Satan is not Lucifer.

reply to post by Sun Matrix


No, Isaiah 14 isn't about King Nebudchanezzer. He was a "type" of the anti-christ, or Satan. It is about Satan and one of his many names is king of Babylon. Another is "Lucifer, son of the morning" Is.14:12.

This 14th chapter of Isaiah should really hit home with many people as we have just experienced another "type" of the king of Babylon in Saddam Hussein.

22."For I will rise up against them, " saith the Lord of hosts, "and cut off
from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew," saith
the Lord.

The two sons and a nephew of Saddam Hussein were killed in 2004 in the Iraq/Babylon war.

14.I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most
High.'
15.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16.They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee,
saying, 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did
shake kingdoms;'

Just picture Saddam being pulled out of his spider hole, his "pit". That king of Babylon fell but there will be another and he won't be a "type" but the real Satan, Lucifer, anit-christ, death, accuser, serpent, king of Tyrus, king of Babylon, etc., etc., etc.

Originally posted by whirlwind

No, Isaiah 14 isn't about King Nebudchanezzer. He was a "type" of the anti-christ, or Satan. It is about Satan and one of his many names is king of Babylon. Another is "Lucifer, son of the morning" Is.14:12.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

I have no doubt that Lucifer is Satan appearing as an angel of light and that Lucifer is the counterfeit morning star..................But who is this man being discussed that is called the king of Babylon?



And hello queenie.....

Who made the earth to tremble and shook the kingdoms?

Moses. The first Thutmose III.

reply to post by Sun Matrix


"I have no doubt that Lucifer is Satan appearing as an angel of light and that Lucifer is the counterfeit morning star..................But who is this man being discussed that is called the king of Babylon?"

It's just another name for Satan. In Ezekiel 30:3 God tells us.... "For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen". From that we see that the subject is what will happen on the Day of The Lord.

He continues in (9) by telling us that .....In that day shall messengers go forth from Me in ships to make the careless Ethiopians afraid, and great pain shall come upon them, as in the day of Egypt: for, lo, it cometh.'.

So...At the time of the end God Himself sends messengers (angels - fallen angels?) in ships (flying ships?) and He warns us that (24)And I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon, and put My sword in his hand........(25)But I will strengthen the arms of the king of Babylon........

God is telling us that Satan, the king of Babylon of end times, is coming and that God allows it. Will we fall for the deceit and lies of Satan or will we know truth and wait for the true Christ to appear?

reply to post by whirlwind


The king of Babylon is clearly a man.............but which man.......which king is being discussed.

How many times have I seen Isaiah 14 brought up to prove that Satan is not Lucifer........he is a Babylonian king. BUT NO ONE CAN IDENTIFY THIS MAN.

Satan is Lucifer.........and the man being discussed is a Babylonian king.... which one?

"The king of Babylon is clearly a man.............but which man.......which king is being discussed.....How many times have I seen Isaiah 14 brought up to prove that Satan is not Lucifer........he is a Babylonian king. BUT NO ONE CAN IDENTIFY THIS MAN.....Satan is Lucifer.........and the man being discussed is a Babylonian king.... which one?"

Satan is Lucifer and Satan is the king of Babylon, as spoken about in Isaiah 14. The other kings of Babylon were types only leading to him.

A "man" is being discussed - Rev.13:18
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six
hundred threescore and six."

Satan is the "man being discussed". He is the king of Babylon of end times. One of the deciding factors, as found in Isaiah 14:15:

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Satan is the only one that has been condemned to the pit (there are also 7,000 fallen angels but he is the only named)

Rev.20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the
key to the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand.
2.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil,
and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
3.And cast him into the bottomless pit........

Is there no one who knows who the man being discussed in Isaiah 14 is?

Satan is Lucifer.........but who is the man?

King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon

reference to Book of Daniel 4:22-23 I think



[edit on 8/22/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


And you edited why?

Mainly to put the reference to Daniel in the post.

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


I saw your original response........It was partly correct.

Not sure if this is exactly correct I am not a biblical scholar

According to the Talmud and Torah
Nimrod was the first mighty ruler mentioned in the Torah. Human civilization centered around ancient Babylon in that time period, and Nimrod, king of Babylon (formerly known as Shinear and the land of the Chaldees), ruled with a mighty hand. Nimrod's arrogance knew no bounds. He was convinced that he was a god and he commanded that his subjects worship him. The root word of Nimrod, mered, means rebellion, which in his case was a rebellion against G-d, truth, spirituality and morality.

According to Kabbalah
Nimrod was reincarnated in the form of the mighty King Nebuchadnezzar, the fierce ruler of Babylon during the later time period of the first Temple. Babylon was again the center of civilization and its architectural masterpieces were the wonder of the ancient world.

The verse could refer to Nimrod/Gilgamesh or it could refer to Nebuchadnezzar.

Being the root of the name Nimrod means rebellion it might mean humanity as a whole with the spirit of Anti Christ.

If the spirit of rebellion ie Lucifer/ Satan/ the Devil inhabits men through history it could mean a king yet to come who is inhabited by the same spirit.

Of course I could be way off base and was just trying to answer the question

reply to post by DarkStormCrow


You are dead on.................Nimrod.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Now........who is the man that is the future king of Babylon that is linked to Satan.

I know.

Both the who and the person in the now.

“Babylon's first king, Nimrod, hated GOD, ruled the earth in tyranny, and was destroyed. Babylon's last king, Antichrist, will hate GOD, will rule
the earth in tyranny, and will be destroyed.”

quote is from the book Nimrod - The Rebellious Panther by Noel Smith

Seems to be reasonable conclusion to me



[edit on 8/22/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

[edit on 8/22/2007 by DarkStormCrow]

reply to post by Sun Matrix

Satan is Lucifer.........but who is the man?

Why do you believe they aren't the same? Satan is the man spoken of in Isaiah 14. He is the king of Babylon. He is Satan. He is the man. He isn't a hideous monster in a red suit with a pitch fork.

I rather see it this way having looked at various sources all day long.

Satan is The Tempter in the Garden, The Fallen Angel, The Accuser, The Dragon of Revelation an actual spiritual being.

O Lucifer, son of the morning is a descriptor of Nimrod/Gilgamesh/Nebuchadnezzar Kings of Babylon all, Men while under the influence of the rebellious spirit of Satan ie the spirit of Anti Christ.

Originally posted by Tamborine man

To those who sincerely would like to know the true identity of He
who on Earth is known as Satan, the devil, Lucifer etc. etc.,
should click on the following link:


www.vandrermodlyset.dk...

In the transcendental world he was known as the eldest of the eldest,
but has requested that mankind now and in the future should know him
by the name of 'Ardor'.

Follow closely the advise given in the preface before reading his account,
and I'm sure the tolerant, kind and openminded of you, gladly will respect
this wish of his!



PS!
More detailed comments of this whole episode can be found in the book
"Questions and Answers" (first and second supplement to 'Toward the Light')
Which should be available in libraries or certain bookshops!

Please tell me your being sarcastic. If not you might as well go ahead and say he was Sauron and Emperor Palpatine too.

I am fairly open minded, but this boogeyman stuff has to stop.

Everytime I hear people say these insane things that are not in the Bible it makes me want to rip my hair out.

Satan is nothing, Nothing. He, It is powerless. G-d has complete and absolute control of Satan. There is no being, none that can rebel against G-d. You can have morons that dont listen to G-d and then G-d binds them like Azazel. These imprisoned and bound beings have no power, no influence. They are nothing.

Saying that somehow there is some being that can disregard G-d is Idolatry. You are taking away from G-d. Your implying that there is something out there that can resist Him. Nothing, absolutely nothing can resist G-d. To suggest otherwise is to say G-d is not G-d.

[edit on 22/8/07 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by whirlwind
reply to post by Sun Matrix

 

No, Isaiah 14 isn't about King Nebudchanezzer. He was a "type" of the anti-christ, or Satan. It is about Satan and one of his many names is king of Babylon. Another is "Lucifer, son of the morning" Is.14:12.

This 14th chapter of Isaiah should really hit home with many people as we have just experienced another "type" of the king of Babylon in Saddam Hussein.

22."For I will rise up against them, " saith the Lord of hosts, "and cut off
from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew," saith
the Lord.

The two sons and a nephew of Saddam Hussein were killed in 2004 in the Iraq/Babylon war.

14.I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most
High.'
15.Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16.They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee,
saying, 'Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did
shake kingdoms;'

Just picture Saddam being pulled out of his spider hole, his "pit". That king of Babylon fell but there will be another and he won't be a "type" but the real Satan, Lucifer, anit-christ, death, accuser, serpent, king of Tyrus, king of Babylon, etc., etc., etc.

People are really blind to this. Something challenges someones whole belief system and rather than face the facts they continue deeper into unsubstantiated fictions. Memeplexes are really like viruses. People get infected with ideas and spread them like diseases.

Saddam Hussein was not the King of Babylon.

The King of Tyre and the King of Babylon are two completely different Kings.

Originally posted by whirlwind
"The king of Babylon is clearly a man.............but which man.......which king is being discussed.....How many times have I seen Isaiah 14 brought up to prove that Satan is not Lucifer........he is a Babylonian king. BUT NO ONE CAN IDENTIFY THIS MAN.....Satan is Lucifer.........and the man being discussed is a Babylonian king.... which one?"

Satan is Lucifer and Satan is the king of Babylon, as spoken about in Isaiah 14. The other kings of Babylon were types only leading to him.

A "man" is being discussed - Rev.13:18
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six
hundred threescore and six."

Satan is the "man being discussed". He is the king of Babylon of end times. One of the deciding factors, as found in Isaiah 14:15:

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Satan is the only one that has been condemned to the pit (there are also 7,000 fallen angels but he is the only named)

Rev.20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the
key to the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand.
2.And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil,
and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
3.And cast him into the bottomless pit........

You do realize that quote from Revelations is Prophecy not History. We could also get into whether or not the book should be canon as well.

And where did you get Seven Thousand from?