

We have, in the realm of 'I AM' (the self-existent), seven aspects named after Jehovah:

1. Jehovah-jireh
the Lord will provide
2. Jehovah-nissi
the Lord my banner
3. Jehovah-shalom
the Lord send peace
4. Jehovah-shammah
the Lord is there
5. Jehovah-tsidkenu
the Lord our righteousness
6. Jehovah-sabaoth
the Lord of the Host

Now, that is only 6, obviously - there is, for the seventh, the name that is on the thigh of the second rider of a white horse (Faithful and True) and this is the name above all names...the new name of our savior, and so I would list it as:

7. Jehovah Is-Real
the Lord of our Salvation

Because, ultimately, the name Jesus Christ is not a name at all but rather means:
the anointed of GOD who is appointed to save. The Holy One of IsReal! The LORD's Christ!



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
So who do you think Satan is? A friend of Jesus?


His twin brother.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by whirlwind
 


I forgot to mention the most obvious: the 7 are the archangels....

arch = architect

4 'hold up' creation (earth, wind, water, fire)
and
3 'support' mankind (body, soul, and mind)

the 'fifth element' is spirit and is also 'the salt of the earth.'

A pyramid has four corners and is structurally firm and nearly indestructible...but if there is an addition of a center column holding up the apex, then it IS invincible! This is salt/spirit.

[edit on 8/23/2007 by queenannie38]



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
So who do you think Satan is? A friend of Jesus?


His twin brother.


Are you familiar with Canaanite myth?

I'm not agreeing with what your saying but you might find this interesting.

In Canaanite myth El had two twin Sons.

One son was Shalem, the lord of peace and twilight. The City of Jerusalem was named for Shalem. It literally means City of Shalem.

His brother was Shaher, lord of dawn. Shaher is called the Father of the King of Babylon, Helel in Isaiah 14.

I'm not sure what to think of Canaanite myth but you might find that interesting.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Considering my posts, above, then if we can understand that the ‘anointed cherub which covers,’ in Ezekiel, is the ‘body’ and that ‘Heylel’ in Isaiah is ‘fire,’ think about the combination of God’s everlasting fire (which is his living spirit) combining with the human body!

Then man becomes immortal through the indwelling of the divine life which is holy fire.

This is the partaking of the tree of life.

But of course, both of these ‘angels’ had to be cast down into ‘hell’ (material-ville) in order to do man any good…and it was voluntary on both their parts…and act of supreme sacrifice and love.

These ancient truths have long been obscured in the confusion of language and translation compounded by the widespread variety of religion and culture. Which, of course, is directly attributed to the incident of the Tower of Babel!

And who built that Tower? Nimrod! Who was Nimrod’s descendant? Nebuchadnezzar!


Zechariah 4:
6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shouting, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.


Now, just as the word ‘babel’ means: confusion; mixture (same as Babylon) , the name ‘Zerubbabel’ means: a stranger at Babylon; dispersion of confusion and it comes from both the word ‘babel’ as well as the word ‘zerah’ which means ‘star.’

If Babel brought confusion, then the dispersion of that confusion is a tricky riddle which really means that that confusion is brought back into order. The dispersion of dispersion is non-dispersion!

The reason the Tower of Babel fell is the same reason Adam and Eve were evicted from the garden; there were MANY lessons to be experienced before we would be allowed to become mature images of our creator; creating in our own right – with intelligence, understanding, humility, and wisdom….

The builders of the Tower wanted to make a name for ‘themselves.’ But the end goal was that mankind would seek to make themselves extensions of God’s name and do all things for the glory therein.

Notice, Zerubbabel holds a plumbline - compare this to what John is given to do in Revelation and also Ezekiel in the book named the same...

The one who started the whole thing will be the one allowed to complete it.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Are you familiar with Canaanite myth?


I'm pretty much familiar with ALL mythos and the cultures from which they arose....

I see not just from one point of view but rather from the perspective of needing to align myself with none but only God and HIS truth...and what I have found to be true is that there are only differences in superficialities but the core of all things remain the same.

ONE story
ONE salvation
ONE race (the human race)
ONE GOD
ONE law (love)
ONE truth

ONE WORLD

Hear O IsReal the LORD your GOD is ONE



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Actually, Jerusalem means 'vision of peace.'

City is indicated by 'ir' or 'or' at the end of a word.

Shalemir or Shalemor would be 'city of peace.'



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Actually, Jerusalem means 'vision of peace.'

City is indicated by 'ir' or 'or' at the end of a word.

Shalemir or Shalemor would be 'city of peace.'


After researching what I thought meant City of Shalem it could mean about a dozen different things. Some ancient documents called the city Urushalem. The city's original name appears to be Shalem.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


It is important to remember that in the bible, many names were used as symbols and are not literally pointing to cities now in existence; because many of them, including the country named 'Israel' have been named such by men, not God.

Israel means 'who prevails with God.'
That is why the name was given to Jacob; he prevailed with God.

Nowadays, we must understand that the nation of Israel remains scattered worldwide and consists of any and every soul who 'prevails with God.'

Scriptural reference:


Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, you and your fellows who sit before you; for they are men of symbol.
Zechariah 3:8


(edited to correct misspelling)

[edit on 8/23/2007 by queenannie38]



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


It is important to remember that in the bible, many names were used as symbols and are not literally pointing to cities now in existence; because many of them, including the country named 'Israel' have been named such by men, not God.

Israel means 'who prevails with God.'
That is why the name was given to Jacob; he prevailed with God.

Nowadays, we must understand that the nation of Israel remains scattered worldwide and consists of any and every soul who 'prevails with God.'

Scriptural reference:


Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, you and your fellows who sit before you; for they are men of symbol.
Zechariah 3:8


(edited to correct misspelling)

[edit on 8/23/2007 by queenannie38]


Israel does not consists of souls of just anyone who prevails with G-d.

Israel was like you said Jacob, but also represented the Twelve Tribes from the Twelve Sons of Jacob. Israel later represented the kingdom North of Judah when civil war tore the Kingdom of Israel apart.

The Assyrian Empire conquered Israel and enslaved and exiled the Ten Tribes that dwelled in the Northern Kingdom. Today their descendents are scattered across the Near East.

Investigations have shown that a number of groups between India and Iraq have some Israelite connections. A number of those groups are now in the process of being processed back to the State of Israel.

Descendents of Jacob have been found from Kenya to Shanghai. There are even genetic markers present in a number of these people connecting them to Israelite tribes.

This is the fulfilment of prophecy.



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 05:38 PM
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No, you are confusing flesh with spirit....the common belief is as you say.

However, that is NOT the fulfillment of prophesy; if it were things would be a far sight different than they are.

Think about it.

We are continually warned not to teach the precepts of men under the guise of God's commandments.


For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9


AND


O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Romans 11:33


Remember:


For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.
Romans 9:15-16


'Israel' are those that keep the covenant with God - both gentiles and 'jews.'


Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9:24



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Romans 9:6



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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reply to post by MikeboydUS
 



So seven thousand men die in an earthquake? I'm missing the part where it says they are fallen angels.


Rev.12:9 tells us Satan and his angels were cast to earth while Rev.11:13 tells us how many there were.


You left out the part about the dragon drawing a third of the stars, Celestial beings, from heaven. I would think that the Host of Heaven numbers far beyond just 21,000.


Those are two different events. The fallen angels, the 7,000, are from this age. They are spoken of in Jude 6 and Genesis 6. They came to earth and mixed with daughters of Adam. The results were the Nephilim. Those giants were probably the souce of the mythological gods.

The "dragon drawing a third of the stars" references the first earth age, when Satan rebelled and took 1/3 of God's children with him. For that reason all souls must be born and go through this present second age to decide who we will follow - Satan or God. Peter and Paul both taught us about the first earth age. One example is found in:


11 Peter 5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6.Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7.But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men


He isn't speaking about Noah's flood there but a time in which the world perished. God destroyed it because of the rebellion of Satan and this present second age came about in Gen.1:2 when "the Spirit of God moved upon the face fo the waters."



posted on Aug, 23 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
No, you are confusing flesh with spirit....the common belief is as you say.

However, that is NOT the fulfillment of prophesy; if it were things would be a far sight different than they are.

Think about it.

We are continually warned not to teach the precepts of men under the guise of God's commandments.


For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Isaiah 55:8-9


AND


O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Romans 11:33


Remember:


For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.
Romans 9:15-16


'Israel' are those that keep the covenant with God - both gentiles and 'jews.'


Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Romans 9:24





I dont recognize anything from Paul of Tarsus as legitimate.

Do you realize what the Covenant is and what it stems from? If a Gentile follows the Torah and takes part in the Covenant that Gentile is in effect no longer a Gentile but a child of Israel.

Paul needed to go back and read Exodus before he made that statement about Moses in his letter to the Romans.

Why do people pray and worship a Semitic-Hebrew-Jewish G-d and then deny the Jewish part? What is that?

It would be like People worshipping Brahma and neglecting Dharma and Hindu culture.



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